Please, no more CK7 vs. Smith debates

[49ermann]

If you read the article, it says that Kapernick is under duress 23% because he holds on to the ball for about .7 seconds longer than Smith.

 

[Bemular]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha! That one cracked me up. I'm gonna use it on some other poor unsuspecting soul!

Haha - Well, my brother, you can consider it yours to share!

 

[Bemular]

i never talked about smith's rating. he's leading the league in % and has an 8ypa. those numbers also factor in times that he played injured. so don't give me smith wasn't playing well. the offense was still improving before the qb switch was made.

whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Finally the days of your BS excuses and shape-shifting arguments are over; you can run along now.

 

[TobyTyler]

Haha - Well, my brother, you can consider it yours to share!

Cool. Most of the stuff I get credit for comes from other people.

 

[Bemular]

Don't pull a muscle, bem. Smith isn't fit to mow your lawn, but only you and a few other geniuses recognized it before Harbaugh made the move.

Which really sucks because I need my lawn mowed

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I do find it interesting that the Niners under Smith had a 7.98 YPA which is 3rd in the league. Obviously the Niners were much more than check down capable with Smith I would say they are a medium/short passing team with him and a long/medium team with Kaep. Either way this is obviously a running team and will not transform itself into a 30-40 attempts per game offense with either QB at the helm. So I think YPA is a good stat for judging their effectiveness.

Kaep has put up great YPA as a starter 9.9 or so... Which is about 2 YPA better than the best QBs in the league. Obviously it isn't the only stat worth noting - and some things Kaep brings you can't easily quantify. But does everyone really think Kaep can keep this YPA pace up for the ret of the season and into the playoffs?

Does the league start to figure out his proclivities in the passing game? Do they start taking those 20-30 yard routes away (if possible)? Does Kaep continue to go there with his Brett Favre mentality he spoke of and risk a poor completion % and possible INTz? Does he start to shy away and run more often? Can he just continue to bomb away despite the D and continue to make it happen at a Pro World YPA?

These are my concerns. I wonder if they are unfounded but I'd hate to find out they aren't when the playoffs roll around.

 

[deep9er]

I do find it interesting that the Niners under Smith had a 7.98 YPA which is 3rd in the league. Obviously the Niners were much more than check down capable with Smith I would say they are a medium/short passing team with him and a long/medium team with Kaep. Either way this is obviously a running team and will not transform itself into a 30-40 attempts per game offense with either QB at the helm. So I think YPA is a good stat for judging their effectiveness.

Kaep has put up great YPA as a starter 9.9 or so... Which is about 2 YPA better than the best QBs in the league. Obviously it isn't the only stat worth noting - and some things Kaep brings you can't easily quantify. But does everyone really think Kaep can keep this YPA pace up for the ret of the season and into the playoffs?

Does the league start to figure out his proclivities in the passing game? Do they start taking those 20-30 yard routes away (if possible)? Does Kaep continue to go there with his Brett Favre mentality he spoke of and risk a poor completion % and possible INTz? Does he start to shy away and run more often? Can he just continue to bomb away despite the D and continue to make it happen at a Pro World YPA?

These are my concerns. I wonder if they are unfounded but I'd hate to find out they aren't when the playoffs roll around.

legit concerns but lets not get carried away?

other teams scout other QB's every game, all season, for multiple seasons. so no, Kaep will not keep it up, but we shouldn't expect him to.

your bolden is right, we won't transform into a passing team anyway. but it APPEARS we've increased our chances of longer completions, should we choose to call it, or need to call it?

but it isn't only longer passes, which most teams don't call a LOT of either. it APPEARS a few more (not all) of those passing plays can be extended? whether he runs or throws short, still beats a sack.

 

[wartyOne]

Simmons is now a featured writer for Grantland and Simmons does TMQ, but I'm not familiar with it, so I was putting a disclaimer on the source, and yes, I think it's a bad idea.

Simmons isn't TMQ. Gregg Easterbrook is.

 

[wartyOne]

I do find it interesting that the Niners under Smith had a 7.98 YPA which is 3rd in the league. Obviously the Niners were much more than check down capable with Smith I would say they are a medium/short passing team with him and a long/medium team with Kaep. Either way this is obviously a running team and will not transform itself into a 30-40 attempts per game offense with either QB at the helm. So I think YPA is a good stat for judging their effectiveness.

