Our Next QB

[noonthirtyjoe]

They don't? Maybe my memory is bad, but wasn't last year's SB winner a running QB? And...uhh...Kaepernick's playoff record is 4-2.

I don't particularly want a running QB, but I don't think your line of reasoning is why or really holds up all that well on this one.

A great Def that did not have to rely on a running QB won it last year.

 

[NCChiFan]

Kaepernickle is a bad QB. Not only that, but don't think the 49'ers can swallow Jay's remaining contract. RGIII might be the only worse qb of those mentioned above.

 

[richig07]

They don't? Maybe my memory is bad, but wasn't last year's SB winner a running QB? And...uhh...Kaepernick's playoff record is 4-2.

I don't particularly want a running QB, but I don't think your line of reasoning is why or really holds up all that well on this one.

Russell Wilson is not a running QB. He's a mobile QB capable of running. He became very successful due to the fact that he relied on his running ability only to evade pressure and pickup yardage when he had to. The fact the he is intelligent, and progressed as a passer is why he had success last season.

And Kaep had short term success, but like EVERY other run-first QB. He plateaued, and then regressed. They have quicker success in the short term as opposed to pocket passers, because of their athletic ability. However, it's nothing more than a temporary short cut. Kaep, RGIII, Vick, etc… never learned how to play quarterback. They never learned to read defense's, and they continued to fall back on their athletic ability when all else failed. That will catch up to you in the NFL, and it will eventually be the end of you.

The window for any running QB to win a SB is very small, it has to happen quickly. Kaep's came and went. He will never see success again in the NFL. Take it to the bank.

 

[richig07]

Kaep wins vs. the Packers... regular season and post season. Might want to ensure Capers remains as DC first however.

Yeah, and Rex Grossman won vs the Packers... I'm not interested in him either.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm not talking about a replacement. If Philly sours on Folk, maybe, but I dont think they put all the eggs in Sanchez' basket.

If a top 3 QB is available at your pick in the first or second round, you take him and slate him to start for this team in 2017.

The only guy I think Trestman can fix is a guy like Tebow, someone who have been out of the league for a few years and desperately needs a new chance. If Sanchez wasnt playing in Philly, maybe, but for now we need to get rid of Kromer and Tucker and see if Jay can work with the next guy.

 

[richig07]

I'm not talking about a replacement. If Philly sours on Folk, maybe, but I dont think they put all the eggs in Sanchez' basket.

If a top 3 QB is available at your pick in the first or second round, you take him and slate him to start for this team in 2017.

The only guy I think Trestman can fix is a guy like Tebow, someone who have been out of the league for a few years and desperately needs a new chance. If Sanchez wasnt playing in Philly, maybe, but for now we need to get rid of Kromer and Tucker and see if Jay can work with the next guy.

Yeah… totally. What this team needs is the single worst passer in NFL history. That will totally solve all of this team's problems.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Russell Wilson is not a running QB. He's a mobile QB capable of running. He became very successful due to the fact that he relied on his running ability only to evade pressure and pickup yardage when he had to. The fact the he is intelligent, and progressed as a passer is why he had success last season.

And Kaep had short term success, but like EVERY other run-first QB. He plateaued, and then regressed. They have quicker success in the short term as opposed to pocket passers, because of their athletic ability. However, it's nothing more than a temporary short cut. Kaep, RGIII, Vick, etc… never learned how to play quarterback. They never learned to read defense's, and they continued to fall back on their athletic ability when all else failed. That will catch up to you in the NFL, and it will eventually be the end of you.

The window for any running QB to win a SB is very small, it has to happen quickly. Kaep's came and went. He will never see success again in the NFL. Take it to the bank.

Russell Wilson, according to virtually everyone I know, is considering a running QB. Which is why he leads the league by a wide margin in rush attempts. You don't agree, fine, but in most universes he is.

Saying you would take Cutler 100 times vs Kaep is, to me, crazy. The 2012 Kaepernick playoff games - simply from his snaps as a pocket passer - he blew away anything Cutler has ever delivered in the playoffs.

And have you forgotten the first rushing QB of note, Steve Young? He wasn't too bad. I think my problem is making some kind of absolutist statement like you did. First of all, virtually nothing in football follows such binary "laws" like "running QBs can't do it." I think that's nuts. Yes, I get it that relying on running can mask or retard pocket passing skills, no kidding, and I don't personally want the Bears to switch to a running QB philosophy, but I wouldn't be caught dead making some kind of statement like "running QBs can't win in the playoffs", because they have, they can, and they will. Certainly more than our fabulous Cadillac-priced QB has.

