Please help me confirm that I am a sane football fan

[germanjohn]

Let me preface this with the following. I am a Cowboys fan. I had no emotional or financial investment in the Pats-Broncos game the other night.

That being said, here's what I posited to two of my friends.

I predicted that overall, the Patriots had a more well-rounded team whereas the Broncos were more offensively oriented, and that the Pats, had they played to their fullest, would end up winning the game. Obviously, this turned out to be wrong. After my D-bag friend called me out on it (he thought Denver's D was "good enough" to beat the Patriots in that game). He used the example that, because the pats were held scoreless for the first three quarters, Denver's defense played great. I disagree with this statement.

I think that Brady (love him or hate him) was responsible for a decent portion of his offense's impotence for the majority of the game. His throws were all over the place, and he didn't look like the QB he had shown himself to be throughout the year. I also think that the offensive play-calling was shit as well- over the course of the game, NE averaged more per run than Denver did. I think that NE did a crappy job when they decided to abandon their run game early on. If anything, I thought that their running would serve to build up enough momentum for Brady to get comfortable and start executing.

Still (in summary), my 2 friends keep chalking up the Broncos victory over the Pats to their defense's ability. I disagree. I think that NE's inability to find any kind of rhythm was caused by a mixture of Brady's erratic performance and bad play-calling. What do you guys think?

tl;dr: What was more responsible for the outcome of NE v. DEN? Was it NE's inability to perform, or did Denver's D just play that well?

 

[NEhomer]

Ditto to everything you said.

 

[cdumler7]

Let me preface this with the following. I am a Cowboys fan. I had no emotional or financial investment in the Pats-Broncos game the other night.

That being said, here's what I posited to two of my friends.

I predicted that overall, the Patriots had a more well-rounded team whereas the Broncos were more offensively oriented, and that the Pats, had they played to their fullest, would end up winning the game. Obviously, this turned out to be wrong. After my D-bag friend called me out on it (he thought Denver's D was "good enough" to beat the Patriots in that game). He used the example that, because the pats were held scoreless for the first three quarters, Denver's defense played great. I disagree with this statement.

I think that Brady (love him or hate him) was responsible for a decent portion of his offense's impotence for the majority of the game. His throws were all over the place, and he didn't look like the QB he had shown himself to be throughout the year. I also think that the offensive play-calling was shit as well- over the course of the game, NE averaged more per run than Denver did. I think that NE did a crappy job when they decided to abandon their run game early on. If anything, I thought that their running would serve to build up enough momentum for Brady to get comfortable and start executing.

Still (in summary), my 2 friends keep chalking up the Broncos victory over the Pats to their defense's ability. I disagree. I think that NE's inability to find any kind of rhythm was caused by a mixture of Brady's erratic performance and bad play-calling. What do you guys think?

tl;dr: What was more responsible for the outcome of NE v. DEN? Was it NE's inability to perform, or did Denver's D just play that well?

If you actually looked at the yards per carry after 3 quarters you would understand the run game had been completely shut down at that point. It wasn't until the Broncos went into a prevent defense and rushed 3 that the Patriots found success running the football. So I wouldn't say if they stuck with the run they would have been better. The Broncos came into the game daring Tom Brady to have to throw it deep to beat them and well yes he was off. The game should have been a lot closer than it was but it is not like the Broncos defense wasn't doing things to confuse him. Throw in the Bronco defense has actually been doing this for the last 4 games straight of completely shutting down offenses. The Pats were not the first. The Broncos finally got a few players healthy that weren't earlier in the year and the defense has played more like it did the season before than how they have performed this year.

 

[Perpetual_Beast_Mode]

I give Denver's defense a lot of credit, but I agree that Brady missed some important throws and NE's playcalling could have been a lot better. The NFL is basicially a pass-first league, with Seattle and SF being the only two teams to run the ball the majority of the time. I think more teams should COMMIT to the run the way that Seattle and SF do. If NE had done more of that, I think it would have put them in a lot more third and short situations and I think it might have helped the Patriots defense by controlling the clock and keeping Peyton off the field more (not that NE gave up a ton of points to the Broncos, but I think that running the ball a lot can make a defense even better. It seems to help out my Seahawks defense a lot).

 

[iknowftbll]

Ah, the age-old excuse of "It isn't so much they beat us but we didn't have our best game." As if Brady having a bad game happened in a vacuum with no external circumstances contributing. This, of course, is unmitigated bull$hit. There were external circumstances affecting the Pats game that day, namely the Broncos defense playing a good game as they have been for the past 4 games. They've been as good as any defense in the league in fact, getting it together at the right time.

But I'm sure that has nothing to do with why the Pats lost.

