Penalties for and against, Carroll's big gripe

[Screamin12th]

So the Hawks once again lead the NFL in flags against, this is no shocker for us fans of the Hawks. The team plays hard and this tends to lead to more flags being thrown. The problem is the amount of flags being thrown on the other teams. I believe Pete is going about this the wrong way. He is saying he wants it to be more even or more balanced. Well that won't happen but what should happen is teams SHOULDN'T be getting less penalties than they normally get when playing the Hawks and THIS is the real issue.

So lets take a look at this more closely ( Seahawks Average 8.5 per game )
49ers: average 7 per game they got 3 when playing the Hawks. More than a 50% reduction
Cards: average a little over 6 per game, they also only were flagged 3 times. 50%+ reduction
Rams: average 7.5 per game, they got flagged 2 times against the Hawks. Around a 73% reduction

( just doing the NFC West teams, No need to drag other division posters in here crying foul )

A good test this Coming Sunday as the Eagles are also flagged a lot at over 7 per game average. If they somehow pull of a massive turn around in flags against then i believe a RED flag does truly need to start flying.

Pete makes it sound like "if we get flagged this much then other teams deserve more" but what i believe he is meaning is " why are other teams posting their lowest flag totals of the year against us"

The Hawks play a hard smash mouth style game, flags will happen BUT these type of teams also force more flags to be thrown against the team they are playing as they try and match that intensity. This is not happening. Teams are matching that intensity but are getting away with more and posting their lowest flag totals against for the season. ( KC game anyone )

 

[Podunkparte]

It's tough to not sound homerish when arguing this kind of stuff since it's difficult to accumulate info on penalties that are correct or incorrect.

Bottom line to me is

A. Either we need more refs to watch less action per ref or we need to give the refs less to have to watch for (Too much going on for the officials to be accurate in their calls)

or

B. It's time to allow challenge flags to be thrown on penalties with a neutral arbitrator watching to say whether a penalty should or should not have been issued.

I think the cleanest resolution is A since B brings up a whole lot of grey area and "interpretation" arguments. The officials just have too much to watch for and too many people in their ears about what calls should be enforced more than others. Get back to the letters of the rules and let the game be played.

 

[MrS]

The refs miss obvious cslls on our opponents multiple times s game.

I wont forget the announcer during thh rams game say that any time an OL tackles a DL they will get flagged. The rams got away with it on a pivotal 3rd down conversion.

 

[Screamin12th]

Don't you all find it a little strange though that these teams i listed had some of their lowest penalty games of the season against the Hawks? I found it strange when i was digging up the stats on it. I was one that actually didn't think much about it. I was more in the line of " you are getting more called against you because you are bitching about it" that was until i noticed some of these teams are near the top in fouls against yet they drop down to less than half their per game average when they played the Hawks.

I believe the refs are looking so hard to catch the Hawks doing something wrong that they are not focusing on BOTH teams evenly all because of the notion that the "HAWKS" are the reason these new rules were added.

 

[Mondio]

I'd be curious to know just what those flags were thrown for

 

[STBR 27]

Good article about this exact subject: POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

 

[Uhsplit]

Hereis a thread I created on the main board 1 week ago. Initially, I thought the better teams were being picked on more than the lesser rans, but the further I looked it came into view that it was our team that has been looked at more closely by the officials.
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...eral-discussion/172586-penalty-imbalance.html

 

[Screamin12th]

Good article about this exact subject: POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

this is great and points to what i was saying, The one graph they have is mind blowing. The Hawks dot so far out there all by itself when pretty much everyone else is bunched up all together. The bunched up all together part should be how all the teams look, but alas there is the Hawks sitting out on that island.

Thanks for sharing that link, i love it when i feel justified in my posts with more facts

 

[SonnyCID]

Good article about this exact subject: POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

Hereis a thread I created on the main board 1 week ago. Initially, I thought the better teams were being picked on more than the lesser rans, but the further I looked it came into view that it was our team that has been looked at more closely by the officials.
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/...eral-discussion/172586-penalty-imbalance.html

I remember your thread Uh, and I didn't really understand completely what you were getting at. Honestly, I have been more concerned with the Hawk own pre-snap penalties to worry about the flags the other teams is getting. But after seeing STBR's link, I am floored at those numbers. They are dead last, with the largest difference from the team ahead of them in those rankings (1.4 flags per game difference / next largest difference between two teams in the rankings is half that). It makes me think back to the fact that the NFL went out of their way to ensure no home PT games for Seattle (Besides the TNF opener, which they are obligated to), and it is tough not to feel like the league is slighting them.

It's all good though… I know those boys feel the same way, and want to take it out on everyone.

 

[Uhsplit]

I remember your thread Uh, and I didn't really understand completely what you were getting at. Honestly, I have been more concerned with the Hawk own pre-snap penalties to worry about the flags the other teams is getting. But after seeing STBR's link, I am floored at those numbers. They are dead last, with the largest difference from the team ahead of them in those rankings (1.4 flags per game difference / next largest difference between two teams in the rankings is half that). It makes me think back to the fact that the NFL went out of their way to ensure no home PT games for Seattle (Besides the TNF opener, which they are obligated to), and it is tough not to feel like the league is slighting them.

It's all good though… I know those boys feel the same way, and want to take it out on everyone.

No prob Sonny. Usually I can't understand me either.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The refs miss obvious cslls on our opponents multiple times s game.

I wont forget the announcer during thh rams game say that any time an OL tackles a DL they will get flagged. The rams got away with it on a pivotal 3rd down conversion.