Running QBs are interesting, but you have to realize that the struggles a lot of them are facing this year is precisely because they are being forced to stay home more, not be let loose, which defeats the whole advantage they bring to the table. That 2014 coaches are keeping the reins on doesn't mean they will be held back in 2015 or 2017 or 2021, and it is naive to assume that. Cam Newton, who is not what I would call a great QB, is probably a better decision-making QB than a few of the more notable pocket QBs (certainly including Cutler). I would certainly not say something along the lines of the fact that Cam will never win a Super Bowl, because he might, and the same goes for Kaepernick, RG3, and Wilson (again). Plus whoever else winds up following down that road, which someone is bound to.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I'm with rich on this one. I haven't seen a pure running QB win enough- or be healthy for long enough to win with simply running.
Cali, you cited Steve Young, while he was an exceptional runner, he was also one of the more accurate and better passers too. Same as Rodgers (though he's a class by himself- can do it all)

Wilson is a better passer then Cam, RG3, Vick, Geno, Bridgewater.

Guys that were good at running the ball and won a SB...progressed to become better/good pocket passers too. (and I think that's why they won...or had supreme Defenses or other reasons they won- like Seattle)
Come to think of it who started their career as a "running QB" and became a SB winner?
Big Ben? Rodger Staubach? Doug Williams?- All good passers too.

Cunningham, Culpepper, Vick, McNabb... No SB's. Those guys got better later in their career as pocket passers and won some games...but not enough. I don't see Johnny Football doing it either.
I would steer clear of pure running QB's.
And...Cadillac?....more like Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari... Cadillac's aren't as expensive as Jay. LOL.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

The Bears have a horrible coaching staff and the worst defense in the NFL, but fans want to get rid of a QB with a 91.7 passer rating. HILARIOUS. Fans really don't realize that there are much bigger problems than Cutler? Cutler WON under Lovie Smith. He made it to the championship game. The following year he was rolling towards the playoffs at 7-3, but broke his thumb. They only won 1 game the rest of the season with the backup. Cutler went 10-6 the year Lovie got fired, and missed the playoffs on an unlucky tiebreaker. Cutler's record as starting QB under Lovie was VERY good. Give Jay a decent defense, and he wins. The answer is not to get rid of him. Improve the defense and get a decent coach in here!

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Dude, spare us already, we have already shoved that argument back down your throat. And since the one statistic you are trying to cite in Cutler's "defense", passing rating, has him 16th in the league, how is that an argument for anything?

Yes, the coaching is messed up and so is the defense. So is Cutler. But Cutler is paid the most and has the ball in his hands. He's the main problem with this team.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

When the defense is giving up 50 points some games, it's pretty clear that's the biggest problem. When you need a QB to score almost every possession just to have a chance, it's a hopeless situation. I don't think there are many QBs that would have a winning record on this Bears team this year. Maybe just the most elite, like Aaron Rodgers. No one is claiming Cutler is elite. His passer rating is 91.7, and the league average is 88.3. So he's far from elite, but he's playing above average football. He's playing well enough that the Bears would have a winning record if they had a decent defense.


It's not Cutler's fault that he's paid so much. The Bears didn't have to give him that big of a contract. Cutler said he wanted to stay in Chicago and was not threatening to go to any other teams. He didn't even start negotiations with any other teams. He even said he would stay for a discount. The Bears could have kept him for less money. That's the Bears' stupidity for overpaying, not anything negative on Cutler.

 

[nomoreshoop]

is Cutler better than Stenstrom, PT Willis, Moreno, Mirer... Certainly. Could Aaron Rodgers have won games for us while the defense was bleeding 50+ points, Certainly not, and certainly not with the asswipe of an Off Coordinator we now know we have. We got zero defense, crappy special teams, that needs fixing, that's like 40 some players that have to be replaced or whipped into shape. Cutler needs another year before he's roasted (IMHO) and Tucker needs to be shown the door NOW! Replace the coordinators now and give Trestman 2 years with them or wait a year and flush the whole thing, are the choices I see.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

When the defense is giving up 50 points some games, it's pretty clear that's the biggest problem. When you need a QB to score almost every possession just to have a chance, it's a hopeless situation. I don't think there are many QBs that would have a winning record on this Bears team this year. Maybe just the most elite, like Aaron Rodgers. No one is claiming Cutler is elite. His passer rating is 91.7, and the league average is 88.3. So he's far from elite, but he's playing above average football. He's playing well enough that the Bears would have a winning record if they had a decent defense.


