Pats accused of cheating again

[KwitYerWhinin]

Because not only do pats fans not acknowledge this they start bringing up dynasty talk which is completely absurd when there was a scandal involving their team. If you're caught cheating in the Olympics you are stripped of your medals. When the Russians took it to another level with blood doping the whole ski team was kicked out. Unfortunately in football the pats get to keep their trophy but we should at least be able to place an asterisk beside those wins as fans of the game to acknowledge that the win was tainted.

Who cares if they acknowledge it or not, I bet that doesn't change your opinion. The only fan I see that still thinks the Pats are a Dynasty is Briz. Is Briz a good representation of any fan base ?? I reckon not

 

[LogicMan]

Right after the Bradshaw era when all the news came up about promoted Steroid use in the Steelers locker room everyone around the league complained the the Steelers cheated by introducing performance enhancing drugs, notably to their lineman. They had at that time the inside scoop on its advantage, hence unusual dominating lines like the steel curtain. Some said they cheated.

It blew over in time. Spygate is the same thing. It will take time.

 

[Midnightangel]

Right after the Bradshaw era when all the news came up about promoted Steroid use in the Steelers locker room everyone around the league complained the the Steelers cheated by introducing performance enhancing drugs, notably to their lineman. They had at that time the inside scoop on its advantage, hence unusual dominating lines like the steel curtain. Some said they cheated.

It blew over in time. Spygate is the same thing. It will take time.

Couple things here, Cochise....

1) Steroids were not introduced by the Steelers, they were introduced by the Chargers.

2) They were legal at the time. No NFL rule against it existed.


When it comes to Spygate, there was a rule and BB broke it.

Secondly, the fact that you're still bringing up steriods means that it never blew over. It's something for which Steeler fans have to answer for from time to time.

You, for the rest of your life, will have to do the same with Spygate. Get comfortable with that. And I mean that in the most sincere, and heart felt way possible. Just accept that you're going to have to answer for it. Don't get mad...it just comes with being a Pats fan - just like answering for Steroids comes with being a Steelers fan.

Saints fans will have to do the same with Bountygate.

 

[LogicMan]

Angel, you'll fail if you try to defend Performance Enhancing drugs as not cheating. It was made illegal in all sports as it was determined to give unfair advantage to those that took it. NFL saw it first, so they instituted the ban

Relative to the Pats, I already know they cheated. Your wasting your time on that debate with me.

 

[Midnightangel]

Angel, you'll fail if you try to defend Performance Enhancing drugs as not cheating. It was made illegal in all sports as it was determined to give unfair advantage to those that took it. NFL saw it first, so they instituted the ban

Relative to the Pats, I already know they cheated. Your wasting your time on that debate with me.

Again, steroids were legal in the 70's. The NFL didn't outlaw them until the late 80's.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Spygate is a delusion for the delusional. Every single team tries to get the upper hand, and do it in not so mysterious ways. Spygate is an excuse to teams that couldn't beat the Pats. Many coaches have come out and said they had similar practices. At some point you have to move on.

I could whine about the many missed calls in the NFCCG but bottom line, the Seahawks won.

 

[LogicMan]

The IOC and then all sports ruled that Performance Enhancing Drugs provided an unfair advantage. Its about ethics vs "legality". Some sports stripped players of their titles for it. Many ex-NFL players wrote books about their anger of some players use of it.

You seem adamant to defend it vs accept it as cheating. Why ? Its an old story now. Move on

 

[LogicMan]

Robotic Dreams, many teams filmed from that location in previous years. But when the NFL said stop, Bill started up the next season still filming from that point. I feel he knew that, so ethically he was cheating at that point.

Its about ethics in the end. Or he was just dumb. Hard to seperate.

 

[Midnightangel]

The IOC and then all sports ruled that Performance Enhancing Drugs provided an unfair advantage. Its about ethics vs "legality". Some sports stripped players of their titles for it. Many ex-NFL players wrote books about their anger of some players use of it.

You seem adamant to defend it vs accept it as cheating. Why ? Its an old story now. Move on

The rules of the IOC don't apply to the NFL. Not sure why you even dragged them into it.

It boils down to the NFL allowed steroid use in the 70's and they didn't allow taping in the 00's. Thus the Pats were cheating and the Steelers weren't.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Robotic Dreams, many teams filmed from that location in previous years. But when the NFL said stop, Bill started up the next season still filming from that point. I feel he knew that, so ethically he was cheating at that point.

Its about ethics in the end. Or he was just dumb. Hard to seperate.

He was arrogant and got caught. Does that diminish the fact that other teams gained any sort of advantage in previous years? No. Just like 'BountyGate,' it was commonplace. It's an excuse and a tired one.

 

[JasonCarrier]

The rules of the IOC don't apply to the NFL. Not sure why you even dragged them into it.

It boils down to the NFL allowed steroid use in the 70's and they didn't allow taping in the 00's. Thus the Pats were cheating and the Steelers weren't.

What?

