Our First College Football Draft : CHAT

[Nosferatu]

with Rice and Moss being drafted higher but if they were nobodies in the NFL they wouldn't have been drafted as high

I disagree, both players were first round picks in the NFL draft, you act as if nobody knew who they were prior to their NFL careers. The day of the draft 1998 I was at my cousins house partying and we were listening to the draft and every pick that went by with Moss not being taken we celebrated. I along with way smarter people than me knew Moss was going to be an excellent pro because of the amazing skill he showed in college.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I disagree, both players were first round picks in the NFL draft, you act as if nobody knew who they were prior to their NFL careers. The day of the draft 1998 I was at my cousins house partying and we were listening to the draft and every pick that went by with Moss not being taken we celebrated. I along with way smarter people than me knew Moss was going to be an excellent pro because of the amazing skill he showed in college.

HUH??? they exist?? I thought you were GOD??

 

[Nosferatu]

Why were Rice and Moss drafting in the 1st and 3rd round playing inferior competition

Wow, it feels like you guys are just messing with me, they were drafted early because they were amazing players IN COLLEGE!!! You guys put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much importance on level of competition! GREAT PLAYERS ARE GREAT! The best receivers of all time are Moss and Rice, the best running back of all time in my opinion is Walter Payton, all three of these guys were drafted in the first round, do you think playing at the schools they did in college hurt them? Of course not, the people running the Bears, Niners and I guess Vikings knew these guys were amazing it didn't matter where they went to school, it didn't matter their level of competition!

 

[Nosferatu]

I text did Ducey

 

[Nosferatu]

Ducey said skip him, @Shanemansj13 is OTC

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Wow, it feels like you guys are just messing with me, they were drafted early because they were amazing players IN COLLEGE!!! You guys put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much importance on level of competition! GREAT PLAYERS ARE GREAT! The best receivers of all time are Moss and Rice, the best running back of all time in my opinion is Walter Payton, all three of these guys were drafted in the first round, do you think playing at the schools they did in college hurt them? Of course not, the people running the Bears, Niners and I guess Vikings knew these guys were amazing it didn't matter where they went to school, it didn't matter their level of competition!

nah... you are wrong...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Wow, it feels like you guys are just messing with me, they were drafted early because they were amazing players IN COLLEGE!!! You guys put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much importance on level of competition! GREAT PLAYERS ARE GREAT! The best receivers of all time are Moss and Rice, the best running back of all time in my opinion is Walter Payton, all three of these guys were drafted in the first round, do you think playing at the schools they did in college hurt them? Of course not, the people running the Bears, Niners and I guess Vikings knew these guys were amazing it didn't matter where they went to school, it didn't matter their level of competition!

I'm not saying they weren't great, I guess you didn't read my whole response. But you do realize there were WR's that did more in college WHILE playing better competition. You are right, great is great, but we are talking about college here...only college.

Player A
3 total seasons (2 as a starter) all FBS (Big 12)
3600 yards 40 TD's
5th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 5th overall

Player B
One season unknown stats (played FCS competition)
One season FBS (MAC) 1800 yards 26 TD's
4th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 21st overall

One player had a better college career AND played better competition in college.
Both players were drafted high. One in the top 5.
One player was a great in the NFL and one wasn't.

Yes, Player B was drafted 6 rounds in front of Player A. That makes zero sense. If you don't think the NFL has anything to do with this you are fooling yourself. Both were great college players but one did it while playing better competition, yes it does make a difference when both are comparable.

 

[CitySushi]

I don't know shit about shit when it comes to college football, but I just tried to draft the most accomplished collegiate athletes I could find. I valued production over name in most cases otherwise I have no baseline to support my draft choices. Like Troy Edwards may not get as much love as say Randy Moss or Jerry Rice, but he had two of the top 25 single season receiving yards in college football history and was an all-american.