It's not Cutler's fault that he's paid so much. The Bears didn't have to give him that big of a contract. Cutler said he wanted to stay in Chicago and was not threatening to go to any other teams. He didn't even start negotiations with any other teams. He even said he would stay for a discount. The Bears could have kept him for less money. That's the Bears' stupidity for overpaying, not anything negative on Cutler.

16th in the league is not "above average". As has been explained to you repeatedly, his turnovers, which are generally recognized as under-weighted in passer rating, are game-killers, and he makes a lot of his stats when it doesn't matter. Not all, but more than average. It IS his responsibility he is paid so much...he did, in case this isn't obvious, SIGN IT. Signing a contract is accepting responsibility, and he has been given everything to succeed. We've repeatedly replaced coordinators, he has the best skill position players in the league, the offense is one of the most highly paid, chews up most of the salary cap, and this team has bent over backwards for him. We even hired a fucking Canadian coach for him. This coach calls a fast short yardage offense. And he has single-handedly cost us games as much as, if not more than, the defense. I don't think you watch tape if you have somehow not noticed this. Even the short completions he makes come at the expense of completely open downfield receivers more often than is normal or acceptable for a starting-grade QB, much less one who signed the league-richest contract.

Jay Cutler has sucked. To go with it, the team chemistry is clearly totally fucked right now, and the main subject of why is "Jay Cutler". You can kiss his ass all you want, he can suck my dick right now. You want to cite his 16th-ranked passer rating as refuting all this, go right ahead, but to me that just comes across as plain retarded.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

The average passer rating in the NFL right now is 88.3. Cutler's is 91.7. So if you don't think Cutler's passer rating is above average, then you're REALLY bad at math. The 16th number is deceiving because he's bunched together with several QBs that have played well with ratings in the low-mid 90s. Cutler is only 4.2 points away from the 9th rated passer. 91.7 is a good rating. If you think he has sucked, then you don't know much about football.


I also guess I have to explain this to you again, since you seem to have a hard time understanding. Yes Cutler has piled up extra stats because of garbage time, but he's also piled up extra INTs because of garbage time. 3 or 4 of his INTs have been on meaningless end of game or end of half hail mary plays, and INTs are a killer for passer rating. I don't know if his passer rating has been helped more or hurt more by garbage time play. It seems pretty close. For example in the Detroit game, Cutler had a rating over 100 early in the game when it was close. His rating fell during garbage time with the 2 meaningless INTs, including the one on the last play where he just threw it up to the endzone for the heck of it. Even this last game vs Dallas is an example. Cutler's rating in the 1st half was over 100. It fell to the 80s in the 2nd half during garbage time. If you add them all up, it's possible garbage time actually hurt his passer rating more than it helped it this season. When you're in desperation mode way behind, you take more chances and throw more INTs.

 

[richig07]

The average passer rating in the NFL right now is 88.3. Cutler's is 91.7. So if you don't think Cutler's passer rating is above average, then you're REALLY bad at math. The 16th number is deceiving because he's bunched together with several QBs that have played well with ratings in the low-mid 90s. Cutler is only 4.2 points away from the 9th rated passer. 91.7 is a good rating. If you think he has sucked, then you don't know much about football.


I also guess I have to explain this to you again, since you seem to have a hard time understanding. Yes Cutler has piled up extra stats because of garbage time, but he's also piled up extra INTs because of garbage time. 3 or 4 of his INTs have been on meaningless end of game or end of half hail mary plays, and INTs are a killer for passer rating. I don't know if his passer rating has been helped more or hurt more by garbage time play. It seems pretty close. For example in the Detroit game, Cutler had a rating over 100 early in the game when it was close. His rating fell during garbage time with the 2 meaningless INTs, including the one on the last play where he just threw it up to the endzone for the heck of it. Even this last game vs Dallas is an example. Cutler's rating in the 1st half was over 100. It fell to the 80s in the 2nd half during garbage time. If you add them all up, it's possible garbage time actually hurt his passer rating more than it helped it this season. When you're in desperation mode way behind, you take more chances and throw more INTs.

I'll reiterate what Cubz asked you… because it seems you're the one that doesn't get it.

Do you watch the games? Or just look at stat lines?

 

[nebearsfan70]

They don't? Maybe my memory is bad, but wasn't last year's SB winner a running QB? And...uhh...Kaepernick's playoff record is 4-2.

