Problems with our passing offense

[clyde_carbon]

I wanna talk about our OFFENSE. Not the players, but the actual offense and in particularly the passing offense and the problems that we see every week.

In my opinion, here are the following problems with our passing offense:

1. We're a low-percentage passing offense. What does that mean? Well, it means (as it seems) we throw more intermediate and deep routes than we do shorter, more high-percentage routes. Why is that a problem? Well, it's a problem because ours WRs' talent is more slated for a short passing game. We don't have any guys on the outside that can consistently stretch the field and get open intermediately and deep.

2. The deep passing game works best if we're running the ball effectively up the middle. The problem is that when the running game isn't working, we're still trying to connect deep without trying to stretch the defense sideline to sideline with screens and flat passes. This shows poor adjustment by the coaches. If the deep game isn't working, we have no way of establishing a drive because our short passing game is non-existent.

3. And this ties into the aforementioned point, but our blocking schemes when it comes the shorter routes, especially flats and screens, is absolutely dreadful. It's like we don't even practice them. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL when it comes to running screen. Even in the running game we're pretty bad at toss and stretch and off-tackle running plays.

4. Our running game works best for us when we're running it up the middle. Defenses have caught up to that, though. And since defenses have caught up to that, our deep passing game is struggling because it's an all or nothing passing game predicated on one-read play-action plays. And this is why we cannot sustain drives consistently.

This was obvious Sunday because we either had a really good drive, or a completely dud of a drive that went no where. We don't spend much time in the middle.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

I know you said you do not want to talk about players so I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I think a big part of the offensive struggles, as you mentioned with the deep passes, is Kaepernick's inability to check the ball down or look for shorter routes. We have players running these routes but they are not utilized.

There are numerous times a game where I see a player open for a few yards but Kaepernick refuses to throw it to him. He seems to want to "go for it all" and get a first down on every down which isn't necessary a very good strategy.

And in reference to our screen game, its pathetic. Like you mentioned, it does seem like we do not even practice it. That's the only logical explanation for such poorly executed plays.

 

[Hangman]

I think Kaepernick should be captain cant check down cause that is the problem with the offense right now. The guy responsible for defending the RB is leaving him to spy on Kaepernick. Once he figures out how to throw to the open RB that will open up running lanes and passing down the field. Plus get rid of negative yards on those plays.

 

[BINGO]

I wanna talk about our OFFENSE. Not the players, but the actual offense and in particularly the passing offense and the problems that we see every week.

In my opinion, here are the following problems with our passing offense:

1. We're a low-percentage passing offense. What does that mean? Well, it means (as it seems) we throw more intermediate and deep routes than we do shorter, more high-percentage routes. Why is that a problem? Well, it's a problem because ours WRs' talent is more slated for a short passing game. We don't have any guys on the outside that can consistently stretch the field and get open intermediately and deep.

I think this is a great thread, Clyde. As fans we really need to discuss and assess this situation for what it is. I agree with everything Clyde has said, in particular bullet points 2 - 4.

Mario Manningham is one of the better deep threats in the league. We are doing a very poor job of using this strength, implementing that innate skill of his to our style of offense. That memorable Eli Manning throw to Mario in the SB game they won was not an anomaly. Being that I am bombarded with Giants games due to my geographical region, I had the pleasure (for lack of better words) to see Mario play a lot over the years. The deep throw to Mario was a common theme in that offense.

Mario thus far is doing a fabulous job in running quick slants and moving the chains for us, but we really need to design plays for him where we are able to stretch the field. Go back to see how the Giants had took advantage of his skill. On any given Sunday Vernon Davis and Anquan Boldin will get defenses undivided attention on obvious passing downs, leaving Mario with a #2 corner on one on one coverage...and this is where we need to make them pay!!! Not many DBs in the league can run with Mario, not because that he is that fast, but simply because he is so quick and will find a way to get separtion on most DBs. I also agree with you tremendously about the fact that we are not doing a very poor job with our "low percentage" passing. We need to look at Saints offensive scheme (when I say we, I mean Roman and Harbaugh) to steal one or two running back screen plays from that offense. If we implement more screen plays to our offense, I can assure you that that will keep defenses off balance. Which would then inevitably open things up for Mario on the outside later on in the game.

I have noticed lately that we have stolen a page from the Cowboys offensive playbook. They have a very beautiful draw pay to their RBs. Like a hesitated delay draw that the Cowboys tend to execute so perfectly. Lately I've noticed Kap trying to run that play with Gore. It doesn't look as clean as the Cowboys, but with more practice, I think that draw play will work better for us in the future. For that to happen though we can't keep getting 12 man in the box. We need to open up the passing game in a variety of ways as Clyde is saying.