IMO, if you're going to say a player wasn't as good as another based on the level of competition they faced, we can go back to every single draft we've ever done and re-evaluate the players. Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest Centers of all time in basketball, but played his entire career against guys who were significantly smaller than he was. Most of the great centers of his era were like 6'9"ish. His biggest competition was Bill Russell who by all records was 6'9" 225-230 in his playing days. We don't hold that against him and say he's completely overrated. We value his dominance and what he was able to do against the competition in front of him. You don't think if you took David Robinson and put him in the 60's he'd be considered probably a top 3 center of all time instead of maybe the 3rd best of his era?

If you're starting to compare players to competition they played against, this becomes a real slippery slope IMO.

 

[Mebert]

I'm not saying they weren't great, I guess you didn't read my whole response. But you do realize there were WR's that did more in college WHILE playing better competition. You are right, great is great, but we are talking about college here...only college.

Player A
3 total seasons (2 as a starter) all FBS (Big 12)
3600 yards 40 TD's
5th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 5th overall

Player B
One season unknown stats (played FCS competition)
One season FBS (MAC) 1800 yards 26 TD's
4th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 21st overall

One player had a better college career AND played better competition in college.
Both players were drafted high. One in the top 5.
One player was a great in the NFL and one wasn't.

Yes, Player B was drafted 6 rounds in front of Player A. That makes zero sense. If you don't think the NFL has anything to do with this you are fooling yourself. Both were great college players but one did it while playing better competition, yes it does make a difference when both are comparable.

I was going to come make a case for Moss, but it seems counterproductive to make a case against Blackmon here......

 

[Nosferatu]

If you don't think the NFL has anything to do with this you are fooling yourself.

It doesn't, at least not for me. Also, who said I or anyone else was using just numbers, other things matter not just the numbers, TALENT, team, type of offense ran, qb play. I never draft in any draft based on numbers alone.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't know shit about shit when it comes to college football, but I just tried to draft the most accomplished collegiate athletes I could find. I valued production over name in most cases otherwise I have no baseline to support my draft choices. Like Troy Edwards may not get as much love as say Randy Moss or Jerry Rice, but he had two of the top 25 single season receiving yards in college football history and was an all-american.

IMO, if you're going to say a player wasn't as good as another based on the level of competition they faced, we can go back to every single draft we've ever done and re-evaluate the players. Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest Centers of all time in basketball, but played his entire career against guys who were significantly smaller than he was. Most of the great centers of his era were like 6'9"ish. His biggest competition was Bill Russell who by all records was 6'9" 225-230 in his playing days. We don't hold that against him and say he's completely overrated. We value his dominance and what he was able to do against the competition in front of him. You don't think if you took David Robinson and put him in the 60's he'd be considered probably a top 3 center of all time instead of maybe the 3rd best of his era?

If you're starting to compare players to competition they played against, this becomes a real slippery slope IMO.

Actually the reason why Wilt isn't the #1 center of all-time is based on exactly that. He averaged 50 ppg and 30 rpg vs inferior competition. He should easily be the best center but we compare him to all eras and guys that dominated other, better eras.

But that is actually a different conversation honestly. We are talking about guys that were 2 stars, colleges didn't even recruit them bc of their skill set. Wilt played plenty of great players in the NBA, it was the NBA still. I already said Moss and Rice were still greats but guys that put up the same numbers against better competition >> it's a huge difference. I have watched all levels of college football and if you put a 5 star RB for Bama on the field vs FCS competition he is going to run for 200-250 yards a game. If you put a great Ohio St lineman playing FCS DLineman he is going to pancake him almost every time.

The point of it was Rice or Moss wasn't any better than some of these other guys that played better competition. Rice in the 3rd, not a bad pick I would have done the same probably. Moss in the 1st lol. There were guys taken in 5-8 rounds who were just as great in college, not even counting the competition level. If their names were Joe Smoo in the NFL then would have been also been drafted later, it's my whole point.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I was going to come make a case for Moss, but it seems counterproductive to make a case against Blackmon here......

I will take tips in vcash after the draft if you win

 

[Shanemansj13]

It doesn't, at least not for me. Also, who said I or anyone else was using just numbers, other things matter not just the numbers, TALENT, team, type of offense ran, qb play. I never draft in any draft based on numbers alone.