I don't particularly want a running QB, but I don't think your line of reasoning is why or really holds up all that well on this one.

I seem to remember Randall Cunningham, Steve a Young, Donovan McNabb as well.

 

[nebearsfan70]

I'm with rich on this one. I haven't seen a pure running QB win enough- or be healthy for long enough to win with simply running.
Cali, you cited Steve Young, while he was an exceptional runner, he was also one of the more accurate and better passers too. Same as Rodgers (though he's a class by himself- can do it all)

Wilson is a better passer then Cam, RG3, Vick, Geno, Bridgewater.

Guys that were good at running the ball and won a SB...progressed to become better/good pocket passers too. (and I think that's why they won...or had supreme Defenses or other reasons they won- like Seattle)
Come to think of it who started their career as a "running QB" and became a SB winner?
Big Ben? Rodger Staubach? Doug Williams?- All good passers too.

Cunningham, Culpepper, Vick, McNabb... No SB's. Those guys got better later in their career as pocket passers and won some games...but not enough. I don't see Johnny Football doing it either.
I would steer clear of pure running QB's.
And...Cadillac?....more like Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari... Cadillac's aren't as expensive as Jay. LOL.

Young is known as a running QB, in fact he is one of the leading rushing QBs of all time. He still has the most rushing yards for any QB in the list season and he has the most rushing TDs by a QB in the post season. He also is the only MVP of a SB to be the QB and leading rusher fir the game.

C'mon Joey, you're better than that.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Young is known as a running QB, in fact he is one of the leading rushing QBs of all time. He still has the most rushing yards for any QB in the list season and he has the most rushing TDs by a QB in the post season. He also is the only MVP of a SB to be the QB and leading rusher fir the game.

C'mon Joey, you're better than that.

I'm not denying that he was a great runner. One of the best... but he also was a damn good passer too. I'm just not seeing the current crop of running spread option QB's becoming the passers they need to. That's all.
Yes you can win some games with Cam Newton, McNabb had some good seasons, Vick was exciting to watch...but none of them won SB's.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

I'll reiterate what Cubz asked you… because it seems you're the one that doesn't get it.

Do you watch the games? Or just look at stat lines?

Of course I watch every game. How the hell do you think I knew that several of Cutler's INTs came on garbage time hail mary plays? I can't stand people that just look at stats.

If you watch the games, Cutler is playing well. Look at the Dallas game. He had completed 10 of 13 for 100 yards with 1 TD and no INTs, yet the team was down 14-7. How do you score only 7 points to that point when the QB was playing that well? If you were WATCHING the game, you saw stupid things stop drives that had nothing to do with Cutler. Like the drive that they got a first down, but the holding penalty set them back. Or the drive that Marshall dropped the pass. Or the drive that Forte fumbled. That's how you can be down 21-7 despite the QB playing very well. Not much Cutler could do with the offense around him crumbling. But short sighted fans will just blame the QB.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

The average passer rating in the NFL right now is 88.3. Cutler's is 91.7. So if you don't think Cutler's passer rating is above average, then you're REALLY bad at math. The 16th number is deceiving because he's bunched together with several QBs that have played well with ratings in the low-mid 90s. Cutler is only 4.2 points away from the 9th rated passer. 91.7 is a good rating. If you think he has sucked, then you don't know much about football.


I also guess I have to explain this to you again, since you seem to have a hard time understanding. Yes Cutler has piled up extra stats because of garbage time, but he's also piled up extra INTs because of garbage time. 3 or 4 of his INTs have been on meaningless end of game or end of half hail mary plays, and INTs are a killer for passer rating. I don't know if his passer rating has been helped more or hurt more by garbage time play. It seems pretty close. For example in the Detroit game, Cutler had a rating over 100 early in the game when it was close. His rating fell during garbage time with the 2 meaningless INTs, including the one on the last play where he just threw it up to the endzone for the heck of it. Even this last game vs Dallas is an example. Cutler's rating in the 1st half was over 100. It fell to the 80s in the 2nd half during garbage time. If you add them all up, it's possible garbage time actually hurt his passer rating more than it helped it this season. When you're in desperation mode way behind, you take more chances and throw more INTs.

I'm not bad at math, I'm just not including third stringer QB stats in the consideration of "average." I am considering the nominal starters only. That should have been obvious, but I guess I had to actually spell that out for you.

Yes, he has thrown garbage time INTs, and garbage time TDs, in excess of the norm. And he has to, because he has not been good enough in first halves to get it done and leave us in a competitive position in games near the end, so we have to throw.