QB comparisons

[TexasMan]

So if this is all about how teams just win with a QB, where's the crusade to get Vince Young back in the NFL?

 

[megalodon30]

While you're trying to put words in my mouth, what I said was it was a team effort. I didn't suggest that he didn't have anything to do with what Denver did or that they could have done what they did without him. You guys might want to sweep under the rug the fact that he played poorly most of the time but I'll keep pulling that rug back. He was awful! Awful game in and game out for most of the game and the defense and running game would keep it close. So we're not going to sit here and act like the team just sucked and he was this savior. What kind of savior sucks for 55 minutes? Tebow was a cog, a link in the chain, that played well and had a lot of luck at the end of games. Plain and simple, if he were good, he would have a job.

No need to put words in your mouth. "He sucked, but they still won." Because that's how the NFL works. All the teams with the worst QBs always make the playoffs, right?

I have already stated that I get that he's not the most polished QB out there, but his intangibles are off the charts. There's no reason from a physical standpoint that he should have success as an NFL QB, but he does. It's the maturity, it's the leadership, it's the will that makes Tim Tebow a good QB. If he ever gets it right physically (throwing motion, footwork, reading defenses), he'll be a great QB.

 

[wilwhite]

So now that Tebow's a free agent and can be picked up by anyone, do the Tebow supporters think:

a) he'll be picked up shortly as a QB
b) teams think the distraction isn't worth whatever upside there is
c) teams want him but there's a conspiracy to shut him out
d) teams want him but he doesn't want them on the terms offered
e) something else?

 

[TexasMan]

I think the Jaguars give Gabbert one more shot this year, and if he is still shit, then they'll bring in Tebow for the circus.

 

[USCDoom]

So if this is all about how teams just win with a QB, where's the crusade to get Vince Young back in the NFL?

Maybe it has to do with Quitting on one of the most respected Coaches in the NFL for the past 30 years.


Look at Mike Williams, he fell to the 4th round because there was a RUMOR he quit. Not an actual fact backed up by a Coach of Fishers credentials.

I have yet to even see Quit and Tebow in the same sentence let alone in actual practice. (as it pertains to him, every writer has suggested he quit though)

 

[rmilia1]

And this combined with your blind defense of Tebow is why you're so hard to take seriously.

Two players with more than 50 attempts had a completion percentage over 65% before 1972. 3 did it in the 70s, one twice. In the 80s 13 did it, in the 90s, 21, and between 2000-2010 69 did it. Era is irrelevant, though.

Of course its easier to complete passes now. Passes now are thrown 2 yards. Its tougher to complete long downfield passes now because of the defensive schemes. Nobody is saying Tebow is a cookie cutter QB but when you totally disregard the fact the guy WINS EVERYWHERE HE HAS EVER PLAYED then you look like a jackass. If you dont like winning then thats cool, Ill take it though.

 

[rmilia1]

To sum up Tebow played NO PART AT ALL in a team going from 5-16 in their previous 21 games to winning the division and a playoff game when he became starter ( even though he was the only change made), he has no strentghs as a QB (which of course means that ANYONE can win a NFL divsion and an NFL playoff game, ANYONE) and despite leading the league in yards per completion he throws a terrible deep ball. LOL. I dont even like Tebow, not at all, its just mindblowing as a non-biased outside guy to see the hate and vitriol for this guy. Carry on yall.

 

[JDM]

Of course its easier to complete passes now. Passes now are thrown 2 yards. Its tougher to complete long downfield passes now because of the defensive schemes. Nobody is saying Tebow is a cookie cutter QB but when you totally disregard the fact the guy WINS EVERYWHERE HE HAS EVER PLAYED then you look like a jackass. If you dont like winning then thats cool, Ill take it though.

He won in Denver. He wasn't even good enough to edge out mark Sanchez in New York. College and below has no relevance, because pretty much every nfl player is a winner at those levels, or they wouldn't make it to the NFL.

