Our Texas Rangers at the Los Angeles Angels (9/5 - 9/7)

[Windingmywatch]

Only here would I get into arguments about the merits between Sogard and Kinsler...nowhere else on the planet is this a discussion. Kinsler has to have back to back down years for Sogard to even been close. This is Sogard's ceiling and it's still not as good as Kinsler's floor. Romeo please save this debate.

Start here ... http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3552481-post149.html

and here ... http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3550977-post134.html

You guys know one thing about me is I don't throw out WAR as the sole argument. Statistically you can see exactly why Sogard bats where he does and his value in comparison to Elvis and Kinsler.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Rev ... you got to do better than this as a basis for an argument or comparison ...

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3550455-post130.html

 

[Windingmywatch]

From my earlier ...

Sogard 1st AB against an SP: 93AB ... 12R 37H 9-2b 3-3b 1-HR 13RBI .398 .429 .570 .998
Kinsler 1st AB against an SP: 98AB .... 12R 22H 3-2b 0-3b 1-HR. 4RBI .224 .291 .286 .577

Just saying ... Sogard makes stuff happen ... whether he's batting 8th or 9th ... just means he's OB in front of the top of the order. Seems like a good spot for him.

 

[Hambombs]

He might not have a carrer full of stats to prove past years. But that doesn't matter right now. What sogard has done this year only matters now.

 

[RevSader]

Rev ... you got to do better than this as a basis for an argument or comparison ...

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3550455-post130.html

I didn't start the comparison. I corrected both of you when you called him clutch. He's not clutch....It was you and hambombs both that brought Kinsler and Elvis into the equation. Only after did I mention Murphy or Soto as being light hitters.

My irrational dislike of Sogard is actually backed up by numbers that say he's not that good, so maybe it's more rational than I think. I never once used my dislike of him as a argument against him as a player though. I used the data available to me that clearly show he's not clutch, nor he is that outstanding in any relevant manner to the game of baseball. He's a role player and that's it.

 

[RevSader]

He might not have a carrer full of stats to prove past years. But that doesn't matter right now. What sogard has done this year only matters now.

I've shown you he's done nothing of merit this year. Can you not accept that? I've proven your assertions about him wrong TIME and TIME again. He's not good by any conceivable relevant metric. He's a role player. Please just admit that you are wrong, so I never have to talk about this midget wizard ever again.

 

[RevSader]

From my earlier ...

Sogard 1st AB against an SP: 93AB ... 12R 37H 9-2b 3-3b 1-HR 13RBI .398 .429 .570 .998
Kinsler 1st AB against an SP: 98AB .... 12R 22H 3-2b 0-3b 1-HR. 4RBI .224 .291 .286 .577

Just saying ... Sogard makes stuff happen ... whether he's batting 8th or 9th ... just means he's OB in front of the top of the order. Seems like a good spot for him.

Making stuff happen...that's not anything but a cherry picked assortment of irrelevant data. You called him clutch...Then later redacted that to "he makes stuff happen." No one player can make stuff happen. He can get on base, and it's up to the other players to do anything about it. Table setter would be a better term, but even that data doesn't show him to be all that prolific of setting said table.

 

[Hambombs]

I've shown you he's done nothing of merit this year. Can you not accept that? I've proven your assertions about him wrong TIME and TIME again. He's not good by any conceivable relevant metric. He's a role player. Please just admit that you are wrong, so I never have to talk about this midget wizard ever again.

I'm just saying sogard has had a breakout year in his standards while kinsler is haveing a bad year in his standards that is all.

 

[Hambombs]

Anyone see what Evan grant said about yu?

 

[Hambombs]

Anyone see what Evan grant said about yu?


Grant: No getting around it, disciplined teams hammer Yu Darvish | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - SportsDayDFW

 

[RevSader]

Anyone see what Evan grant said about yu?

Yes, and I still think it's a lot of noise. Yu had a bad game because of his command. He was walking guys on 4 straight pitches. Had nothing to do with their patience. They actually helped him out by chasing the breaking balls when he had settled down. His fastball command was non existent.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Making stuff happen...that's not anything but a cherry picked assortment of irrelevant data. You called him clutch...Then later redacted that to "he makes stuff happen." No one player can make stuff happen. He can get on base, and it's up to the other players to do anything about it. Table setter would be a better term, but even that data doesn't show him to be all that prolific of setting said table.