Kaep has put up great YPA as a starter 9.9 or so... Which is about 2 YPA better than the best QBs in the league. Obviously it isn't the only stat worth noting - and some things Kaep brings you can't easily quantify. But does everyone really think Kaep can keep this YPA pace up for the ret of the season and into the playoffs?

Does the league start to figure out his proclivities in the passing game? Do they start taking those 20-30 yard routes away (if possible)? Does Kaep continue to go there with his Brett Favre mentality he spoke of and risk a poor completion % and possible INTz? Does he start to shy away and run more often? Can he just continue to bomb away despite the D and continue to make it happen at a Pro World YPA?

These are my concerns. I wonder if they are unfounded but I'd hate to find out they aren't when the playoffs roll around.

I get the concern here, and this is a hypothetical as the sample size is too small, but have teams figured out Brees, Rodgers, Brady and the Mannings? There are many seasons worth of tape on those QB's, and they still put up 5000 yard passing seasons.

I think this argument holds a lot of weight in the case of guys like Tim Rattay and Matt Cassell. Is Kaepernick in that vein? Time will tell, but I don't think he is.

 

[MHSL82]

Simmons isn't TMQ. Gregg Easterbrook is.

Ohh, ok. My fault, I don't read TMQ unless it mentions our guys and is brought to my attention. And it's even worse, Simmons criticized Easterbrook for the reporting on SpyGate. Tuesday Morning Quarterback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wouldn't have even posted the thing if I knew that TMQ wasn't Simmons. I took TMQ being a thing people read with more credibility than Bleacher Report, for example. Then I thought, same organization, association was good.

 

[wartyOne]

Ohh, ok. My fault, I don't read TMQ unless it mentions our guys and is brought to my attention. And it's even worse, Simmons criticized Easterbrook for the reporting on SpyGate. Tuesday Morning Quarterback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wouldn't have even posted the thing if I knew that TMQ wasn't Simmons. I took TMQ being a thing people read with more credibility than Bleacher Report, for example. Then I thought, same organization, association was good.

No biggie. I used to read it all the time. I enjoy his takes. But it's so long that I don't really get into it much anymore.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I get the concern here, and this is a hypothetical as the sample size is too small, but have teams figured out Brees, Rodgers, Brady and the Mannings? There are many seasons worth of tape on those QB's, and they still put up 5000 yard passing seasons.

I think this argument holds a lot of weight in the case of guys like Tim Rattay and Matt Cassell. Is Kaepernick in that vein? Time will tell, but I don't think he is.

It is totally a hypothetical for sure. Who knows what's going to happen even this weekend it could all come crashing down. But playing along... I'm just talking about the production we've seen so far from him as a starter. About 9.9 YPA, 26 attempts per game. 9.9 is otherworldly. Only 1 guy has had a 9+ YPA for at least the past 7 seasons. I'm not talking total yards - none of those guys you mentioned averaged a better YPA - Rodgers is the only one to average over 9 for a season I mentioned. I don't think Kaep would ever hit 5,000 in this offense, but I'm talkin YPA which I think is a better measure of a passing attack - maybe I'm wrong there.

I think Kaep is a whole lot better than Rattay etc. yet still to keep this up he would be the GOAT. QBs who average 8 YPA even 7.5 are tops in this league. And if he settles down to 8 and is still tops in the league... Well I am afeared to say this but, 8 YPA (still tops in the league just not otherworldly) per 26 attempts is 208 yards per game. Those numbers look familiar.

So I'm wondering, this is great but does everyone expect this level of production to last? based on historical statistics. I'd go with probably not, which in a way leaves us where we were - plus intangibles. Maybe those intangibles in this offense vault our passing attack into this previously unsustainable and never-before-seen YPA we've been witnessing, but being realistic and measured I'll believe it when I keep seeing it for i dont know another 8 games

Perhaps none of us have thought of it in the context of this offense before, because really YPA-wise Smith was doing about as much as humanly possible already (I'm just saying YPA-wise) - now Kaep comes in and plays like Superman... We might not be seeing things through the lense of reality...

