QB options for next year

[DJ]

Personally, I think McCarthy has Christian Ponder written all over him.

 

[flyerhawk]

My best friend is a huuuuuuge Michigan fan and he thinks he is at best, a game manager. Said he is probably a really good backup, but not a starter worthy of a 1st round pick.

NFL Scouts thought Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Brady Quinn, Joey Harrington, etc would be good.

Sure. There is no question that he comes with a lot of risk.

 

[DJ]

He wasn't going to but McCarthy should have returned to Michigan.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

He wasn't going to but McCarthy should have returned to Michigan.

A lot of people thought that one more year in College would improve. But with Harbaugh leaving and now that he has hype to be a top 5 overall (Vikings are apparently very interested and why the hell else would they trade with Houston so early?) he might as well go for the money alone lol. He's set for life. Plus if Michigan's program implodes without Harbaugh he could drop big time.

Again, I get why he's intriguing, for a team that can bench him for a year - which are teams drafting in the mid-late 1st WITH an established QB - or a team with a QB that is aging. Pittsburgh, LA Rams, NY Jets (assuming Rodgers plays), and... Seattle. I would also argue the 49ers who will start Purdy this year but then say buh-bye and let some other team trade for him (FT + trade) and pay the big cash and tank on a crappy team.

All those teams would give McCarthy a chance to bulk up some and work on the deficiencies in this game. But if Minnesota is taking him at #4 or #5... they're expecting an IMMEDIATE starter and I think it'll be a disaster. I guess the one good thing, O'Connell is an offensive minded and QB coach... so he can prob. get faster results than a defensive HC.

 

[kcden]

Who here would rather we gave up what we did for Howell vs. Giving up our 4th, 5th or a conditional 6th, next year for Fields?

I've been giving my bear fan friend shit all offseason about us giving them Geno and a 3rd for Fields, and he scoffed at it (to be fair, neither of us have any faith in Caleb Williams not being a bust).

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Who here would rather we gave up what we did for Howell vs. Giving up our 4th, 5th or a conditional 6th, next year for Fields?

I've been giving my bear fan friend shit all offseason about us giving them Geno and a 3rd for Fields, and he scoffed at it (to be fair, neither of us have any faith in Caleb Williams not being a bust).

If we'd give up a 3rd and Geno for Fields I would've shit my pants uncontrollably and died on the spot. I think the only way I was willing to take Fields was for a 7th rounder, WITH the expectation we'd find another QB for backup, because this is Trey Lance 2.0... and the only team that wanted to do that was Pittsburgh. Chicago's owner or GM or whatever saying they "Did that because they have Fields' best interest at heart and want him to succeed." My fuckin' ass. If someone offered a 3rd-6th this year they would've taken that no problem.

I have no problem with the Howell trade. It's not some miracle trade by any stretch, he needs a lot of work... but there's some good stuff there, and he fills the backup role CHEAPLY (critical component) for 2 years, not 1.... We've seen what Lock can do... it's not much. We've seen one year of Howell which was pretty abysmal, but he's 23 still... and wasn't coming into a great scenario by any stretch. The Bears (def. last year at least) had some decent talent on offense and an above average (albeit slightly) defense. Kmet, Moore, solid OL (at least interior)... okay RBs... and Fields still sucked ass, 3rd year of starting, in.

 

[kcden]

If we'd give up a 3rd and Geno for Fields I would've shit my pants uncontrollably and died on the spot. I think the only way I was willing to take Fields was for a 7th rounder... and the only team that wanted to do that was Pittsburgh. Chicago's owner or GM or whatever saying they "Did that because they have Fields' best interest at heart and want him to succeed." My fuckin' ass. If someone offered a 3rd-6th this year they would've taken that no problem.

I have no problem with the Howell trade. It's not some miracle trade by any stretch, he needs a lot of work... but there's some good stuff there, and he fills the backup role CHEAPLY (critical component) for 2 years, not 1.... We've seen what Lock can do... it's not much. We've seen one year of Howell which was pretty abysmal, but he's 23 still... and wasn't coming into a great scenario by any stretch.

