Penalties for and against, Carroll's big gripe

[Mondio]

this isn't about Seattles penalties this is about the lack there of on their opponents. Teams keep putting up their season low or close to it against the Hawks lol 11 out of the 12 teams. This is what we are talking about. How can every team have their season low in penalties every time they face the Seahawks? see what we are saying?

and

It is also about Seattle's penalties. When I read articles like the ones in this thread I always think, if you torture numbers enough, they'll tell you anything. For one, they aren't comparing penalties, only accepted ones. There's one variable to move numbers one way or another. Then they just tell us that about half of their opponents have one of their lowest penalty totals of the year. OK, what were the overall penalties called in that game compared to the rest of the league? If it was also one of the lowest called games compared to the rest of the league, then what does that really tell us?

we all know some teams of officials call a lot more fouls than others, which groups are at the Hawks games? How do all those totals compare to the league, and add all penalties, not just accepted. Once you start cooking numbers, I get very skeptical very quickly.

and Seattle's presnap absolutely matter. I've said it before, but I haven't watched Seattle beyond the first third of the season maybe, mostly due to time. I like watching them. I can't say I remember anything out of the ordinary concerning penalties. I have heard from seattle fans and others that they are committing a lot of pre-snap penalties and that matters if it is true.

if team A gets 4 penalties and Seattle gets 6, but then tacks on 4 pre-snap penalties, is it really significant? hardly. a difference of 2 during the play judgement type penalties a game isn't anything and certainly not anything to write a conspiracy story about.

Every time I read one of these I think of the meeting between the Hawks and Denver where I saw Seattle defender leave his feet and blast manning in the head with no call, and a defender go right to Welker's head on an INT with no call and then I think of how much less is called every week all over the league.

 

[BoBlake]

Really puts a damper on the fantasy game when the Mannings and Brady's get stuffed. They are trying to sell scoring and defensive football keeps getting pushed under the rug.

Fantasy sports are over a month before the Superbowl.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Biggest penalty issue this year with Seattle getting screwed is lack of holding calls on our D-Line. I feel like PI/defensive penalties (against our O) are fairly spot on, and offsides/etc. is blatantly obvious. But the refs have let opponents get away with some MAJOR holds on offense which I believe is responsible for our low sack #s.

Calling offensive holding is usually up to the ref discretion wise (since holding happens on nearly every play to some degree) but the degree they've let teams get away with it against Seattle is pretty ridiculous (from watching the games).

Now it may be that other teams are getting away with a ton of offensive holding as well (doubt it) to further the "Give them offense!" mentality of the NFL but I doubt it.

 

[Screamin12th]

and

It is also about Seattle's penalties. When I read articles like the ones in this thread I always think, if you torture numbers enough, they'll tell you anything. For one, they aren't comparing penalties, only accepted ones. There's one variable to move numbers one way or another. Then they just tell us that about half of their opponents have one of their lowest penalty totals of the year. OK, what were the overall penalties called in that game compared to the rest of the league? If it was also one of the lowest called games compared to the rest of the league, then what does that really tell us?

we all know some teams of officials call a lot more fouls than others, which groups are at the Hawks games? How do all those totals compare to the league, and add all penalties, not just accepted. Once you start cooking numbers, I get very skeptical very quickly.

and Seattle's presnap absolutely matter. I've said it before, but I haven't watched Seattle beyond the first third of the season maybe, mostly due to time. I like watching them. I can't say I remember anything out of the ordinary concerning penalties. I have heard from seattle fans and others that they are committing a lot of pre-snap penalties and that matters if it is true.

if team A gets 4 penalties and Seattle gets 6, but then tacks on 4 pre-snap penalties, is it really significant? hardly. a difference of 2 during the play judgement type penalties a game isn't anything and certainly not anything to write a conspiracy story about.

Every time I read one of these I think of the meeting between the Hawks and Denver where I saw Seattle defender leave his feet and blast manning in the head with no call, and a defender go right to Welker's head on an INT with no call and then I think of how much less is called every week all over the league.

MAJOR

leave the Hawks penalties out of this good god LMAO

The League average is around 6 per game, the Average a team gets Vs the Hawks is 3. The Average the teams the Hawks have face not counting the Hawks games are 6.3, the Average they get when playing the Hawks is 3. See a pattern? Like i said this has NOTHING to do with the Hawks penalties. Ignore them completely.

are people really this dense? what do they not understand?