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

this is from 2011: https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=H.5047000064199816&pid=15.1

This is from the second press conference from the NFL

Impact on games?
Again, according to NFL policy, it is permissible to scout people’s coaching signals, and as you know, clubs go to great lengths to protect those. They change them frequently and they change them during the game.


I find it funny that people are not asking why the Jets were not fined. Or that the league dropped it, when they were clearly filming NE all because of that green vest.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Angel, you'll fail if you try to defend Performance Enhancing drugs as not cheating. It was made illegal in all sports as it was determined to give unfair advantage to those that took it. NFL saw it first, so they instituted the ban

Relative to the Pats, I already know they cheated. Your wasting your time on that debate with me.

Logic I'll give you props for being the first pats fan to acknowledge this. It is what it is. At the same time PED's are definitely bad but most of the time it's an individual renegade who's doing them not a whole team. With spygate BB essentially affected his whole teams performance similar to the Russian blood doping scandal. This took things to another level. Either way midnight is right unfortunately at that time there were no rules against this so they weren't breaking rules whereas BB was.

Some fans are saying let it go as everyone was doing it well its hard as we never received any solid evidence proving this. What we do know is that the NFL caught the pats and slapped heavy penalties on them then brushed it under the carpet. There was no real closure but if they slap an asterisk by those wins I guess we could all say ya they won but those wins were questionable due to their coach's action. We'll simply never know to what extent but no one can deny that the pats did partake in spygate the other teams who did and to what extent will remain a mystery as the NFL didn't prosecute them.

 

[Midnightangel]

What?

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

this is from 2011: https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=H.5047000064199816&pid=15.1

This is from the second press conference from the NFL

Impact on games?
Again, according to NFL policy, it is permissible to scout people’s coaching signals, and as you know, clubs go to great lengths to protect those. They change them frequently and they change them during the game.


I find it funny that people are not asking why the Jets were not fined. Or that the league dropped it, when they were clearly filming NE all because of that green vest.

You're confusing 'scouting' with 'taping'.

You can watch people throwing in signals all day long, when you start taping them, that's when you go awry.

It removes the human element.

If you watch someone sending in signals all day long with the naked eye, you're not going to remember all of them and it's hard to share that information with others.

If you tape, both of those problems are solved.

Hence why it's illegal.

 

[JasonCarrier]

You're confusing 'scouting' with 'taping'.

You can watch people throwing in signals all day long, when you start taping them, that's when you go awry.

It removes the human element.

If you watch someone sending in signals all day long with the naked eye, you're not going to remember all of them and it's hard to share that information with others.

If you tape, both of those problems are solved.

Hence why it's illegal.

Rule says differently.

You still have not explained if all filming is illegal, especially from the sideline, why the Jets were not fined. They were filming NE.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Rule says differently.

You still have not explained if all filming is illegal, especially from the sideline, why the Jets were not fined. They were filming NE.

You may have a case there Jason and if the jets were filming illegally you may want to bring that to the attention with someone at the NFL offices and ask the question. As a fan you deserve an answer and since your team was penalized why shouldn't others who've done so? Please keep us up to date on what you find out...

 

[Midnightangel]

Rule says differently.

You still have not explained if all filming is illegal, especially from the sideline, why the Jets were not fined. They were filming NE.

Actually, the rules DON'T say differently. But keep trying to spin that.

You're not allowed to video tape, period. You can SCOUT the other guys signals but not TAPE them and I challenge you to show me otherwise.

 

[JasonCarrier]

Actually, the rules DON'T say differently. But keep trying to spin that.

You're not allowed to video tape, period. You can SCOUT the other guys signals but not TAPE them and I challenge you to show me otherwise.

Filming from the sideline

No Penalty

Why?

 

[JasonCarrier]

I can see the Steeler's camera guy. Can you? (hint diagonal right from the fresno sign)

Yet no fine.

How come?

 

[LogicMan]

Listen guys, cheating has been around for along time. Whether its performance enhancing drugs, filming signals s w/o the other teams knowledge, pumping in sounds, paying off refs, using wider tires, messing with draft factors on cars, fuel mixtures, not sanctioned practices, stealing playbooks, etc.

In the end its about ethics. Our society once learning about the cheating, loves to then tarnish the culprits. In almost every case, fans try to defend their variant, stars, history, etc. Its situational ethics. Good thing is, once its discovered, the broader population sees the reality.

 

[Rico&SkooterTwoPeasInAPod]

Listen guys, cheating has been around for along time. Whether its performance enhancing drugs, filming signals s w/o the other teams knowledge, pumping in sounds, paying off refs, using wider tires, messing with draft factors on cars, fuel mixtures, not sanctioned practices, stealing playbooks, etc.

In the end its about ethics. Our society once learning about the cheating, loves to then tarnish the culprits. In almost every case, fans try to defend their variant, stars, history, etc. Its situational ethics. Good thing is, once its discovered, the broader population sees the reality.

Reality that the Patriots are known cheaters and their dignity and ethics have been completely destroyed? Thanks for clarifying the obvious....

- Everyone fan outside of Boston