You'd rather have Howell (zero upside) than Fields (still has immense upside... he's been in the worst QB situation in the league, since he's been in the league)? I would have been happy to give up 3+Geno, but I get not liking that, but rather taking the Howell trade than the Fields trade is fucking insane.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

You'd rather have Howell (zero upside) than Fields (still has immense upside... he's been in the worst QB situation in the league, since he's been in the league)? I would have been happy to give up 3+Geno, but I get not liking that, but rather taking the Howell trade than the Fields trade is fucking insane.

Yes. Fields is a RB playing QB. In 3 years he's shown zero improvement and while he can run he fumbles a lot too... At least Howell can get rid of the ball before the 3 second mark. Fields is running a Core 2 Duo processor...

Again, Fields, 7th. Which the Steelers did (basically anyway, a 2025 6th). There's a reason the Steelers could do that... because no other team wanted the guy. There was multiple teams (according to reports) that wanted Howell who reportedly has a great work ethic and is looking to improve. In 3 years Fields has done jack F all (with a decent 2022 Bears team) to become a better passer.

 

[kcden]

Yes. Fields is a RB playing QB. In 3 years he's shown zero improvement and while he can run he fumbles a lot too... At least Howell can get rid of the ball before the 3 second mark. Fields is running a Core 2 Duo processor...

Again, Fields, 7th. Which the Steelers did (basically anyway, a 2025 6th). There's a reason the Steelers could do that... because no other team wanted the guy. There was multiple teams (according to reports) that wanted Howell who reportedly has a great work ethic and is looking to improve. In 3 years Fields has done jack F all (with a decent 2022 Bears team) to become a better passer.

I'm going to assume that you've watched much less of Fields than I have. His OL's relative talent level his entire time in tge league has been 2 digits, starting with a 3 and he only had a competent receiver starting last year (and that receiver had a career year). We've already seen the best Howell can possibly be, and that guy backed Geno up the last two years.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm going to assume that you've watched much less of Fields than I have. His OL's relative talent level his entire time in tge league has been 2 digits, starting with a 3 and he only had a competent receiver starting last year (and that receiver had a career year). We've already seen the best Howell can possibly be, and that guy backed Geno up the last two years.

Who backed up Geno? You mean Lock? I agree Lock is not the answer and certainly not worth $5M... you think Fields is the answer? We certainly haven't seen what Howell can do entirely... we've definitely seen it from Fields.

Whatever, happy to eat crow if I'm wrong on Fields. You asked who I'd prefer, Howell over Fields. I don't want a QB who is slower than molasses to process the field and throw some of the worst passes in the game. He's had upside since he was drafted, and in 3 years of starting that upside is not there. Sure, maybe a different scene will help him. Clearly 31 other teams are glad to let one team try.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm going to assume that you've watched much less of Fields than I have. His OL's relative talent level his entire time in tge league has been 2 digits, starting with a 3 and he only had a competent receiver starting last year (and that receiver had a career year). We've already seen the best Howell can possibly be, and that guy backed Geno up the last two years.

We've already seen the best Howell can possibly be but we haven't seen the best that Fields can be? That's some weird reasoning right there.

 

[MrS]

You'd rather have Howell (zero upside) than Fields (still has immense upside... he's been in the worst QB situation in the league, since he's been in the league)? I would have been happy to give up 3+Geno, but I get not liking that, but rather taking the Howell trade than the Fields trade is fucking insane.

Im not seeing it. Fields is absolute trash and cant throw the ball accurately to save his life.
Howell was considered a potential #1 prospect for a few years before he fizzled out. I think Howell is far more likely to have upside
That said, i think we tank and draft a qb next year

 

[kcden]

We've already seen the best Howell can possibly be but we haven't seen the best that Fields can be? That's some weird reasoning right there.

Yes, IMO, Howell's a career backup. Fields could absolutely be a star; he could also continue to underperform and be shit, but I've paid a lot of attention to him (due to fantasy purposes) and the idea that he can't process the field and is horribly inaccurate is just flat wrong. Give him a decent OL and coaching staff and he's got a chance to be special. The fact that it only cost Pitt a future 6th for that chance is damn near criminal.

 

[seattlefan75]

I trying to clarify what you mean actually ( or your point). You said QBs that slide are likely not good and you mentioned Levis as a example. So I assume that means a QB that slides to pick 16 is likely not good and the Seahawks should pass. Is that right?

