QB comparisons

[TBBishop]

Obviously, you didn't read past that sentence.

It's the maturity, it's the leadership, it's the will that makes Tim Tebow a good QB. If he ever gets it right physically (throwing motion, footwork, reading defenses), he'll be a great QB.

That's what I wrote after it. His throwing motion is wacky, his footwork is awful, and he's not good at reading defenses, yet he still managed to lead an awful team to and win in the playoffs. What I meant by no reason from a physical standpoint is that the conventional wisdom would suggest the guy should never have won a single game as a starter, but not only did he win a game, he did it with a terrible team, and did it enough to bring them to the playoffs. Thus, it's the intangibles that make Tim a good QB.

Oh, I read the whole thing, I just can't believe anyone is still spewing it. I can't believe that people haven't seen enough from him to realize he can't play NFL football. Even more so, I can't believe how loudly his negatives scream yet people are still able to ignore them. You basically just said yourself outside of his personality he has no tangible redeeming qualities an NFL QB but someone should give him a job because his teams won. Everyone wants to keep saying Denver sucked with Orton and became a good team with Tebow. Well they were even better with Manning which leads me to believe that they were a talented team that wasn't playing to their potential under Orton. Whether it was Tebow that made the difference or things just clicked for them as a team is debatable. either way it was the team that won games and it was Tebow that did his best for 55 minutes of those games to make sure they didn't win.

 

[JDM]

Led the NFL in tackles through the playoffs and his team to a superbowl victory? Damn, you have high expectations if you think that is embarrassing.

I feel sorry for any son you have.

:rollseyes:

Did you watch the games? His tackles were 5+ yards up the field every time. He was nowhere near fast enough to actually meet players in the holes any more. He was a shell, if that, of what he used to be, and would not have even been considered to play on any NFL team ever if he wasn't ray Lewis.

 

[megalodon30]

Oh, I read the whole thing, I just can't believe anyone is still spewing it. I can't believe that people haven't seen enough from him to realize he can't play NFL football. Even more so, I can't believe how loudly his negatives scream yet people are still able to ignore them. You basically just said yourself outside of his personality he has no tangible redeeming qualities an NFL QB but someone should give him a job because his teams won. Everyone wants to keep saying Denver sucked with Orton and became a good team with Tebow. Well they were even better with Manning which leads me to believe that they were a talented team that wasn't playing to their potential under Orton. Whether it was Tebow that made the difference or things just clicked for them as a team is debatable. either way it was the team that won games and it was Tebow that did his best for 55 minutes of those games to make sure they didn't win.

Well, to be fair about Manning, that's kinda what happens when you add a future Hall of Famer at QB. Did you notice what happened to the Colts when they lost Manning? They won a grand total of 2 games. Manning is the type of QB that can make the worst of teams look good.

 

[JDM]

I wouldn't even compare the manning led broncos to Tebow. It's not fair. No one is claiming he's elite. The discussion is more is he even worth a shot, and showing the broncos improved with one of the best playing today has no relevance to that.

 

[megalodon30]

I don't think he does. I think that's what made the difference. He played a role similar to ray Lewis in the playoffs. He was a deciding factor, but based in things unrelated to any actual contribution himself, and it's not something to be sustained.

That's why I pointed out the issues he needs to work on can be coached. If they are coached up, he can be a successful QB in the NFL. However, if his throwing motion and footwork remain as poor as they are, then I agree, it's not something that can be sustained for a long career.

 

[JDM]

How long do you spend on that project, and is it worth the fans chanting for Tebow while you try to "fix" him?

The intangibles are nice, and he certainly has some of them. But I could be undisputedly the quickest reader of plays, know everything everyone was going to do every time, have all my teammates love me and fight for me, have fans go crazy every time I warmed up, and make every decision perfectly, never making a single mistake, and you know what? I still wouldn't make the NFL. The intangibles only go so far, and then you have to be able to actually play.

I have no doubt Tebow will be successful with his life. He has what it takes for that. It just isn't going to be as an NFL QB.

 

[megalodon30]

How long do you spend on that project, and is it worth the fans chanting for Tebow while you try to "fix" him?

