OT: Winter Is Coming | Game of Thrones Discussion Thread

[BGDave]

The whole scene had a WWII bombed out kinda feel to it and Cersei was Hitler trapped, dying, and defeated in her bunker.

I made a similar comment to the better half while watching. During WWII, after the Luftwaffe were basically neutralized, the Allies had free reign to do whatever they wanted in the air. That included bombing the living hell out of any German target, particularly if it had military value. And they did. Little to no regard for civilian casualties. Did Dany go too far? Arguably yes, but there is an argument that she did not go all that far overboard.

Also, I doubt I was the only one yelling at Dany to NOT listen to the bells. I thought it quite possible that if Dany stood down when the bells started ringing, that Cersei would have a counterattack trick up her sleeve. So tactically, Dany's not taking her foot off the gas was somewhat warranted. It would have been a total Jon move to stop fighting as soon as the bells rung, but she made sure of victory.

 

[BGDave]

The whole scene had a WWII bombed out kinda feel to it and Cersei was Hitler trapped, dying, and defeated in her bunker.

Are you suggesting that Jamie and Cersei, despite appearances, made their way out, took Davos' boat and sailed off to Argentina, errrr, Pentos to start a new life??

DAMMIT I wont believe they are dead until I see their cold, lifeless bodies!!

(preferably with Jamie's one hand over Cersei's throat, cuz, prophecies)

 

[mattola]

 

[mattola]

 

[Comeds]

I was moved to write a poem, I sent it to Us Weekly:

Queen riding dragon
We surrender chimed the bells
Ignored burn burn burn

Also anybody remember Real Genius? Wouldn't it have been cool if one of the buildings in King's Landing would have been full of unpopped popcorn?

 

[elocomotive]

I made a similar comment to the better half while watching. During WWII, after the Luftwaffe were basically neutralized, the Allies had free reign to do whatever they wanted in the air. That included bombing the living hell out of any German target, particularly if it had military value. And they did. Little to no regard for civilian casualties. Did Dany go too far? Arguably yes, but there is an argument that she did not go all that far overboard.

Also, I doubt I was the only one yelling at Dany to NOT listen to the bells. I thought it quite possible that if Dany stood down when the bells started ringing, that Cersei would have a counterattack trick up her sleeve. So tactically, Dany's not taking her foot off the gas was somewhat warranted. It would have been a total Jon move to stop fighting as soon as the bells rung, but she made sure of victory.

Yeah, good points. She did ultimately give Cersei multiple chances to stand down and come to a peaceful resolve. Those were met with Cersei (1) not following her word and reinforcing her position instead of aiding with the fight for the living and (2) beheading a trusted aid directly in front of Dany.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I didn't think that was the case...
-Tyrion tried to do the right thing and it didn't work out
-Dany lost her shit because Jon wouldn't give here that good nephew D, something that has been building ever since she couldn't sit at the cool kid's table in Winterfell. She feels out of place, her advisors are conspiring against her and talking behind her back, she has lost Jorah and Missande (2 of 3 people that she put total trust in) [cue music: "You Had a Bad Day"], and her love rejected her. I think if anything her character development was completed, not thrown out.
-Jamie went back to Cersei because he missed that good V ("Maybe it just is all cocks in the end." - Jamie Lannister). He felt honor bound to defend the living, but with that done, did we really think he'd get away from his tragic flaw. He couldn't. I don't think that's throwing his character out the window, I just think that we've seen all sides of him, the good and the bad. That's very human to me. I like it.
-Jon Snow is conflicted and follows the Stark pattern of being a man of honor in a dishonorable place. His decision is coming. Seeing his uncertainty both over Dany and in the battle I thought was very human as well.
-We saw some of Arya's humanity return in deciding there maybe were things worth living for after seemingly being on a collision course with death. I loved the moment she called him "Sandor." I didn't think we needed 5 minutes of here dodging flames, but oh well.

I agree the Jamie ending was a little dissatisfying and Euron just popping up in the middle of it was kinda lame. But I also liked that it's how a lot of ruthless dicatators go down - not in some dramatic satisfying moment, but just in the throws of battle. The whole scene had a WWII bombed out kinda feel to it and Cersei was Hitler trapped, dying, and defeated in her bunker.

I listened to Barstool's podcast and they mentioned - hey maybe it wasn't amazing, but every way you try to go with it people would find some fault. I give the show a lot of credit because even during a lopsided victory, I still thought something might happen to Jon or Dany during the battle.

On that note, it should be stated that as military strategists these people are all retarded. You don't put your best soldiers/leaders (Jon, Greyworm) at the front of a charge. You don't place your troops OUTSIDE the castle walls. (Winterfell army, golden company).

That's a lot of random thoughts, but I give the episode an A- overall. Ending a beloved series is always a difficult task. I don't think this will be among the best (Six Feet Under, The Wire), but I think it will be much better than some of the worst (Sopranos).

Oz was also an absolute dog shit ending

We are pretty much getting the ending we expected. With the condensed time frame the writing won't be up to par to seasons past.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

She was gonna burn one of those slave cities before too but Jorah and her ex convinced her not to.

She's constantly said in pump up speeches to her armies that cities will burn for her.

She even all but told Jon Snow that she was gonna burn the place to the ground.

So she did what she does. Tyrion/Varys/literally everybody else in her circle should've had ample evidence by now how she would operate in urban warfare.

 

[BGDave]

Oz was also an absolute dog shit ending

We are pretty much getting the ending we expected. With the condensed time frame the writing won't be up to par to seasons past.

And that is what frustrates the H_LL out of me.