 

[JDM]

To sum up Tebow played NO PART AT ALL in a team going from 5-16 in their previous 21 games to winning the division and a playoff game when he became starter ( even though he was the only change made), he has no strentghs as a QB (which of course means that ANYONE can win a NFL divsion and an NFL playoff game, ANYONE) and despite leading the league in yards per completion he throws a terrible deep ball. LOL. I dont even like Tebow, not at all, its just mindblowing as a non-biased outside guy to see the hate and vitriol for this guy. Carry on yall.

I didn't say he played no part. Ray Lewis was awful at middle linebacker this year, but he still managed to carry his team to the Super Bowl despite that because he motivated his team to succeed. That doesn't mean ray Lewis at the level he played at is a long term solution, even if he could maintain it. It means things came together and he was the driving force behind their wins.

The same thing happened with Tebow. He was in the right place at the right time, and the hype that came with Tebow pushed them to a playoff berth. The steelers were banged up and the broncos beat them. Then he went to New England and they demonstrated how easy it is for even a bad defense to stop him by playing fundamentally correct football.

Denver had a chance at one of the best QBs of his era, and they let Tebow go. That was not tebow's fault. Not beating out mark Sanchez was. Admittedly Rex Ryan didn't want him from the start, and it was an uphill battle for Tebow, but Sanchez blew this year. If Tebow was able to be even mediocre he would have gotten the chance to play. He wasn't, because he's not a QB.

Hype can only carry you so far, and once teams saw how to stop the extremely simple offense a Tebow led team necessitates, his value spiked hard. There is still some hype among people who don't understand football, but there's a reason GMs don't want him. You can't build a sustainable offense with no threat through the air and no ability to adjust your offense if one thing is stopped. As soon as you stop a Tebow led offense on the ground, the game is over. That is why Tebow is not an NFL QB.

 

[megalodon30]

To sum up Tebow played NO PART AT ALL in a team going from 5-16 in their previous 21 games to winning the division and a playoff game when he became starter ( even though he was the only change made), he has no strentghs as a QB (which of course means that ANYONE can win a NFL divsion and an NFL playoff game, ANYONE) and despite leading the league in yards per completion he throws a terrible deep ball. LOL. I dont even like Tebow, not at all, its just mindblowing as a non-biased outside guy to see the hate and vitriol for this guy. Carry on yall.

"even though he was the only change made"

That's not true. They also traded away their #1 WR Brandon Lloyd the same week.

You see, they traded away one of their few weapons, started the worst QB in the league and got much better because magic. John Elway is secretly a sorcerer and Kyle Orton and Brandon Lloyd were causing Elway's magic not to work. Tebow had nothing to do with it.

 

[TBBishop]

No need to put words in your mouth. "He sucked, but they still won." Because that's how the NFL works. All the teams with the worst QBs always make the playoffs, right?

I have already stated that I get that he's not the most polished QB out there, but his intangibles are off the charts. There's no reason from a physical standpoint that he should have success as an NFL QB, but he does. It's the maturity, it's the leadership, it's the will that makes Tim Tebow a good QB. If he ever gets it right physically (throwing motion, footwork, reading defenses), he'll be a great QB.

I won't let anyone talk about Tebow won this and Tebow won that when he played like garbage. His team propped him up, he finally came to life at the end of games, the team won. It was a team effort. So, yes, he sucked but they still won. And yes there were teams over the years who made the playoffs with bad QBs.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "There's no reason from a physical standpoint that he should have success as an NFL QB, but he does." Is that a typo were you meant that he has the physical attributes so he should succeed or are you trying to sell that he has had some success? I can only assume you mean he doesn't have the physical attributes and he's successful anyway which I have to call bullshit on. I don't care how many games the team won or if they won a playoff game, he played awfully and if he played awfully then you can't say he was successful IMO. If a CB gets beat like a drum all day but makes one great play and the team wins was he successful? If a DE is in the QBs face all day, sacking him, hurrying him, just generally dirtying up his uni but the tackle keeps the QB clean on the last drive was he successful? anyone else who can only give a team 5 good minutes per game would have been out of the league already but we want to treat Tebow differently.