 

[tshirt]

here is what the Boston Globe wrote today after studying the film:

Some of Brady's reads and decision-making were strange.
Why, on third and 3 in the first quarter, did he throw a deep fade to a tightly covered Matthew Slater (of all people) when he had Danny Amendola streaking underneath for a potential first down?
Why did he throw a third-down slant to Austin Collie, also tightly covered, and not look at Hoomanawanui streaking wide open down the seam (the Rob Gronkowski special)?

And of course, there was Brady’s inaccuracy on deep balls to Julian Edelman and Collie

However, the offensive woes were hardly all on Brady. Brady’s receivers, which often included fullback James Develin and blocking tight end Michael Hoomanawanui split out wide, couldn’t create any separation until the Broncos went to a prevent defense in the fourth quarter.

The only way Edelman, Amendola, Collie, Aaron Dobson, and Hoomanawanui could create separation was through play-action, which was used 12 times on 41 dropbacks, with five completions for 86 yards.

But on straight dropback passes, Brady’s receivers couldn’t get open, and the offense stalled.

The Patriots’ offensive line couldn’t handle the Broncos’ physical, oversized front four, including 335-pound defensive tackle Terrance Knighton, 293-pound defensive end Malik Jackson, and 274-pound end Robert Ayers.

the run blocking was completely dominated by the Broncos. Center Ryan Wendell had a horrible time with Knighton, Dan Connolly consistently was overpowered by Sylvester Williams, and Marcus Cannon was handled several times by Ayers.

WR Julian Edelman was pretty much the only offensive player to show up, with 10 catches for 89 yards and a touchdown.

 

[Broncos6482]

Let me preface this with the following. I am a Cowboys fan. I had no emotional or financial investment in the Pats-Broncos game the other night.

That being said, here's what I posited to two of my friends.

I predicted that overall, the Patriots had a more well-rounded team whereas the Broncos were more offensively oriented, and that the Pats, had they played to their fullest, would end up winning the game. Obviously, this turned out to be wrong. After my D-bag friend called me out on it (he thought Denver's D was "good enough" to beat the Patriots in that game). He used the example that, because the pats were held scoreless for the first three quarters, Denver's defense played great. I disagree with this statement.

I think that Brady (love him or hate him) was responsible for a decent portion of his offense's impotence for the majority of the game. His throws were all over the place, and he didn't look like the QB he had shown himself to be throughout the year. I also think that the offensive play-calling was shit as well- over the course of the game, NE averaged more per run than Denver did. I think that NE did a crappy job when they decided to abandon their run game early on. If anything, I thought that their running would serve to build up enough momentum for Brady to get comfortable and start executing.

Still (in summary), my 2 friends keep chalking up the Broncos victory over the Pats to their defense's ability. I disagree. I think that NE's inability to find any kind of rhythm was caused by a mixture of Brady's erratic performance and bad play-calling. What do you guys think?

tl;dr: What was more responsible for the outcome of NE v. DEN? Was it NE's inability to perform, or did Denver's D just play that well?

I think it's fair to say it's some of both. What the Broncos defense did really well was take away the Patriots run game. That credit has to go to Denver. They also did a great job of playing tight coverage on the Patriots receivers. And while they didn't get a lot of pressure, they did manage to get sacks at very key times. So you have to give Denver's defense credit for all of that.

That said, Brady didn't play well. When his receivers did break open, he missed them. So that's on Brady. But I think that's partly do to Denver making him uncomfortable by taking away what their offense did well and limiting his opportunities to hurt them with big plays.

Ultimately, I think most of the credit has to go to Denver, with partial blame going to Brady. Something like 80/20 credit Denver/blame Brady.

 

[HammerDown]

We all know BB and McDaniels came into that game intending to run the damn ball and win the battle of possession. The only thing that makes sense is that Denver's D dominated them. Why? Because they made no adjustments. I was thinking the game wasn't going to start til the second half when NE made their adjustments and started executing their plan. It just never happened. When Denver got up, they went to prevent and by Brady's own admission, he made critical failures, though it's tough to say he lost the game since Denver would have just come back and tried harder. I'm puzzled as to why they didn't start hitting TE's and slot guys over the middle for 8-10 yards or go to the sidelines more and the only possible answers are that Denver's D was stifling and based on what they were seeing, they were afraid to put the ball in Brady's hands.

 

[Broncos6482]

We all know BB and McDaniels came into that game intending to run the damn ball and win the battle of possession. The only thing that makes sense is that Denver's D dominated them. Why? Because they made no adjustments. I was thinking the game wasn't going to start til the second half when NE made their adjustments and started executing their plan. It just never happened. When Denver got up, they went to prevent and by Brady's own admission, he made critical failures, though it's tough to say he lost the game since Denver would have just come back and tried harder. I'm puzzled as to why they didn't start hitting TE's and slot guys over the middle for 8-10 yards or go to the sidelines more and the only possible answers are that Denver's D was stifling and based on what they were seeing, they were afraid to put the ball in Brady's hands.