6 episodes was a call made by HBO and the producers. They chose to condense the time frame, and arguably it would have made financial sense to run 10 and get another month of subscriptions. HBO is facing the largest cancellation rate in the history of pay TV.

Historically, this season would have resulted in GoT collecting every bit of hardware (Emmys, etc) known to mankind. See LOTR. Now, other than Tyrion and the special effects guys, GoT isnt going to win squat.

 

[BGDave]

I was moved to write a poem, I sent it to Us Weekly:

Queen riding dragon
We surrender chimed the bells
Ignored burn burn burn

Also anybody remember Real Genius? Wouldn't it have been cool if one of the buildings in King's Landing would have been full of unpopped popcorn?

Specifically, haiku

 

[elocomotive]

Oz was also an absolute dog shit ending

We are pretty much getting the ending we expected. With the condensed time frame the writing won't be up to par to seasons past.

I think part of this is the best dialogue is the rising and falling action. That's where character development happens. Final episodes are usually plot driven. They usually demand an event the ends or changes a character, but it's the progress towards that end that is the most interesting.

That said, I think there were some really outstanding moments in the show last night being overlooked:

• Tyrion's final scene with Jamie was a home run. Great dialogue and acting. I definitely shed a tear when Tyrion said "You were the only one who didn't treat me like a monster. ...You were all I had."
• The Hound realizing he really can't defeat his brother (not straight up) and just laughing while being choked.
• The bells sounding and everyone waiting to see what Jon, Dany, and Greyworm did next. The tension and uncertainty in that moment as Tyrion looked on hopelessly was tremendous.

 

[elocomotive]

6 episodes was a call made by HBO and the producers. They chose to condense the time frame, and arguably it would have made financial sense to run 10 and get another month of subscriptions. HBO is facing the largest cancellation rate in the history of pay TV.

Yeah, but doesn't the length of the episodes make it more like 8 episodes in total.

Though I agree. Some of these episodes would have had briliant cliffhangers had they just gone the traditional 50-55 minutes or so that could have left fans being like "no!!!!" and on the edge of their seat.

 

[BGDave]

So she did what she does. Tyrion/Varys/literally everybody else in her circle should've had ample evidence by now how she would operate in urban warfare.

Can't speak for others but for me, I would say "disappointed" with Dany, not surprised or shocked. I guess I figured it was in her to do it, just hoped she would not. And that hope was misplaced.

Often times these stories reflect the writers/producers view on current events. It is well documented that Lord of the Rings was based on Nazi Germany and Hitler taking over Europe. Is it possible that the Dany turn mirrors someone's view of a new leader offering hope, but turns out they are just the same as the ones before?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Is it possible that the Dany turn mirrors someone's view of a new leader offering hope, but turns out they are just the same as the ones before?

So the writers were Trudeau voters?

 

[BGDave]

Though I agree. Some of these episodes would have had briliant cliffhangers had they just gone the traditional 50-55 minutes or so that could have left fans being like "no!!!!" and on the edge of their seat.

Agreed. What if they ended this epsiode at the point where Dany is on her dragon, the bells are ringing, and she and Cersei are having a (somewhat unlikely given the distance) staredown? Whatchagonna do Dany? (fade to black)

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think part of this is the best dialogue is the rising and falling action. That's where character development happens. Final episodes are usually plot driven. They usually demand an event the ends or changes a character, but it's the progress towards that end that is the most interesting.

That said, I think there were some really outstanding moments in the show last night being overlooked:

• Tyrion's final scene with Jamie was a home run. Great dialogue and acting. I definitely shed a tear when Tyrion said "You were the only one who didn't treat me like a monster. ...You were all I had."
• The Hound realizing he really can't defeat his brother (not straight up) and just laughing while being choked.
• The bells sounding and everyone waiting to see what Jon, Dany, and Greyworm did next. The tension and uncertainty in that moment as Tyrion looked on hopelessly was tremendous.

I said yesterday (and I'm sure many disagree) but we are in a golden age for TV quality

The influx of Netflix etc is allowing show makers the freedom to make the shows they want to make.

It leads us down a path of sometimes being over critical in the face of otherwise solid work (even though GOT could've definitely wrapped up better).

I could be proven totally wrong next week but I don't see this ending so badly as to go on the mantle of a Dexter so I think once we can look back it will be viewed very positively as a show and easily one of the best ever.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Just the fact seasons are usually shorter and thus more time and money is spent individually leads to better programming

I actually struggled through the twenty some episodes of the first Quantico and that story would've been ten times better condensed down

 

[elocomotive]

So predictions on how it ends?


My theory since season 2 or 3 has been that Bran's warging ability with Dany's dragons was going to be key. I think that Jon and Tyrion both clearly have lament and concerns about how things went. I think it's possible that Dany will go to execute one or both of them. In that moment, Bran will warg into the dragon and take out Dany. And then everyone is like "oh no, the queen is dead... and nobody with royal blood is here." Samwise stumbles into the room a la Kramer (laugh track) and says "that's not true, there is another." The crowd "well who could he be talking about?!?"

Jon Snow:

 

[elocomotive]

Just the fact seasons are usually shorter and thus more time and money is spent individually leads to better programming

I actually struggled through the twenty some episodes of the first Quantico and that story would've been ten times better condensed down

Yeah, the Walking Dead could learn that lesson. A girl walks off into the woods and that's a season on that show.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Update on my fan fiction, two rival banks to the Iron Bank of Braavos are in the midst of a merger. The words just keep coming to me, there may be enough for an entire book with this one storyline alone (Game of Loans).