For this draft what I am saying is that I believe picks 1-3 will probably be QBs. I am looking at little things for example the Giants signing Drew Lock which tells me they don't like what's left on the board after the first 3 picks same goes for the Falcons which is why they paid Kirk Cousins a ton of money. If Minny, NO, and Denver whom seem to need a QB all pass I really don't think using our 1st on a QB would be the right move and in my opinion QBs falling and getting passed up like that usually don't pan out. Will Levis didn't seem all that great to me in his rookie debut.

 

[seattlefan75]

Ok, now I am not really sure if you have a salient point because I certainly never said "every" or even most QBs picked after rnd 1 are successful in the NFL. It's a mixed bag, as it is with QBs drafted at the top of rnd 1. When there's a crop of QBs as deep as it is this year, not getting taken in the top 15 picks isn't some huge referendum on that player's talent or NFL potential. That's my point.

Then I guess we have different opinions. To me if a QB has even a hint of being a very capable NFL starter he would not last past 15 especially this year when there are like 9 of those 15 teams ahead of the hawks that could use a QB.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes, IMO, Howell's a career backup. Fields could absolutely be a star; he could also continue to underperform and be shit, but I've paid a lot of attention to him (due to fantasy purposes) and the idea that he can't process the field and is horribly inaccurate is just flat wrong. Give him a decent OL and coaching staff and he's got a chance to be special. The fact that it only cost Pitt a future 6th for that chance is damn near criminal.

I think a lot of fantasy players have a wildly overstated value for Fields. He is entering his 4th season and his best completion percentage is 61%. He has 38 fumbles in 40 games. He gets hurt a lot because he runs the ball so much.

Howell has only played one season and is 2 years younger than Fields. He is also under contract for 2 more years. Fields has one year left on his contract.

 

[JMR]

I do think that drafting the 5th or 6th QB available is more problematic than drafting the 2nd or 3rd. You are definitely fighting against the historical odds when you do that.

Most years? For sure. But this QB crop is way deeper than most years, and the 5th or 6th QB isn't much different in talent vs 2nd or 3rd. Most of the time, the 6th QB goes off the board in the 3rd or 4th round. It might happen in the 1st round or even by pick 15 this year... but if it doesn't, I am not so sure we should conclude it's because the 5th/6th QBs have some critical fault.

 

[JMR]

Then I guess we have different opinions. To me if a QB has even a hint of being a very capable NFL starter he would not last past 15 especially this year when there are like 9 of those 15 teams ahead of the hawks that could use a QB.

I do think there is a chance 6 QBs could go in the 1st 15 picks. That would be a historical precedent, but I think it's possible due to the amount of talent at that position in this class. But at the same time, the volume of very talented QBs in the same draft also makes it more like some of that talent will be available later than it would be in an average year when only 3 QBs go in rnd 1. In a normal year you're getting someone like Mason Rudolph, Kyle Trask, or Ryan Finley if you draft the 6th QB, and you probably took them in round 4. This year, you're likely getting Penix or Bo Nix, who would be the top QBs in many other draft classes.

 

[kcden]

I think a lot of fantasy players have a wildly overstated value for Fields. He is entering his 4th season and his best completion percentage is 61%. He has 38 fumbles in 40 games. He gets hurt a lot because he runs the ball so much.

Howell has only played one season and is 2 years younger than Fields. He is also under contract for 2 more years. Fields has one year left on his contract.

To be clear, my opinion of him is not based on his fantasy value; I watched a lot of him over the past 2 years because of fantasy. I think he has much more going for him than the "he's just an RB playing QB" bullshit that some people like to spout, largely based on how obvious it is, when watching him and the Bears, how terrible their Offensive Line is. I see a guy who can read the field and throw with accuracy when he's not immediately running for his life.

 

[flyerhawk]

To be clear, my opinion of him is not based on his fantasy value; I watched a lot of him over the past 2 years because of fantasy. I think he has much more going for him than the "he's just an RB playing QB" bullshit that some people like to spout, largely based on how obvious it is, when watching him and the Bears, how terrible their Offensive Line is. I see a guy who can read the field and throw with accuracy when he's not immediately running for his life.

Maybe. When I've watched the Bears, I've seen a pretty inconsistent player who can make great throws but also makes a lot of questionable decisions and is far too willing to run with the ball.

He's entering his 4th season and there has been very little progress in his game. That's not to say he can't turn it around but the odds get longer with every season.