 

[TobyTyler]

I wanna talk about our OFFENSE. Not the players, but the actual offense and in particularly the passing offense and the problems that we see every week.

In my opinion, here are the following problems with our passing offense:

1. We're a low-percentage passing offense. What does that mean? Well, it means (as it seems) we throw more intermediate and deep routes than we do shorter, more high-percentage routes. Why is that a problem? Well, it's a problem because ours WRs' talent is more slated for a short passing game. We don't have any guys on the outside that can consistently stretch the field and get open intermediately and deep.

2. The deep passing game works best if we're running the ball effectively up the middle. The problem is that when the running game isn't working, we're still trying to connect deep without trying to stretch the defense sideline to sideline with screens and flat passes. This shows poor adjustment by the coaches. If the deep game isn't working, we have no way of establishing a drive because our short passing game is non-existent.

3. And this ties into the aforementioned point, but our blocking schemes when it comes the shorter routes, especially flats and screens, is absolutely dreadful. It's like we don't even practice them. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL when it comes to running screen. Even in the running game we're pretty bad at toss and stretch and off-tackle running plays.

4. Our running game works best for us when we're running it up the middle. Defenses have caught up to that, though. And since defenses have caught up to that, our deep passing game is struggling because it's an all or nothing passing game predicated on one-read play-action plays. And this is why we cannot sustain drives consistently.

This was obvious Sunday because we either had a really good drive, or a completely dud of a drive that went no where. We don't spend much time in the middle.

They can only do what the Quarterback's limitations allow them to do. I'll trust that the 49er coaching staff is better informed on the situation than you are.........but that's just me.

 

[BINGO]

Colin Kaepernick's inconsistency and the deep ball | Chat49ers.com

 

[CalamityX11]

No names mentioned but the lack of checkdowns have more of a hand that some realize. Obviously not sayin everything needs to be checked but find that middleground, when its early on first or 2nd, maybe 3rd down, that check can get a first or close to it.

IMO, there's minimal ball distribution outside, i.e. boldin n Davis... its easier for defenses to play on % as where they think the ball is going to be thrown. Never saw Baldwin get into groove, KW on anything quick etc... but its niether now or later...

Screens need to be better and ran well, the lack of quantity n quality of the screens are bizarre for todays NFL IMO.

Also I hope we work on rollouts whether its PA or an off tackle run where the line is moving towards one side.

Fire Mangini.... serious

 

[CalamityX11]

Not to be forgotten...

Last monday was an improvement but getting the play in earlier rather than late in the playclock would be much appreciated.

 

[Jikkle]

I know you said you do not want to talk about players so I'm not trying to hijack the thread but I think a big part of the offensive struggles, as you mentioned with the deep passes, is Kaepernick's inability to check the ball down or look for shorter routes. We have players running these routes but they are not utilized.

There are numerous times a game where I see a player open for a few yards but Kaepernick refuses to throw it to him. He seems to want to "go for it all" and get a first down on every down which isn't necessary a very good strategy.

And in reference to our screen game, its pathetic. Like you mentioned, it does seem like we do not even practice it. That's the only logical explanation for such poorly executed plays.

What I think Clyde is talking about is a short passing game by design. We call pass plays where the read is deep first and the rest of the reads are shorter.

We don't really have a lot of 3 step drop ball out kind of pass plays that net you an easy 5-10 yards and that's what we need more of because that's how you loosen up defenses from crowding the line, make more managable downs, and are quick easy throws that are good for a QB but even better for a young QB.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I wanna talk about our OFFENSE. Not the players, but the actual offense and in particularly the passing offense and the problems that we see every week.

In my opinion, here are the following problems with our passing offense:

1. We're a low-percentage passing offense. What does that mean? Well, it means (as it seems) we throw more intermediate and deep routes than we do shorter, more high-percentage routes. Why is that a problem? Well, it's a problem because ours WRs' talent is more slated for a short passing game. We don't have any guys on the outside that can consistently stretch the field and get open intermediately and deep.

2. The deep passing game works best if we're running the ball effectively up the middle. The problem is that when the running game isn't working, we're still trying to connect deep without trying to stretch the defense sideline to sideline with screens and flat passes. This shows poor adjustment by the coaches. If the deep game isn't working, we have no way of establishing a drive because our short passing game is non-existent.

3. And this ties into the aforementioned point, but our blocking schemes when it comes the shorter routes, especially flats and screens, is absolutely dreadful. It's like we don't even practice them. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL when it comes to running screen. Even in the running game we're pretty bad at toss and stretch and off-tackle running plays.