 

[geezer]

Gb fans went off their rockers over the fail mary even though it was shown to be the correct call. They were screaming to anyone who would listen! Their team pulled the most unsportsmanlike move in football history by walking off the field before the game was over. Tie goes to the offense. And it made absolutely zero difference in seeding.
For them to come here and lecture us about penalties just takes the cake. I would ban them just for showing up here. The Niner fans are even more cordial.

 

[Mondio]

MAJOR

leave the Hawks penalties out of this good god LMAO

The League average is around 6 per game, the Average a team gets Vs the Hawks is 3. The Average the teams the Hawks have face not counting the Hawks games are 6.3, the Average they get when playing the Hawks is 3. See a pattern? Like i said this has NOTHING to do with the Hawks penalties. Ignore them completely.

are people really this dense? what do they not understand?

double major

we can do this all day. You just don't get that by including and excluding certain criteria, whether they be about penalties or whatever "theory" you're trying to prove, you can cook data and get it to say whatever you want.

So, overall in those games where teams were called for fewer than their average, what was the average for that game compared to the rest of the league? Higher or lower?

and if you can't get the difference between a team making a lot of pre-snap penalties having a higher penalty count than a team that doesn't and how it really has no effing bearing on how officials are seeing the game, you might want to watch who you're calling dense.

but I guess asking those questions and finding the answers is tougher than just believing the conspiracy theory huh?

 

[Mondio]

Gb fans went off their rockers over the fail mary even though it was shown to be the correct call. They were screaming to anyone who would listen! Their team pulled the most unsportsmanlike move in football history by walking off the field before the game was over. Tie goes to the offense. And it made absolutely zero difference in seeding.
For them to come here and lecture us about penalties just takes the cake. I would ban them just for showing up here. The Niner fans are even more cordial.

and we can't let the game go LOL

 

[geezer]

double major

we can do this all day. You just don't get that by including and excluding certain criteria, whether they be about penalties or whatever "theory" you're trying to prove, you can cook data and get it to say whatever you want.

So, overall in those games where teams were called for fewer than their average, what was the average for that game compared to the rest of the league? Higher or lower?

and if you can't get the difference between a team making a lot of pre-snap penalties having a higher penalty count than a team that doesn't and how it really has no effing bearing on how officials are seeing the game, you might want to watch who you're calling dense.

but I guess asking those questions and finding the answers is tougher than just believing the conspiracy theory huh?

You didn't read or look at the graph. Please go back to the packers board.

 

[Mondio]

You didn't read or look at the graph. Please go back to the packers board.

oh, I did and maybe if you didn't have your victim glasses on, you might see some of what i'm talking about. But you're probably right, the league and officials just hate the Seahawks, i'm surprised they even let you win some games. LOL

anyway, carry on.

 

[flyerhawk]

double major

we can do this all day. You just don't get that by including and excluding certain criteria, whether they be about penalties or whatever "theory" you're trying to prove, you can cook data and get it to say whatever you want.

So, overall in those games where teams were called for fewer than their average, what was the average for that game compared to the rest of the league? Higher or lower?

and if you can't get the difference between a team making a lot of pre-snap penalties having a higher penalty count than a team that doesn't and how it really has no effing bearing on how officials are seeing the game, you might want to watch who you're calling dense.

but I guess asking those questions and finding the answers is tougher than just believing the conspiracy theory huh?

Ask and ye shall receive....

POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

The Seahawks have the fewest penalties called against opponents in the league. Not only that they have that spot by a very wide margin.

The Seahawks' opponents get 4.3 penalties called against them a game. The Broncos are 2nd at 5.7. If you add that 1.4 penalty per game gap to the Broncos total, you get all the way up to the No. 9 team in the league. Redskins opponents have had roughly twice as many penalties called against them as the Seahawks have.

Now I don't know the reason for this but I do find it odd that the two teams that have had the fewest penalties called against their opponents were the Super Bowl teams last year.

 

[Screamin12th]

Ask and ye shall receive....

POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

The Seahawks have the fewest penalties called against opponents in the league. Not only that they have that spot by a very wide margin.

The Seahawks' opponents get 4.3 penalties called against them a game. The Broncos are 2nd at 5.7. If you add that 1.4 penalty per game gap to the Broncos total, you get all the way up to the No. 9 team in the league. Redskins opponents have had roughly twice as many penalties called against them as the Seahawks have.

Now I don't know the reason for this but I do find it odd that the two teams that have had the fewest penalties called against their opponents were the Super Bowl teams last year.

I gave up trying to educate him. The guys brains are made out of cheese, He just doesn't get what we are saying. For some reason he thinks were are comparing the Hawks penalties to their opponents and FAILS to see we are comparing the hawks OPPONENTS penalty totals when playing the Hawks and when playing OTHER teams and how there is a massive drop for penalties against when playing the Hawks. And i mean MASSIVE.

got to love him sticking the on his post and continuing to himself over and OVER lmao it's pretty funny.

