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It's really not that complicated: Mahomes is that dude

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So Belichick is basically a bum that would have been fired 20 years ago if not for the great Tom Brady. But he's also still the best defensive coach in NFL history.

Seems like a QB would really benefit from having that kind of a guy around his whole career.

Nevermind that. Poor Tom Brady.

How in the world did he ever overcome all the dogshit coaches and players he had to drag with him his whole career. He woulda won every game if not for all those bums.

: -(

Patriots Super Bowls with Brady... highlighted the Pats defense kept opponent to 21 points or less.

Throw on top of that:
  • Falcons Super Bowl defense gave up 21 points... 1 TD was 80 yard pick six. Defense held Falcons for 1 1/2 qtrs off the scoreboard to allow the comeback
  • Seahawks Super Bowl with Butler interception at end to hold Seahawks to only 24 points and preserve the win
Brady is a competitor... wins a lot of close games. Patriots defense put him in that spot many times to win the close games IMO.. especially on the big stage.

Defense played huge role in 5 of the Pats Super Bowl wins... defense did their part vs Eli in 2 more games.

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msgkings322

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I'd still take Brady today. He's proven he can win the SB in a variety of ways over two decades, without the physical talent that Mahomes has shown. His mental toughness, intelligence and competitive spirit is off the charts. Not saying Mahomes can't get there - he's absolutely the leading candidate to repeat that level of dominance. For now, I think I'll take the guy that already proved it.
My OP was less about that and more about how this Super Bowl is probably going KC's way because they have Mahomes. All the analysis is fine but in the end, KC has that dude.
 

Dean_Youngblood

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My OP was less about that and more about how this Super Bowl is probably going KC's way because they have Mahomes. All the analysis is fine but in the end, KC has that dude.
Mahomes is definitely "that dude". This is a pick 'em to me. If the 9ers find their way back to the type of defense they were playing during the regular season... and if Shanahan comes up with a better game plan out of the gate compared to the GB/DET games you could say they potentially have the advantage. That's a lot of "ifs". If it's a narrow 9er lead with less than 4 min in the game and Mahomes gets the ball - I wouldn't like the 9ers chances, though. That's the biggest edge that Mahomes has being "that dude", imo.

Edit: and to your original point, I actually like the 9ers chances better if they score 27+ points... much more concerned with a low-to-mid 20's scoring game.
 

msgkings322

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Mahomes is definitely "that dude". This is a pick 'em to me. If the 9ers find their way back to the type of defense they were playing during the regular season... and if Shanahan comes up with a better game plan out of the gate compared to the GB/DET games you could say they potentially have the advantage. That's a lot of "ifs". If it's a narrow 9er lead with less than 4 min in the game and Mahomes gets the ball - I wouldn't like the 9ers chances, though. That's the biggest edge that Mahomes has being "that dude", imo.

Edit: and to your original point, I actually like the 9ers chances better if they score 27+ points... much more concerned with a low-to-mid 20's scoring game.
Yeah I can't see the Niners holding KC to under 28 points, if they win they will have to outscore them, which they are definitely capable of

Fun when the teams are basically even. Just feels like in a close game that's when 'that dude' matters most.
 

Dean_Youngblood

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Yeah I can't see the Niners holding KC to under 28 points, if they win they will have to outscore them, which they are definitely capable of

Fun when the teams are basically even. Just feels like in a close game that's when 'that dude' matters most.
KC is absolutely capable of scoring 28 pts... but they have yet to do that in the playoffs (even against banged-up Dolphins and Bills teams). I'm not sure that the 9ers defense has fallen off enough for me to say that KC "definitely" breaks that pattern.
 

msgkings322

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KC is absolutely capable of scoring 28 pts... but they have yet to do that in the playoffs (even against banged-up Dolphins and Bills teams). I'm not sure that the 9ers defense has fallen off enough for me to say that KC "definitely" breaks that pattern.
One thing is certain, it's that nothing is certain this game LOL
 
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and if Shanahan comes up with a better game plan out of the gate compared to the GB/DET

Think the Samuel injury early in game kind of put a dent into his game plan vs GB. Also did not help with weather.... Purdy may not be best inclement weather QB I am starting to believe.
 
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KC is absolutely capable of scoring 28 pts... but they have yet to do that in the playoffs (even against banged-up Dolphins and Bills teams). I'm not sure that the 9ers defense has fallen off enough for me to say that KC "definitely" breaks that pattern.