I'll stick with "makes stuff happen" ... and his numbers out of the #8-9 spot are better than the guy whose ABs were in the #1 or #3 spot for the specific first time through the order event.

Sogard 1st AB against an SP: 93AB ... 12R 37H 9-2b 3-3b 1-HR 13RBI .398 .429 .570 .998
Kinsler 1st AB against an SP: 98AB .... 12R 22H 3-2b 0-3b 1-HR. 4RBI .224 .291 .286 .577

I'll go with your "table setter" label. Last night he led off the bottom of the 8th with a triple which led to two runs when OAK had done nothing all night. Wasn't against the SP the first time he saw him so the triple above is not that triple.

I would rather be able to say "he makes stuff happen" ... than your statement:

"He's really irrelevant and I shouldn't care, but he just bugs me. He's just this guy that for whatever reason makes me irrationally angry when I see him".

Never did tell me what makes you "irrationally angry" about him.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Anyone see what Evan grant said about yu?


Grant: No getting around it, disciplined teams hammer Yu Darvish | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - SportsDayDFW

I'll read it later when I have more time. Anytime I see an EG piece that is as long as a Jamey Newberg piece ... I tend to put it aside.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Yes, and I still think it's a lot of noise. Yu had a bad game because of his command. He was walking guys on 4 straight pitches. Had nothing to do with their patience. They actually helped him out by chasing the breaking balls when he had settled down. His fastball command was non existent.

Agree Rev ... he had to fight all day. I think Wash was trying to salvage a QS for him after the leadoff walk in the 6th. I think TEX opinion of Barton's past performance led them to leave him in`. One AB too many.

 

[RevSader]

I'll stick with "makes stuff happen" ... and his numbers out of the #8-9 spot are better than the guy whose ABs were in the #1 or #3 spot for the specific first time through the order event.

Sogard 1st AB against an SP: 93AB ... 12R 37H 9-2b 3-3b 1-HR 13RBI .398 .429 .570 .998
Kinsler 1st AB against an SP: 98AB .... 12R 22H 3-2b 0-3b 1-HR. 4RBI .224 .291 .286 .577

I'll go with your "table setter" label. Last night he led off the bottom of the 8th with a triple which led to two runs when OAK had done nothing all night. Wasn't against the SP the first time he saw him so the triple above is not that triple.

I would rather be able to say "he makes stuff happen" ... than your statement:

"He's really irrelevant and I shouldn't care, but he just bugs me. He's just this guy that for whatever reason makes me irrationally angry when I see him".

Never did tell me what makes you "irrationally angry" about him.

I don't know about you, but I don't make it a habit of being fans of the players on division rivals. Playing for Oakland is enough reason for me to irrationally dislike any player. That has nothing to do with their ability or them as people. I just hate divisional opponents and always will. That's part of being a fan to me. Fan is short for fanatic after all.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I don't know about you, but I don't make it a habit of being fans of the players on division rivals. Playing for Oakland is enough reason for me to irrationally dislike any player. That has nothing to do with their ability or them as people. I just hate divisional opponents and always will. That's part of being a fan to me. Fan is short for fanatic after all.

Didn't say I was a fan of Sogard. Just appreciate how he plays the game.

Only ball players that I don't like that come to mind for me are Alex Rodriguez and John Lackey. There aren't any that I hate. Just something I don't do.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Hope we rough up CJ good -- again. Could be a good night for Beltre and Kinsler to get back on track. Also a good opportunity for Garza to build on his stellar start against MN.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Hope we rough up CJ good -- again. Could be a good night for Beltre and Kinsler to get back on track. Also a good opportunity for Garza to build on his stellar start against MN.

There are a slew of guys who have good numbers against CJ....

C.J. Wilson vs. Batters - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[RevSader]

Didn't say I was a fan of Sogard. Just appreciate how he plays the game.

Only ball players that I don't like that come to mind for me are Alex Rodriguez and John Lackey. There aren't any that I hate. Just something I don't do.

When I say hate I mean it in the same way Jesus used it in Luke and YHWH did in the old testament. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Hambombs]

Yes, and I still think it's a lot of noise. Yu had a bad game because of his command. He was walking guys on 4 straight pitches. Had nothing to do with their patience. They actually helped him out by chasing the breaking balls when he had settled down. His fastball command was non existent.

Ir certainly is a lot of noise indeed