That's the thing. If he goes somewhere where the QB is an established star, then no fans are gonna be chanting for him. Fans chanted in Denver because they were 1-4 after going 4-12 the previous year. Fans were chanting in New York because Mark Sanchez was playing so poorly. If he were to go to New England, for instance, there would be no chanting because Brady is there and will be there for the next 5-10 years. He could go there without fan distraction and sit and get coached up while Brady continues to do his thing.

That's why I was hoping the Broncos would keep Tebow after they got Manning so he could sit a few year and continue on improving the physical aspects of his game.

The intangibles are nice, and he certainly has some of them. But I could be undisputedly the quickest reader of plays, know everything everyone was going to do every time, have all my teammates love me and fight for me, have fans go crazy every time I warmed up, and make every decision perfectly, never making a single mistake, and you know what? I still wouldn't make the NFL. The intangibles only go so far, and then you have to be able to actually play.

I have no doubt Tebow will be successful with his life. He has what it takes for that. It just isn't going to be as an NFL QB.

That's why I said he needs to be coached up. The "it" factor in Tim Tebow is too great to ignore. Like I said, there's no reason a QB with mechanics that are that wonky should lead a team to the playoffs, but he did.

So if you're a team with an established star at QB, why not take the chance to develop Tim physically. He'd come cheap and there would be low expectation for him to perform early. And if he doesn't develop, no biggie. It's not like it's gonna cost a team $5 mil a year to sign.

 

[JDM]

I would chant to fire Belichick if he came to New England, and I think he's one of the best minds in NFL history. Luckily he seems to agree with me, if yahoo sports is to be believed.

Y! SPORTS

 

[757Hokie83]

QB A) 47.5% completion, 1663 yards, 7 TD's- 14 INT's, 6.4 yards per attempt, 54.9 QB rating, 218 yards rushing

QB B) 46.5% completion, 1729 yards, 12 TD's- 6 INT's, 6.4 yards per attempt, 70.9 QB rating, 225 yards rushing

QB C) 52.6% completion, 1498 yards, 9 TD's- 10 INT's, 7.4 yards per attempt, 74 QB rating, 93 yards rushing

this has me interested in a few other QBs in their first year of playing the full schedule

A) 53.6% completion, 3,020 yards, 21 TDs - 17 INTs, 6.9 yards per, 75.2 QB rating, 476 rushing yards

B) 64.1% completion, 2,454 yards, 10 TDs - 17 INTs, 6.2 yards per, 72.0 rating, 215 rushing yards

C) 56.8% completion, 2,547 yards, 11 Td - 12 INT, 6.8 yards per, 70.2 rating, 49 rushing yards


any guesses?

 

[757Hokie83]

well I'm off for the day...those stats are for
A) Kordell Stewart
B) Charlie Frye
C) Matt Leinart

 

[TBBishop]

Well, to be fair about Manning, that's kinda what happens when you add a future Hall of Famer at QB. Did you notice what happened to the Colts when they lost Manning? They won a grand total of 2 games. Manning is the type of QB that can make the worst of teams look good.

I absolutely saw what happened when the Colts thought they would challenge for a SB like every year and they lost their best player and became deflated and defeated before they ever stepped on the field. Kind of the same way the Broncos were deflated and defeated behind Kyle Orton. I just don't buy that Tebow led a bad team to the playoffs. The team had talent and for what ever reasons they weren't playing well. If Tebow's leadership was the reason the team turned it around that's fine, I won't argue it, but I will argue whether he played well or not.

 

[TBBishop]

I wouldn't even compare the manning led broncos to Tebow. It's not fair. No one is claiming he's elite. The discussion is more is he even worth a shot, and showing the broncos improved with one of the best playing today has no relevance to that.

He's had a shot. He's started more games than a QB with that skillset should have ever started. Most of his time on the field he played poorly. He had a chance with the Jets until they realized that his arm was even worse than it looked on film. When he did play for them he didn't do a thing. It's not their fault he still hasn't learned to throw. Truth be told he's had more shots than anyone else with such a pathetic skillset would have ever gotten so if he's already had his last shot then we're all luckier for it!!!

 

[rmilia1]

I absolutely saw what happened when the Colts thought they would challenge for a SB like every year and they lost their best player and became deflated and defeated before they ever stepped on the field. Kind of the same way the Broncos were deflated and defeated behind Kyle Orton. I just don't buy that Tebow led a bad team to the playoffs. The team had talent and for what ever reasons they weren't playing well. If Tebow's leadership was the reason the team turned it around that's fine, I won't argue it, but I will argue whether he played well or not.