 

[geezer]

In one of his press conferences, Pete said they were talking with the league about the penalty situation.

There is something wrong with this situation. I think its time to investigate this issue going back several seasons to see if there is any kind of pattern here or if this is just a major one time anomaly. And I am not just referring to the Seahawks. I want to look at all teams. And especially those who have won the superbowl.

At this point, if I was the owner, I would take that graph and shove it in Goodell's face and ask WTF right before I started a petition among the owners to fire him!

 

[Mondio]

I gave up trying to educate him. The guys brains are made out of cheese, He just doesn't get what we are saying. For some reason he thinks were are comparing the Hawks penalties to their opponents and FAILS to see we are comparing the hawks OPPONENTS penalty totals when playing the Hawks and when playing OTHER teams and how there is a massive drop for penalties against when playing the Hawks. And i mean MASSIVE.

got to love him sticking the on his post and continuing to himself over and OVER lmao it's pretty funny.

what are you trying to educate me on? I read the story, both times it was posted. Said the same thing twice I think what you mean to say is you're trying to get me to ignore all the variables that need to be addressed and only see it from your point. Well, I don't much care for woe is me stat tortured articls

I asked some very relevant questions, what does it say when my swiss cheese cheddar head can come up with them and you don't understand them?

I just took a little look see at these stats, since nobody was willing, able, or wanted to admit what the answers might be.

against GB 8 penalties on GB to 4 for Seattle, we'll ignore that one, because the league really loves it some GB Packers and will try any way possible to yellow flag them to victory, but since this game doesn't fit the woe is me Seattle story line, we'll just by pass it.

2nd game against San Diego. 6 penalties on SD and 8 on Seattle. a difference of 2 penalties. No presnap penalties for SD and 1 offsides, 2 false starts and 1 declined PI for Seattle, meaning they were actually called for less penalties than San Diego by 2 overall, but since they commit so many presnap, they actually created an unfavorable differential.

3rd Game against Denver. Denver was flagged for 5 penalties, 4 that were accepted, 2 of which were presnap. Seattle flagged for 7 with 2 false starts and 2 offsides and declined an illegal motion on Denver. So in reality we have a difference of 5 penalties called on Denver and 7 for Seattle, 4 of which were presnap again. If they just got the start of the play right, Denver would actually have been called for more penalties than Seattle, but I guess that doesn't fit the tortured stat theory that the league is out to get Seattle.

4th Game. Redskins with 3 and Seattle with 13. WOW, big difference. Washington may have had one offsides, I can't tell if i mismarked or really marked one. Seattle had 3 offsides penalties 4 false starts and 1 delay of game. That's 8 pre-snap, non play penalties EIGHT out of 13, that's over half. and you want to whine about the low totals for other teams

5th game. Dal with 6 (8 called, Seattle declined 2 Dfensive Holding) Seattle with 9. Dal had 1 pre-snap with a delay. Seattle had 12 men on the field, 3 false starts and an offsides. That's 5 presnap penalties again out of 9. 1 during a play penalty more called than Dallas had and you guys think the league is out to get you.

I've wasted enough time already, it would be interesting to see someone do that for the rest of the games, but i'm not wasting more time on it. If you guys want to be pissed, I think you should look at Bennett and Okung. Those guys come up a lot on the penalty sheet for pre-snap penalties.

Or instead, you can keep focusing on the other team's penalties and think that's the issue.

 

[flyerhawk]

You really are just going to ignore what everyone else is saying and just keep saying the same thing over.

REGARDLESS of how many penalties the Seahawks have committed, the Seahawks opponents have been the least penalized teams in the league. The 2nd fewest calls against a team is the Denver Broncos who have nearly 50% more penalties called against their opponent.


The Seahawks are the 3rd most penalized team in the league and no one is arguing that this is in anyway unfair. But it is odd that the Seahawks opponents get so few penalties called against them.

 

[Mondio]

i'm not ignoring anything. You really don't see the correlation. You keep saying that these teams are having their lowest totals of the season, and really it was less than half of the teams they played that have. BFD, and it's really not any deal when Seattle would be getting called for the same or LESS than those same teams, if they didn't commit the pre-snap penalties.

you don't get that? you can't see that? out of those first 5 games i looked at IF Seattle isn't committing all those pre-snap and alignment penalties they are being called for the same or less amount than their opponents in almost every one of those games. You don't think that's significant? or you just think it's the league against the Seahawks again?

without all of those pre-snap and alignment penalties, in those games played Seattle could ALSO claim to be one of the least penalized teams in the league and have very low totals every week.