Not to mention the PI in the Chiefs game on Baldwin... MAN you just have to call that when DB is beat so badly he just pushes the receiver blatantly... How that wasn't called still baffles me ... Last week vs the 49rs the refs were just killing us as well... Pete has a right to voice his opinion on this, because it's clear the league has got a hard on for us.... Something is up when it's this lopsided every @#^ing game...

 

[MKHawk]

How much of the discrepancy involves pre-snap penalties? The Hawks are very sloppy with those penalties.

 

[SonnyCID]

How much of the discrepancy involves pre-snap penalties? The Hawks are very sloppy with those penalties.

This isn't about the Hawk's penalties. We all can agree that they earn their share. This is about the the lack of penalties for the opponents.

 

[Mondio]

This isn't about the Hawk's penalties. We all can agree that they earn their share. This is about the the lack of penalties for the opponents.

If seattle has 8 penalties a game and half of those are pre-snap penalties, well that's all on them. Really has very little to do with the refs. So what type they are does matter. if they're only getting 1 a game, the a discrepancy of 9-1 is significant, maybe.

If they're getting 4 pre-snap a game and their opponent is getting none, then it's a discrepancy of like 2 between the teams, which is nothing more than fodder to write a "woe is me" article.

So the types of penalties are important. I haven't watched many of their games this year. But I have heard from Hawk and other fans, they are committing a lot of pre-snap penalties.

 

[SonnyCID]

If seattle has 8 penalties a game and half of those are pre-snap penalties, well that's all on them. Really has very little to do with the refs. So what type they are does matter. if they're only getting 1 a game, the a discrepancy of 9-1 is significant, maybe.

If they're getting 4 pre-snap a game and their opponent is getting none, then it's a discrepancy of like 2 between the teams, which is nothing more than fodder to write a "woe is me" article.

So the types of penalties are important. I haven't watched many of their games this year. But I have heard from Hawk and other fans, they are committing a lot of pre-snap penalties.

Oh, for sure… Nobody is denying the Hawk's pre snap penalties.

This is what we're talking about.
POW! Seahawks? 2014 opponents are the least penalized team in NFL - Field Gulls

I'm not one to usually join these conversations about penalties because they do come off as "woe is me". But this differential is eye opening because I don't feel that teams are playing any cleaner or more disciplined against Seattle than anyone else. And recently, we have seen some egregious no calls right in front of refs that really make me shake my head. I'm not calling foul, but I do wonder.

 

[STBR 27]

If seattle has 8 penalties a game and half of those are pre-snap penalties, well that's all on them. Really has very little to do with the refs. So what type they are does matter. if they're only getting 1 a game, the a discrepancy of 9-1 is significant, maybe.

If they're getting 4 pre-snap a game and their opponent is getting none, then it's a discrepancy of like 2 between the teams, which is nothing more than fodder to write a "woe is me" article.

So the types of penalties are important. I haven't watched many of their games this year. But I have heard from Hawk and other fans, they are committing a lot of pre-snap penalties.

Hawks are commiting a TON of pre-snap penalties and most of the ones called elsewhere are legit too, but this thread is not about Hawk's penalties, it is about the number of penalties that Hawk's opponents are getting (or not getting as the article linked above shows!!).

Like screaming stated, 49ers average 7 per game, but only got 3 when playing the Hawks and so on. As the article states, 11 of 12 teams the Hawks played are BELOW their average number of penalites on days they play the Seahawks. Which is either that they ALL commit less penalties ONLY when playing the Seahawks, or the refs call less fouls against the Hawks opponents....you decide which you want to believe.

 

[geezer]

Its okay to tackle our defensive lineman. Didn't you know that! Happens almost every game and no call.

The league needs to get this right. If people have even an inkling the league might be biased or "fixed" as in our first superbowl, things get ugly.

 

[geezer]

If you believe in conspiracies, then it is the NFL's worst nightmare for the Hawks to get to the superbowl and have another blow out/ shut out of the leagues premiere offenses. Really puts a damper on the fantasy game when the Mannings and Brady's get stuffed. They are trying to sell scoring and defensive football keeps getting pushed under the rug.

They want to sell these offensive stars and it throws a wrench in things when they can't throw for multiple TD's. Expect to see more rules next season to make it even harder for the defense.

GB and either Denver or NE are almost a lock to get to the superbowl if the conspiracy holds. GB has an average defense so it would be a shoot out which is what the league wants. It is so much easier for the refs to throw a game with non calls. Way too obvious to make controversial calls.

If they had made the correct call instead of a letter of apology in KC, we would be in first place with the tie breakers. The leagues worst nightmare.

 

[Destroydacre]

While I agree some of the flags (or non-flags on opponents) are suspect, the Seahawks must cut out the pre-snap penalties which make up a huge chunk of the calls that have gone against them this year. The amount of false starts (at home in particular) and defensive offsides they've had this year is absurd. Of course it doesn't help matters that when a defender is in the neutral zone and the offense jumps, it's a false start, at least if Seattle is on offense. :rollseyes:

 

[Screamin12th]

While I agree some of the flags (or non-flags on opponents) are suspect, the Seahawks must cut out the pre-snap penalties which make up a huge chunk of the calls that have gone against them this year. The amount of false starts (at home in particular) and defensive offsides they've had this year is absurd. Of course it doesn't help matters that when a defender is in the neutral zone and the offense jumps, it's a false start, at least if Seattle is on offense. :rollseyes:

this isn't about Seattles penalties this is about the lack there of on their opponents. Teams keep putting up their season low or close to it against the Hawks lol 11 out of the 12 teams. This is what we are talking about. How can every team have their season low in penalties every time they face the Seahawks? see what we are saying?