I think that went out the window with Denver's 7 minute drive that put them up 20-3 halfway through the 3rd quarter. Unlike the game in New England, the Patriots didn't get a chance to get some momentum by getting the ball first in the second half. By the time they got the ball in the second half, they were down 3 scores, their defense showed no signs of stopping Denver's offense, and there was now only about a quarter and a half of game time left. They were in scramble mode at that point and everyone knew it.

 

[NEhomer]

Unlike in New England it was a warm and balmy day!!!

DOH...SNAP!

 

[HammerDown]

I think that went out the window with Denver's 7 minute drive that put them up 20-3 halfway through the 3rd quarter. Unlike the game in New England, the Patriots didn't get a chance to get some momentum by getting the ball first in the second half. By the time they got the ball in the second half, they were down 3 scores, their defense showed no signs of stopping Denver's offense, and there was now only about a quarter and a half of game time left. They were in scramble mode at that point and everyone knew it.

A minute into the game Denver already held a major advantage after the initial 3-n-out by New England and the fact that they got the ball first in the 2nd half.

 

[Midnightangel]

You have to credit both the Denver defense and Tom's mistakes in passing. There were a few plays where the receiver was wide open and Brady just threw it over his head.

 

[tshirt]

Patriots.com:

highlights three key inaccurate passes by Brady:

1. On the Patriots' second possession, facing 3rd-and-3, OC Josh McDaniels called for a deep strike to seldom-used Matthew Slater . The special teams speedster had position to the inside of CB Tony Carter, but Brady's throw - with no pressure to speak of from the Broncos - was high and to the outside, forcing Slater to readjust to try to make the catch. If Brady could've made the throw more to the inside of the field, Slater may have had a reception for the 1st down

2. On New England's third possession, Brady and the offense executed a textbook play-action fake, which sprang WR Julian Edelman , lined up in the slot right, on a deep crossing route to the left sideline. Denver bit hard on Brady's fake handoff to RB LeGarrette Blount to the right, and Edelman got deep behind the Broncos secondary. Brady had no pressure whatsoever, but he looked like he rushed his throw to Edelman and overshot his target by a good two yards. Had the throw been more precise, Edelman would've scored, changing completely the dynamic of the game at that early juncture, when the Patriots were down 3-0.

3. On the fifth possession, with just seconds left in the half, Brady tried to get the ball downfield in a hurry. WR Austin Collie had beaten his man deep down the right sideline and had good separation. All Brady needed to do was drop the ball in there, but he fired too long, high, and wide for Collie's outstretched arms. The ball landed out of bounds. Probably wouldn't have been a score, like Edelman's deep ball earlier, but would have at least given New England a chance at a field goal attempt, if not more.


Highlights two key sacks by the Broncos:

1) New England had just two second-quarter possessions, the first of which ended with a field goal when Brady was sacked on 3rd-and-8 from the Denver 18. DE Robert Ayers just made a nice inside swim move on LT Nate Solder and darted into the backfield. Brady was a sitting duck.

2. The Patriots had just three possessions the entire second half: one of which ended on a 4th-down sack of Brady at the Denver 29. Rather than attempt a long field goal, down 20-3 at the time, Belichick and McDaniels went for it on 4th. Brady was in the gun with trips right, a back to his left, and a receiver to the left. DT Terrance Knighton, a thorn in New England’s side all day, used a swim move on Mankins, who was caught flat-footed as Knighton squirted inside. Easy takedown.


Notes on other aspects of game:

-The Patriots' run-blocking was uncharacteristically poor against Denver. New England's o-line and tight ends weren't getting good leverage or hand position on their defenders, who were shedding the would-be blocks with relative ease and stuffing Blount and Stevan Ridley for minimal gains. Still, the play-action fakes were being effective, as Denver seemed to respect the Patriots' rushing attack.

-Game ball goes to...WR Austin Collie - he caught four of six passes thrown his way, and one of his misses was a batted ball by the defender guarding him and the other was an poorly overthrown ball by Tom Brady. Collie's receptions were for critical gains and help keep drives alive. Team reception leader Julian Edelman was the primary target, as usual, but Collie stepped up and contributed, almost perfectly when the ball went his way. Collie did his job.

-Brady's receivers, including TE Michael Hoomanawanui, RB Shane Vereen , and rookie Aaron Dobson , made some really nice catches…Hooman made a couple of really tough catches in this game.