It's more than numbers but you can't put the eye test out on paper. I watched both Crabtree and Blackmon in college and they were two physical specimens that dominated to the highest level. Same with Larry and CJ. Both played FBS competition. That wasn't even the point of the entire conversation but yeah only way to lay out on paper. I guess you would have to see them play, the reason why I don't do NHL drafts...I don't watch the sport.

 

[Nosferatu]

the reason why I don't do NHL drafts...I don't watch the sport.

Ghey

 

[UK Cowboy]

I'm not saying they weren't great, I guess you didn't read my whole response. But you do realize there were WR's that did more in college WHILE playing better competition. You are right, great is great, but we are talking about college here...only college.

Player A
3 total seasons (2 as a starter) all FBS (Big 12)
3600 yards 40 TD's
5th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 5th overall

Player B
One season unknown stats (played FCS competition)
One season FBS (MAC) 1800 yards 26 TD's
4th in Heisman (best finish)
Drafted 21st overall

One player had a better college career AND played better competition in college.
Both players were drafted high. One in the top 5.
One player was a great in the NFL and one wasn't.

Yes, Player B was drafted 6 rounds in front of Player A. That makes zero sense. If you don't think the NFL has anything to do with this you are fooling yourself. Both were great college players but one did it while playing better competition, yes it does make a difference when both are comparable.

I disagree with you there. You can't just use college stats, especially from different eras. Andre Ware was one of the greatest statistical QBs of all time, but I think we can agree that Payton Manning would have put up the same stats in the run and shoot. Also, a guy like Baker Mayfield had better stats than say Steve McNair but that was more about rule changes by era and system played. Kind of the same thing in the NFL. Stats (and Milk) will tell you that Matt Stafford is better than Troy Aikman was, but that's a joke

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I disagree with you there. You can't just use college stats, especially from different eras. Andre Ware was one of the greatest statistical QBs of all time, but I think we can agree that Payton Manning would have put up the same stats in the run and shoot. Also, a guy like Baker Mayfield had better stats than say Steve McNair but that was more about rule changes by era and system played. Kind of the same thing in the NFL. Stats (and Milk) will tell you that Matt Stafford is better than Troy Aikman was, but that's a joke

nah... I am not a Stafford guy.... Never was... never will be... there are more stats than just Passing yards and TDs

 

[UK Cowboy]

A guy I thought was great but would never win on this format was Jamelle Holieway. Passing stats were crap, but unstoppable triple option WB

 

[Ritzarmy]

Who is OTC? Someone text that person.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I disagree with you there. You can't just use college stats, especially from different eras. Andre Ware was one of the greatest statistical QBs of all time, but I think we can agree that Payton Manning would have put up the same stats in the run and shoot. Also, a guy like Baker Mayfield had better stats than say Steve McNair but that was more about rule changes by era and system played. Kind of the same thing in the NFL. Stats (and Milk) will tell you that Matt Stafford is better than Troy Aikman was, but that's a joke

Ohh I agree you can't just use stats but nobody saw Rice played at MSV St. I saw Crab and Blackmon play in the Big 12 along with Fitz and CJ play, the 4 best WR's I have seen using just the eye test....no stats needed.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I disagree with you there. You can't just use college stats, especially from different eras. Andre Ware was one of the greatest statistical QBs of all time, but I think we can agree that Payton Manning would have put up the same stats in the run and shoot. Also, a guy like Baker Mayfield had better stats than say Steve McNair but that was more about rule changes by era and system played. Kind of the same thing in the NFL. Stats (and Milk) will tell you that Matt Stafford is better than Troy Aikman was, but that's a joke

Stafford was a very good college QB. Peyton was a damn good QB in college, but honestly wasn't a fan. I would take a lot of college QB's over him. Harder to compare guys that played in different system, like triple-option, run and shoot, etc. bc it could be due to plugging and playing. I guess since I watch more college football than any sport it's all about seeing the player. If the player was before my time, you have to use stats to a certain extent.