The Broncos were really really good, they just hated Kyle Orton so much they decided to lose 80% of their games with him at QB so they could start a QB who cant throw/has no discernible talent and whatnot........ Makes sense, nailed it. LOL

 

[TBBishop]

That's why I pointed out the issues he needs to work on can be coached. If they are coached up, he can be a successful QB in the NFL. However, if his throwing motion and footwork remain as poor as they are, then I agree, it's not something that can be sustained for a long career.

He has 3 years under his belt and his throwing motion looks no different than it did on his first Gator jump pass. It's really hard to teach a guy to throw this way when he's thrown that way for 10-15 years of playing football. Tweeking is hard, much less the kind of fundamental changes that Tebow needs to throw an NFL ball. What is he, like, 26 now? You're really going to change someone's throwing motion at 26? Didn't he change his throwing motion last offseason and the offseason before? How long are you going to wait for him to change his throwing motion before you finally say, this is who he is, take it or leave it?

 

[TBBishop]

The Broncos were really really good, they just hated Kyle Orton so much they decided to lose 80% of their games with him at QB so they could start a QB who cant throw/has no discernible talent and whatnot........ Makes sense, nailed it. LOL

Lots of talented teams play poorly for many different reasons. Just look at the last decade for the San Diego Chargers!!!

 

[JDM]

He's had a shot. He's started more games than a QB with that skillset should have ever started. Most of his time on the field he played poorly. He had a chance with the Jets until they realized that his arm was even worse than it looked on film. When he did play for them he didn't do a thing. It's not their fault he still hasn't learned to throw. Truth be told he's had more shots than anyone else with such a pathetic skillset would have ever gotten so if he's already had his last shot then we're all luckier for it!!!

Another shot then. I agree with you, just saying the manning comparisons are extreme. No one is putting him close to manning's level.

 

[Gatorchip]

He's had a shot. He's started more games than a QB with that skillset should have ever started. Most of his time on the field he played poorly. He had a chance with the Jets until they realized that his arm was even worse than it looked on film. When he did play for them he didn't do a thing. It's not their fault he still hasn't learned to throw. Truth be told he's had more shots than anyone else with such a pathetic skillset would have ever gotten so if he's already had his last shot then we're all luckier for it!!!

Not true. Tebow never had first-team off season reps but still outplayed horse face Elway in his first games, it's ridiculous that he was traded away.

 

[JDM]

Not true. Tebow never had first-team off season reps but still outplayed horse face Elway in his first games, it's ridiculous that he was traded away.

You don't pass up Peyton.

 

[USCDoom]

I do think it is a joke that Tebow has not been given a fair chance. The guy has never had one second of coaching (just go out there and win is what every coach he has ever had did to him). The amount of time teams have wasted on people half as good and a hundred worse of a person to develop and not one will give this guy a minute is just a Joke.

I was never high on the guy, but no one can say he has ever been given a true and fair chance to even be a back up QB for a minute, let alone a starting QB.

I also think it is sad and sick the media gets a kick out of knowing they are the reason no one will sign him as a 3rd QB.

Think about it. If I (or any of you) am a GM, Lets take the Bucs. You have a starter who will be a FA after this year, he has shown Pro Bowl play and inconsistent play. You just drafted a big armed QB in the 3rd round to be a back up and develop. You then sign Tebow and cut Orlavsky and tell him he is not playing at all this year, we want him to compete with Glennon for the back up job.

Allow him to learn an Offense (even though the Bucs are a Horrible fit, just an example) for a year. In year 2 either Freeman is back with a nice new contract or he is gone. Tebow would have a year to show improvement and development if he does and so does Glennon then you have them fight it out. If not you get a Vet and cut whoever not performing (probably Tebow).

The point is, Tebow should be on a Team. He is not because no one wants the Media Scrutiny because of a 3rd string QB that might never be able to start again.

 

[JDM]

Why though? Even in your own scenario you admitted he'd probably get but in a year or so. Why being the distraction in with little shot of benefitting from it?

As for not getting a chance, the fact that he even made an NFL roster as a QB with his skill set was more than fair on it's own. It's not his fault he was run out of Denver, but you don't pass up Peyton unless you're the patriots, packers, colts, or redskins. Anyone else would (and should) jump at that opportunity.