 

[nolehusker]

Denver it more responsible. They stopped the run game in basically the first 3 quarters and were all over the NE WR's so Brady couldn't make many throws. Did Brady make some mistakes? Yep, but I bet Denver's defense helped him make those mistakes.

 

[tshirt]

Patriots LG and co-captain Logan Mankins (who got beat on a swim move by Knighton to allow Brady to be sacked on a key 4th down):

“They played better than we did.” said Mankins.
“We didn’t do a good enough job today in any aspect. They played great, you’ve got to give them credit. They filled the holes, made the tackles… they outplayed us. One of those days when they were playing great and we weren’t and we needed to play very well to match those guys and just didn’t do it.”
“It’s tough. To battle all season, to make it to where you want to get to and lose this game, it’s very tough,” said Mankins.

 

[tshirt]

Patriots.com:

On defense, New England was missing easy tackles and allowing Denver receivers to run free like wild stallions. Alfonzo Dennard, in particular, looked unfairly over-matched trying to cover Demaryius Thomas. Even when Peyton Manning was bobbling the ball and throwing wounded-duck passes, his receivers were still finding ways to adjust and make the catch, even when Patriots defenders looked in position to make the play.

The Patriots couldn’t run the ball. Tom Brady was overthrowing wide – I mean WIDE – open receivers who’d gotten behind the defense and were on their way to the end zone.

 

[germanjohn]

I dunno. I just think that if both teams played like how they were known to play throughout the year, pats were more likely to win on paper.

 

[tshirt]

Associated Press:

Manning, less than three years removed from being unable to throw a football because of his surgically ravaged neck and nerve endings, threw for 400 yards, more dink-and-dunk than a fireworks show.

Manning knows how to make the most of the options he's been given.

This game started getting out of hand at about the same time Patriots Pro Bowl cornerback Aqib Talib went out with a knee injury. Nobody else could cover Thomas, and Manning, who finds mismatches even under the toughest of circumstances, found this one quickly. Thomas finished with seven catches for 134 yards.

Manning also geared down the no-huddle, hurry-up offense that helped him set records this season. The result: 93- and 80-yard touchdown drives that each lasted a few seconds over seven minutes; they were the two longest, time-wise, of the season for the Broncos.

The Broncos held the ball for 35:44. They were 7 for 13 on third-down conversions.

"To keep Tom Brady on the sideline is a good thing," Manning said. "That's something you try to do when you're playing the Patriots."

Brady, who threw for 277 yards, actually led the Patriots to a pair of fourth-quarter touchdowns. The second cut the deficit to 26-16 with 3:07 left, but the Broncos stopped Shane Vereen on the 2-point conversion and the celebration was on in Denver.

 

[Broncos6482]

I dunno. I just think that if both teams played like how they were known to play throughout the year, pats were more likely to win on paper.

I think if that game proved anything, it's that the Broncos were a far better team at that point in the season than the Patriots. There's a reason the Broncos were 5 point favorites, and the game bore it out. The Broncos were better on paper and on the field.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Let me preface this with the following. I am a Cowboys fan. I had no emotional or financial investment in the Pats-Broncos game the other night.

That being said, here's what I posited to two of my friends.

I predicted that overall, the Patriots had a more well-rounded team whereas the Broncos were more offensively oriented, and that the Pats, had they played to their fullest, would end up winning the game. Obviously, this turned out to be wrong. After my D-bag friend called me out on it (he thought Denver's D was "good enough" to beat the Patriots in that game). He used the example that, because the pats were held scoreless for the first three quarters, Denver's defense played great. I disagree with this statement.

I think that Brady (love him or hate him) was responsible for a decent portion of his offense's impotence for the majority of the game. His throws were all over the place, and he didn't look like the QB he had shown himself to be throughout the year. I also think that the offensive play-calling was shit as well- over the course of the game, NE averaged more per run than Denver did. I think that NE did a crappy job when they decided to abandon their run game early on. If anything, I thought that their running would serve to build up enough momentum for Brady to get comfortable and start executing.

Still (in summary), my 2 friends keep chalking up the Broncos victory over the Pats to their defense's ability. I disagree. I think that NE's inability to find any kind of rhythm was caused by a mixture of Brady's erratic performance and bad play-calling. What do you guys think?

tl;dr: What was more responsible for the outcome of NE v. DEN? Was it NE's inability to perform, or did Denver's D just play that well?

I saw it differently, The Patriots did not sack manning once. The Pats did not even touch him during the game. (No QB hits.) Denver scored on every drive except one. Maybe they were more concerned about covering the receivers,but that did not work. They should have put more pressure on Manning.