4. Our running game works best for us when we're running it up the middle. Defenses have caught up to that, though. And since defenses have caught up to that, our deep passing game is struggling because it's an all or nothing passing game predicated on one-read play-action plays. And this is why we cannot sustain drives consistently.

This was obvious Sunday because we either had a really good drive, or a completely dud of a drive that went no where. We don't spend much time in the middle.

For the past few weeks, I've found myself squarely in the "It's the coaching/playcalling" camp as far as diagnosing the problems with the passing offense. Is that to say that Kap and the receivers don't also bear plenty of blame? Of course not. But the playcalling and coaching needs to get more out of our guys. I think this post hits a lot of the issues squarely on the head.

In the middle of the game on Sunday, I posted saying that we do one thing well: power running up the middle. I think that's true. It seems that in every other element of the game, we struggle. Our outside runs and screen game are AWFUL, so bad that it almost has to be schematic.

On the bright side, we did use some more slants to Manningham this week, and Crabtree is effective in the short-to-intermediate area, so there is some hope that this aspect of the offense will improve. The coaches also seem determined to use the short-passing offense more, so hopefully they're getting the hint. We just need to be able to draw up effective plays. I do wonder if our players are overloaded with the size of the playbook, and if we wouldn't be better served by whittling it down to a more manageable size. Run fewer plays, but run them well. Anyway, good food for thought going forward.

 

[darken65]

For the past few weeks, I've found myself squarely in the "It's the coaching/playcalling" camp as far as diagnosing the problems with the passing offense. Is that to say that Kap and the receivers don't also bear plenty of blame? Of course not. But the playcalling and coaching needs to get more out of our guys. I think this post hits a lot of the issues squarely on the head.

In the middle of the game on Sunday, I posted saying that we do one thing well: power running up the middle. I think that's true. It seems that in every other element of the game, we struggle. Our outside runs and screen game are AWFUL, so bad that it almost has to be schematic.

On the bright side, we did use some more slants to Manningham this week, and Crabtree is effective in the short-to-intermediate area, so there is some hope that this aspect of the offense will improve. The coaches also seem determined to use the short-passing offense more, so hopefully they're getting the hint. We just need to be able to draw up effective plays. I do wonder if our players are overloaded with the size of the playbook, and if we wouldn't be better served by whittling it down to a more manageable size. Run fewer plays, but run them well. Anyway, good food for thought going forward.

I have to disagree on our running game. Gore held to 31 yards on 13 carries ,total rushing net of 76 yards. Pathetic for 9ers football. Teams just stack the box and will always know that the 9ers will run on the first down. This was against the 'Skins. Imagine when we face a top ten defense. I say Kap needs to do what he does best and stop thinking he can be a pocket passer. Unleash the fury!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I have to disagree on our running game. Gore held to 31 yards on 13 carries ,total rushing net of 76 yards. Pathetic for 9ers football. Teams just stack the box and will always know that the 9ers will run on the first down. This was against the 'Skins. Imagine when we face a top ten defense. I say Kap needs to do what he does best and stop thinking he can be a pocket passer. Unleash the fury!

Teams can stop us. We still run up the middle effectively, this game aside. Washington was selling out to stop the run, and we were able to take advantage through the air. That doesn't mean our power run game is weak.

 

[darken65]

Teams can stop us. We still run up the middle effectively, this game aside. Washington was selling out to stop the run, and we were able to take advantage through the air. That doesn't mean our power run game is weak.

Not weak ,just predictable. The play callling is out of some 'NFL for Dummies' book. The 9ers aren't fooling anyone and it is time to change what doesn't work. The 9ers could not take advantage through the air against a top defense.

 

[deep9er]

I have to disagree on our running game. Gore held to 31 yards on 13 carries ,total rushing net of 76 yards. Pathetic for 9ers football. Teams just stack the box and will always know that the 9ers will run on the first down. This was against the 'Skins. Imagine when we face a top ten defense. I say Kap needs to do what he does best and stop thinking he can be a pocket passer. Unleash the fury!

don't think anyone disagrees, but what's holding him back now (previous to Monday)? when he drops back to pass, why does he hold/hesitate so much? we're talking seconds but still...................

there will be plays where the receivers aren't open, but generally, seems like HE is the one holding back? no doubt in my mind the Coaches have been working on this all season?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I have to disagree on our running game. Gore held to 31 yards on 13 carries ,total rushing net of 76 yards. Pathetic for 9ers football. Teams just stack the box and will always know that the 9ers will run on the first down. This was against the 'Skins. Imagine when we face a top ten defense. I say Kap needs to do what he does best and stop thinking he can be a pocket passer. Unleash the fury!

If he can't be a pocket passer, we need to move on sooner rather than later.