 

[BoBlake]

what are you trying to educate me on? I read the story, both times it was posted. Said the same thing twice I think what you mean to say is you're trying to get me to ignore all the variables that need to be addressed and only see it from your point. Well, I don't much care for woe is me stat tortured articls

I asked some very relevant questions, what does it say when my swiss cheese cheddar head can come up with them and you don't understand them?

I just took a little look see at these stats, since nobody was willing, able, or wanted to admit what the answers might be.

against GB 8 penalties on GB to 4 for Seattle, we'll ignore that one, because the league really loves it some GB Packers and will try any way possible to yellow flag them to victory, but since this game doesn't fit the woe is me Seattle story line, we'll just by pass it.

2nd game against San Diego. 6 penalties on SD and 8 on Seattle. a difference of 2 penalties. No presnap penalties for SD and 1 offsides, 2 false starts and 1 declined PI for Seattle, meaning they were actually called for less penalties than San Diego by 2 overall, but since they commit so many presnap, they actually created an unfavorable differential.

3rd Game against Denver. Denver was flagged for 5 penalties, 4 that were accepted, 2 of which were presnap. Seattle flagged for 7 with 2 false starts and 2 offsides and declined an illegal motion on Denver. So in reality we have a difference of 5 penalties called on Denver and 7 for Seattle, 4 of which were presnap again. If they just got the start of the play right, Denver would actually have been called for more penalties than Seattle, but I guess that doesn't fit the tortured stat theory that the league is out to get Seattle.

4th Game. Redskins with 3 and Seattle with 13. WOW, big difference. Washington may have had one offsides, I can't tell if i mismarked or really marked one. Seattle had 3 offsides penalties 4 false starts and 1 delay of game. That's 8 pre-snap, non play penalties EIGHT out of 13, that's over half. and you want to whine about the low totals for other teams

5th game. Dal with 6 (8 called, Seattle declined 2 Dfensive Holding) Seattle with 9. Dal had 1 pre-snap with a delay. Seattle had 12 men on the field, 3 false starts and an offsides. That's 5 presnap penalties again out of 9. 1 during a play penalty more called than Dallas had and you guys think the league is out to get you.

I've wasted enough time already, it would be interesting to see someone do that for the rest of the games, but i'm not wasting more time on it. If you guys want to be pissed, I think you should look at Bennett and Okung. Those guys come up a lot on the penalty sheet for pre-snap penalties.

Or instead, you can keep focusing on the other team's penalties and think that's the issue.

Nice job. The only problem here is Seattle's pre-snap penalties.

Whining about penalties, in ANY FORM, is just baseless whining and makes people ignore any other salient point you may have.

 

[geezer]

Stop it, it is my sports god given right to complain about penalties. The only thing sweeter than the league admitting they have their heads up their butz would be beating GB in GB for the NFC championship. That's why GB fans are on this board. They are worried. They haven't done so well against the NFC west lately.
Take that you passers of cheeze gas!
And if they don't apologize to the entire Seahawk board for the tantrums they had over Golden Tate's legitimate pass reception, we shall taunt them some more!

 

[Screamin12th]

LMAO this is to funny, these people are not getting it at all.

i'll make it kindergarten level.

Team A commits an Average of 7 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game. ( against G )
Team B commits an Average of 8 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game. ( against G )
Team C commits an Average of 7.3 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game. ( against G )
Team D commits an Average of 7 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game. ( against G )
Team E commits an Average of 8.3 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game.( against G )
Team F commits an Average of 6.7 fouls a game 10 times in a row except for 1 game. ( against G )

Teams A, B, C, D, E, F commit ONLY 3 FOULS AGAINST TEAM G. All other games are 6.7 to 8.3.

 

[jakedog56]

Good post Screamin. Let's hope these fucking idiots can actually figure what the actual situation is instead of just making assumptions. This has nothing to do with how many penalties the Seahawks are getting, it is about how many penalties their opponents are getting.

It is stupid to think that it is coincidence that all of the Seahawks' opponents are somehow magically playing next to penalty free football when they play Seattle but revert to making two to two and a half times as many penalties against everyone else.

 

[Mondio]

Except every team in those first 5 was flagged for more than 3 fouls against team G . Anyway, its equally likely that officials are calling less penalties period in the Seahawk games, to allow for a more physical game. But you're probably right, the NFL and the officials are all against the Seahwks. Lol