 

[wartyOne]

It is totally a hypothetical for sure. Who knows what's going to happen even this weekend it could all come crashing down. But playing along... I'm just talking about the production we've seen so far from him as a starter. About 9.9 YPA, 26 attempts per game. 9.9 is otherworldly. Only 1 guy has had a 9+ YPA for at least the past 7 seasons. I'm not talking total yards - none of those guys you mentioned averaged a better YPA - Rodgers is the only one to average over 9 for a season I mentioned. I don't think Kaep would ever hit 5,000 in this offense, but I'm talkin YPA which I think is a better measure of a passing attack - maybe I'm wrong there.

I think Kaep is a whole lot better than Rattay etc. yet still to keep this up he would be the GOAT. QBs who average 8 YPA even 7.5 are tops in this league. And if he settles down to 8 and is still tops in the league... Well I am afeared to say this but, 8 YPA (still tops in the league just not otherworldly) per 26 attempts is 208 yards per game. Those numbers look familiar.

So I'm wondering, this is great but does everyone expect this level of production to last? based on historical statistics. I'd go with probably not, which in a way leaves us where we were - plus intangibles. Maybe those intangibles in this offense vault our passing attack into this previously unsustainable and never-before-seen YPA we've been witnessing, but being realistic and measured I'll believe it when I keep seeing it for i dont know another 8 games

Perhaps none of us have thought of it in the context of this offense before, because really YPA-wise Smith was doing about as much as humanly possible already (I'm just saying YPA-wise) - now Kaep comes in and plays like Superman... We might not be seeing things through the lense of reality...

Difference being 8th season versus second start.

As for Kaep's YPA versus Smith's, how much of that is YAC on the part of Smith, and Kaep throwing beyond 15 yards for completions? Not stirring the pot, just wondering how much of this is going on. From what I've seen, I'd lean toward Kaep hitting WR's down the field, while Smith relies on big plays from his recievers (not saying this is 100% the case, but I'd bet it is the majority).

I will say this, in Kaep's two starts I didn't think we would be relying on field position and FG's to win. In every Smith game previously, I have expected us to play for FG's and assume any 3rd down is likely seeing the ST's unit the next play (ANY 3rd down, not just the long ones). I think we'll see this is where Kaepernick separates himself from Smith in terms of performance, as well as the option to run more of the playbook.

 

[yossarian]

I think we'll get to see how much downfield threat Moss has left.

 

[wartyOne]

I think we'll get to see how much downfield threat Moss has left.

I agree. I also think we're going to see Davis become more of a consistent threat.

 

[MHSL82]

I agree. I also think we're going to see Davis become more of a consistent threat.

Assuming he catches it this time. He was shut out against the Saints, but given the playoff game, I assume they were giving a concerted effort to stop him this time. And then he dropped his one target. It seemed that the Saints focused on him, but the Bears didn't. Seattle did. In 2009, no one did. I wonder if his slump had to do more with his opponents strategy than the QB (given that there was only one target in the Saints game).

 

[Flyingiguana]

whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Finally the days of your BS excuses and shape-shifting arguments are over; you can run along now.

you're an idiot who just trolls

 

[Flyingiguana]

Difference being 8th season versus second start.

As for Kaep's YPA versus Smith's, how much of that is YAC on the part of Smith, and Kaep throwing beyond 15 yards for completions? Not stirring the pot, just wondering how much of this is going on. From what I've seen, I'd lean toward Kaep hitting WR's down the field, while Smith relies on big plays from his recievers (not saying this is 100% the case, but I'd bet it is the majority).

I will say this, in Kaep's two starts I didn't think we would be relying on field position and FG's to win. In every Smith game previously, I have expected us to play for FG's and assume any 3rd down is likely seeing the ST's unit the next play (ANY 3rd down, not just the long ones). I think we'll see this is where Kaepernick separates himself from Smith in terms of performance, as well as the option to run more of the playbook.

funny how ppl used to bash smith for not giving his wr's a chance for yac. now that smith is much more accurate ppl bash smith saying his ypa is all yac.

welcome to the wco

 

[Bemular]

you're an idiot who just trolls

Awww, you crying bro?

 

[Bemular]

funny how ppl used to bash smith for not giving his wr's a chance for yac. now that smith is much more accurate ppl bash smith saying his ypa is all yac.

welcome to the wco

whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Finally the days of your BS excuses and shape-shifting arguments are over; you can run along now.