 

[Jikkle]

I have to disagree on our running game. Gore held to 31 yards on 13 carries ,total rushing net of 76 yards. Pathetic for 9ers football. Teams just stack the box and will always know that the 9ers will run on the first down. This was against the 'Skins. Imagine when we face a top ten defense. I say Kap needs to do what he does best and stop thinking he can be a pocket passer. Unleash the fury!

This completely highlights the issue with the play calling/coaching.

No matter how good you are at something if defenses sell out to stop it they typically will be successful. But if the defense sells out to stop something it should leave something else wide open and we've struggled to exploit the fact teams sell out to stop our power running game.

Which goes back to Clyde's point in that the lack of short to intermediate pass game is killing us on offense right now. If defenses are loading the box and creeping up at the line you need to hit them with nice quick passes that you can complete before the defenses realizes it's a pass play. When you have longer developing plays the defense has time to recognize, react, and adjust to it.

The passing attack needs more slants, a lot more play action, and they need to roll Kaepernick out a little more.

Speaking of rollouts watching the past couple of weeks I don't understand why we don't come up with a bootleg run pass option for Kaepernick. Whenever he rolls out defenders get jittery and it forces them to make the decision to either attack him to stop him from running or staying into coverage. The Gore drop in the Saints game and I believe the Packers playoff game last year where Gore got a big gain both came in situations where the defender decided to attack Kap and Kap just threw it over their heads to Gore.

 

[darken65]

don't think anyone disagrees, but what's holding him back now (previous to Monday)? when he drops back to pass, why does he hold/hesitate so much? we're talking seconds but still...................

there will be plays where the receivers aren't open, but generally, seems like HE is the one holding back? no doubt in my mind the Coaches have been working on this all season?

He is being told to hold off on running I'm sure. What I am not sure of is how good a passing QB he can be. The bottom line for this year is just let him do his thing. No more time for training.

 

[darken65]

If he can't be a pocket passer, we need to move on sooner rather than later.

I'm not sure why anyone would have thought that about him. He throws darts with no air under them. His ability was and still is to get out of a jam and run the ball. If the 9ers want a pocket passer then they picked wrong guy.

 

[darken65]

This completely highlights the issue with the play calling/coaching.

No matter how good you are at something if defenses sell out to stop it they typically will be successful. But if the defense sells out to stop something it should leave something else wide open and we've struggled to exploit the fact teams sell out to stop our power running game.

Which goes back to Clyde's point in that the lack of short to intermediate pass game is killing us on offense right now. If defenses are loading the box and creeping up at the line you need to hit them with nice quick passes that you can complete before the defenses realizes it's a pass play. When you have longer developing plays the defense has time to recognize, react, and adjust to it.

The passing attack needs more slants, a lot more play action, and they need to roll Kaepernick out a little more.

Speaking of rollouts watching the past couple of weeks I don't understand why we don't come up with a bootleg run pass option for Kaepernick. Whenever he rolls out defenders get jittery and it forces them to make the decision to either attack him to stop him from running or staying into coverage. The Gore drop in the Saints game and I believe the Packers playoff game last year where Gore got a big gain both came in situations where the defender decided to attack Kap and Kap just threw it over their heads to Gore.

Playcalling...that nails it. I'm a bit surprised Roman still has a job at this moment. The plays need to work with what is the teams' best attributes are..not with what one might hope they can be.

 

[deep9er]

This completely highlights the issue with the play calling/coaching.

No matter how good you are at something if defenses sell out to stop it they typically will be successful. But if the defense sells out to stop something it should leave something else wide open and we've struggled to exploit the fact teams sell out to stop our power running game.

Which goes back to Clyde's point in that the lack of short to intermediate pass game is killing us on offense right now. If defenses are loading the box and creeping up at the line you need to hit them with nice quick passes that you can complete before the defenses realizes it's a pass play. When you have longer developing plays the defense has time to recognize, react, and adjust to it.

The passing attack needs more slants, a lot more play action, and they need to roll Kaepernick out a little more.

Speaking of rollouts watching the past couple of weeks I don't understand why we don't come up with a bootleg run pass option for Kaepernick. Whenever he rolls out defenders get jittery and it forces them to make the decision to either attack him to stop him from running or staying into coverage. The Gore drop in the Saints game and I believe the Packers playoff game last year where Gore got a big gain both came in situations where the defender decided to attack Kap and Kap just threw it over their heads to Gore.[/QUOTE]

yep, and there were more instances where Kaep could've made a good play after getting out of the pocket? but he just doesn't seem to see enough of the field? so if he can't "see it" not make quick decisions, not sure this is effective?

btw - this is what makes Wilson is good.