Agree... expecting KC to score 17-27 points. Also expecting game to be close entering 4th quarter.

If close in final 5-6 minutes I like KC to win because of Mahomes.
 

Dean_Youngblood

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Think the Samuel injury early in game kind of put a dent into his game plan vs GB. Also did not help with weather.... Purdy may not be best inclement weather QB I am starting to believe.
Totally... seemed to me like the game plan heavily relied on Deebo and when he went down it limited what they wanted to do. Add in the weather and the fact that GB came to play, it seemed like a perfect storm. Purdy totally struggled with the wet ball. Something he needs to figure out going forward because it rains a lot in SF during January (historically anyway).
 

msgkings322

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Agree... expecting KC to score 17-27 points. Also expecting game to be close entering 4th quarter.

If close in final 5-6 minutes I like KC to win because of Mahomes.
I think Niners fans would prefer to be down 2 points and get the ball with 1:50 left than to be up 2 points and KC getting the ball with 1:50 left
 

Dean_Youngblood

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Agree... expecting KC to score 17-27 points. Also expecting game to be close entering 4th quarter.

If close in final 5-6 minutes I like KC to win because of Mahomes.
I would rather Mahomes not have the ball last :cool:
 

Wamu

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Carson Wentz > Mahomes

signed- RTK

Andy Dalton > Mahomes

signed- mrschaney
 

mrschaney

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If we take just 1 category, career TD passes, Mahomes would have to throw 43 touchdown passes a year for the next 10 years to catch Brady. Mahomes did throw 50 one season, but after that, he has never thrown for 43 td's in a single season. Mahomes would have to win 5 more Super Bowls to tie Brady in SB Wins, again tough.
I think if anyone could challenge Brady as the goat, it could be Mahomes but it is still too early to tell but the one thing that will always set them apart is Brady beating Mahomes in the Super Bowl. If the 49ers win Sunday, Purdy will be the next future goat until next year.
 

Fountain City Blues

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Only thing I am really gonna say is this:

Statistically, there isn't really any debate in saying Mahomes has had the best start to his career of all time, it's actually not super close as of now, and it's not explainable by purely eras. If he wins the SB, you can include the rings portion of that and Tom Brady's QBwinz warlock-ass legacy as well.

That has gravity.
 

msgkings322

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If we take just 1 category, career TD passes, Mahomes would have to throw 43 touchdown passes a year for the next 10 years to catch Brady. Mahomes did throw 50 one season, but after that, he has never thrown for 43 td's in a single season. Mahomes would have to win 5 more Super Bowls to tie Brady in SB Wins, again tough.
I think if anyone could challenge Brady as the goat, it could be Mahomes but it is still too early to tell but the one thing that will always set them apart is Brady beating Mahomes in the Super Bowl. If the 49ers win Sunday, Purdy will be the next future goat until next year.
No, Purdy will never be considered the GOAT, he's not that guy nor will he ever achieve that kind of status. Mahomes to me is a better QB than Brady was at the same age, mainly due to his legs.
 

Fountain City Blues

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No, Purdy will never be considered the GOAT, he's not that guy nor will he ever achieve that kind of status. Mahomes to me is a better QB than Brady was at the same age, mainly due to his legs.
Mahomes is 2nd in the league in EPA added with his legs behind Josh Allen.
 
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Statistically, there isn't really any debate in saying Mahomes has had the best start to his career of all time, it's actually not super close as of now, and it's not explainable by purely eras.

Unsure what stats you are talking about and how far back you are going to compare....

But the NFL of 60s/70s is different than 80s/early 90s and that is different than it is now.

Couple of things no stat can account for:
  • NFL becoming more professional - players used to have 2nd jobs, training camp was also about getting into football shape... college players come much more prepared to step into NFL 1st year now
  • NFL moving from run to pass league
  • Rules changes - moving hash marks in, illegal contact downfield by DBs, OL can extend arms blocking, emphasis of downfield contact, protection for QBs, protection for WRs going across middle of field
Mahomes is the best there is now... and I could agree if comparing to QBs in past 10-20 years... but doubt you can convince me is so much better (not super close) than Unitas in the 50s/60s or Marino in the 80s/90s and their career starts and the stats they put in their eras.
 

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