 

[JDM]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "There's no reason from a physical standpoint that he should have success as an NFL QB, but he does." Is that a typo were you meant that he has the physical attributes so he should succeed or are you trying to sell that he has had some success? I can only assume you mean he doesn't have the physical attributes and he's successful anyway which I have to call bullshit on. I don't care how many games the team won or if they won a playoff game, he played awfully and if he played awfully then you can't say he was successful IMO. If a CB gets beat like a drum all day but makes one great play and the team wins was he successful? If a DE is in the QBs face all day, sacking him, hurrying him, just generally dirtying up his uni but the tackle keeps the QB clean on the last drive was he successful? anyone else who can only give a team 5 good minutes per game would have been out of the league already but we want to treat Tebow differently.

Unfortunately he means exactly what he says. He knows Tebow doesn't have the tools and has managed to win despite them. He just thinks past success is the grounds to add a player for this year. Tebow had limited success in the wins department, and the novelty and hype that has been created around him helped contribute to that. He even made some plays at the right time to contribute. But the offense is not sustainable to win football games and win them consistently. I will not be upset in the slightest if someone insists on giving Tebow another chance, but I would happily wager that any coach or GM who believes Tebow is the answer and brings him in will be fired within five years.

 

[megalodon30]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "There's no reason from a physical standpoint that he should have success as an NFL QB, but he does."

Obviously, you didn't read past that sentence.

It's the maturity, it's the leadership, it's the will that makes Tim Tebow a good QB. If he ever gets it right physically (throwing motion, footwork, reading defenses), he'll be a great QB.

That's what I wrote after it. His throwing motion is wacky, his footwork is awful, and he's not good at reading defenses, yet he still managed to lead an awful team to and win in the playoffs. What I meant by no reason from a physical standpoint is that the conventional wisdom would suggest the guy should never have won a single game as a starter, but not only did he win a game, he did it with a terrible team, and did it enough to bring them to the playoffs. Thus, it's the intangibles that make Tim a good QB.

 

[JDM]

But half those intangibles were blind hype and novelty. The novelty is gone and the hype will follow when he gets shut down for a year or two.

 

[megalodon30]

But half those intangibles were blind hype and novelty. The novelty is gone and the hype will follow when he gets shut down for a year or two.

To quote The Princess Bride, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

Intangibles are abilities that one has that cannot be quantified. Hype is not an ability one has. Novelty is not an ability one can possess. Leadership, will, drive, work ethic, etc. are abilities that cannot be quantified, but are still positive attributes of one's skill set. Of which Tim Tebow has. He has "it" as far as intangibles go, and the abilities that are lacking like throwing motion and footwork are things that can be coached.

 

[Gatorchip]

nm

 

[JDM]

To quote The Princess Bride, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

Intangibles are abilities that one has that cannot be quantified. Hype is not an ability one has. Novelty is not an ability one can possess. Leadership, will, drive, work ethic, etc. are abilities that cannot be quantified, but are still positive attributes of one's skill set. Of which Tim Tebow has. He has "it" as far as intangibles go, and the abilities that are lacking like throwing motion and footwork are things that can be coached.

I don't think he does. I think that's what made the difference. He played a role similar to ray Lewis in the playoffs. He was a deciding factor, but based in things unrelated to any actual contribution himself, and it's not something to be sustained.

 

[Gatorchip]

I don't think he does. I think that's what made the difference. He played a role similar to ray Lewis in the playoffs. He was a deciding factor, but based in things unrelated to any actual contribution himself, and it's not something to be sustained.

Like Ray Lewis and his 17 years.

 

[JDM]

Ray Lewis this year. In the past he contributed as one of the best ever. I am referring to what he did this year, which, from a pure linebacker standpoint, was embarrassing.

 

[Gatorchip]

Ray Lewis this year. In the past he contributed as one of the best ever. I am referring to what he did this year, which, from a pure linebacker standpoint, was embarrassing.

Led the NFL in tackles through the playoffs and his team to a superbowl victory? Damn, you have high expectations if you think that is embarrassing.

I feel sorry for any son you have.

:rollseyes: