politics thread

[gkekoa]

GK, give it up man, arguing over someone else's life experience that doesn't conform to your own is pointless.

That said, if you don't mind, are you from the South, East, Midwest, Central or Western US?

Did I argue? I was asking questions to understand. Isn't that what the player's want? Or do they want me to simply side with them without knowledge?

I asked for clarification on a couple points from Shark such as being pulled over 48 times in 48 years. It was really only a couple of times where he felt it was unjust. Then when I asked more questions, it appears the cops were doing their jobs based on the facts.

I was born in MD, grew up in SC, college in NC and Hawaii, live in FL, and work in LA.

 

[skinsdad62]

Take note that there will be a response to this, but prior to my posting it, let me ask a simple yes or no question.

Do you believe, as I do, that the strength of a country is told in the way that it treats its people?

i see where you are going with this but standing or sitting for the anthem is about respect for our country . what the cowboys did last night is also acceptable to me as a compromise

 

[gkekoa]

The question is "reasonable Suspicion" as the law allows for this. It is interesting that in NYC "Stop and Frisk" was applied heavily towards certain people. Some were being stopped 2 - 3 times per week consistently. Shit ain't hard to research.

So tell me more about "stop and frisk." Was the procedure based solely on race? Could the cops stop and frisk a person for no reason whatsoever other than they were black?

BTW, I am firmly against stop and frisk if we are referring to stopping people on the street and looking for a reason to arrest a law abiding citizen.

 

[skinsdad62]

ok so what thing has to happen so we can stand up for the national anthem ?

 

[gkekoa]

My take is the owners acted strictly in rebellion to Donald Trump. Hell, I may have acted in the same way.

The problem comes in the form of rebellion the fans show the league.

People say Trump is divisive. I would say he is not unifying. The divisions were already there.

The division in this case started with a player or two. The fans were already pissed.

The division in Charlottesville was already there. Is there anything more divisive than organizations that divide us on race and sexuality?


Trump sounds like a complete asshole any time he speaks. When you get beyond the delivery, the message is usually correct.

Me translating for Trump...I fully disagree with the way the football players are boycotting the anthem, as do millions of others. Personally, I think the players that boycott should be fired and millions would like to see that happen as well. For the fans that don't like it, walk out of the games and the players will stand.

For Obama supporters, this is called community organizing. Trump lacks the same eloquence but is doing the same thing.

 

[skinsdad62]

i think i am going to move this thread too

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Me translating for Trump...I fully disagree with the way the football players are boycotting the anthem, as do millions of others. Personally, I think the players that boycott should be fired and millions would like to see that happen as well. For the fans that don't like it, walk out of the games and the players will stand.

Good take. Politics aside - Trump's stance is really stupid unless his complete goal is just to bring attention to himself (highly likely). Let me get this straight - he doesn't like players taking a knee or seat during the National Anthem. Prior to his speech there were like 5-6 players still doing this & they were receiving minimal attention. After his poorly phrased speech there are now hundreds of players doing this & they are getting tons of attention. What exactly is his end game (beyond simply trying to divide this country as much as possible)?

 

[gkekoa]

Good take. Politics aside - Trump's stance is really stupid unless his complete goal is just to bring attention to himself (highly likely). Let me get this straight - he doesn't like players taking a knee or seat during the National Anthem. Prior to his speech there were like 5-6 players still doing this & they were receiving minimal attention. After his poorly phrased speech there are now hundreds of players doing this & they are getting tons of attention. What exactly is his end game (beyond simply trying to divide this country as much as possible)?

I agree the result was terribly predictable.

It is interesting we are actually talking now though.

Again, the country was already divided. It isn't any more divided under Trump as it was before Trump. It is now people are more vocal.

 

[gkekoa]

on one hand you have the anger felt by the perceived disrespect to our country

in contrast to

the anger felt by a whole group of people who are literally being disrespected by that country

Why is one a perceived disrespect and the other is a literal disrespect?

Isn't a protest of a country a literal disrespect?

 

[ehb5]

Hmmm. I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you are wrong. Do you think your parents generation ever thought they would see an african american president in their lifetimes?

I think change like this can happen much quicker, but its not going to happen by meaningless protests by celebs who believe its the current politically correct action to get involved in and then next month they are onto something else. And this is what I believe we are seeing in the NFL right now. What we need is not protests, but action and involvement. Get into the community. Get into the police force. Get into the Judicial system. Get committed to being part of the solution. Don't just take a knee and then collect your millions and play your game.

Im not sure I agree with that. I think for one a lot of these players do do a lot of work and take action to make the world a better place.

And I think that the protest is a good way to try and help. They got us talking about it thanks to the protest. We are literally sitting here talking about these issues right now because of them. Thats a really good thing. Things wont change overnight, but if they make a national conversation happen because of their protest then the protests were successful.

 

[ehb5]

Respectfully disagree. We have seen what happens when people with no real platform protest in this country. Worse for people considered to be a minority.

Again I think Kaep picked a poor platform, but has a valid cause. But its the platform he has, and he at least has gotten the countries attention. Sadly people are more concerned with what he did rather than WHAT he was trying to get people to think about.

I dont think Kap picked a poor platform at all. He picked the best one he could have. If he had made a video and posted it to twitter or something, nobody would have paid attention. Now we have the whole country talking.

 

[j_y19]

I dont think Kap picked a poor platform at all. He picked the best one he could have. If he had made a video and posted it to twitter or something, nobody would have paid attention. Now we have the whole country talking.

The problem as I see it is that the majority of the conversation is over wether it is disrespectful or not to protest during the Anthem. I don't think that is what Kaep had in mind.

 

[gkekoa]

Im not sure I agree with that. I think for one a lot of these players do do a lot of work and take action to make the world a better place.

And I think that the protest is a good way to try and help. They got us talking about it thanks to the protest. We are literally sitting here talking about these issues right now because of them. Thats a really good thing. Things wont change overnight, but if they make a national conversation happen because of their protest then the protests were successful.

A lot of players do a lot of unquestionable good.

I think the good Kap and the players protesting is a questionable good.

I also don't see a conversation really going on that wasn't already taking place. The main contributors on here with differing opinions can and do talk about subjects that are a little uncomfortable and, for the most part, we do it very respectfully. The conversation I see now taking place in most areas is you are wrong asshole. It is disrespectful. Not it isn't jerk. That isn't really a conversation.

 

[Sharkinva]

The problem as I see it is that the majority of the conversation is over wether it is disrespectful or not to protest during the Anthem. I don't think that is what Kaep had in mind.

And you dont think that the narrative is being directed this way intentionally?? We currently have a President trying to hide a program designed to target racial minorities (the Wall project) as something designed to keep our borders safe. Now Im fine with deporting illegals. But last time I checked, my Niece was born here, and in no way should she have to deal with racist class mates telling her crap like I cant wait till they deport you. Now did Trump say it? NO. But his policies are feeding into this kind of hate.

So while this should be about the racial divide that still exists, people are more concerned with "Oh my God, how can he disrespect the country like that?? "

 

[ehb5]

Good take. Politics aside - Trump's stance is really stupid unless his complete goal is just to bring attention to himself (highly likely). Let me get this straight - he doesn't like players taking a knee or seat during the National Anthem. Prior to his speech there were like 5-6 players still doing this & they were receiving minimal attention. After his poorly phrased speech there are now hundreds of players doing this & they are getting tons of attention. What exactly is his end game (beyond simply trying to divide this country as much as possible)?

I for one am so happy that this is what the president feels he needs to worry about

/s

 

[ehb5]

The problem as I see it is that the majority of the conversation is over wether it is disrespectful or not to protest during the Anthem. I don't think that is what Kaep had in mind.

True.

Its possible thats just an unfortunate but necessary part of it though. I still think we're talking about the actual issue more than we would have otherwise.

 

[skinsdad62]

if i were the president i would have used better words but his anger reflects what a lot of people feel . look i get the reason for the protest . i can concede there is a legit issue . but why during my football games ? leave politics out of it and all sports . i am bombarded with this shit 24-7 everywhere

cant i watch an event and not be bothered by politics does every form of entertainment have to be like this ?

and if we cover the event cant we cover it fairly ? how many fans were interviewed? no many if at all

 

[SoCalWizFan]

A lot of players do a lot of unquestionable good.

I think the good Kap and the players protesting is a questionable good.

I also don't see a conversation really going on that wasn't already taking place. The main contributors on here with differing opinions can and do talk about subjects that are a little uncomfortable and, for the most part, we do it very respectfully. The conversation I see now taking place in most areas is you are wrong asshole. It is disrespectful. Not it isn't jerk. That isn't really a conversation.

Well agree & the person who should demonstrate this the most & be very diplomatic is the president of the United States. Yet he acts like a 10 year old and refers to people in terms like "son of a bitch" & camps on Twitter like a teenager. IMO this is insanely unprofessional. Complain about athletes all you like - the president should be held to a higher standard - he needs to grow up.

 

[ehb5]

A lot of players do a lot of unquestionable good.

I think the good Kap and the players protesting is a questionable good.

I also don't see a conversation really going on that wasn't already taking place. The main contributors on here with differing opinions can and do talk about subjects that are a little uncomfortable and, for the most part, we do it very respectfully. The conversation I see now taking place in most areas is you are wrong asshole. It is disrespectful. Not it isn't jerk. That isn't really a conversation.

Fair points.

Im a little sick of where the conversation has gone. If Kap wants to kneel fine by me. If his teammate wants to stand fine by me. I think people in general need to chill. People arent aholes for standing or kneeling.

 

[skinsdad62]

i am going to wait until sty comments on my piece i wrote earlier and then i am going to bow out of the debate . i respect sty to hear his side and opinion . i may respond to it but i will cut out

please dont take it personally and respect your views , i just want to move on