OT Stars Hockey

[terpsfball09]

What do you guys think of trading erik cole and perhaps a lesser prospect to toronto for Nazem Kadri? Toronto has the same mindstate on kadri as boston did with seguin. He's just a little too showy and immature right now, and they want a winger that can score. Erik Cole brings that, plus he's a fantastic teammate. Kadri has the potential to be an all star, and he's only 23. This would be pretty interesting and I've wondered if we've looked into it.

Apparently toronto has shopped him around a lot, and some rumors say they were looking for a "goal scoring winger" and were talking to winnipeg about dustin byyfuglien. Well... Cole has more goals then him, even though he's older. Its definitely a reasonable trade, and would add a huge piece to our young talent. Kadri has been toronto's first line center almost all season. That would be so huge. We wouldn't have to rely solely on the draft to get our centers, and we can still trade fiddler or gonchar to get some picks/prospects. I think we should consider ourselves sellers this year, but I think Kadri is a huge possibility. That would be so awesome. Kadri is pretty fun to watch

 

[WilltheThrill]

What do you guys think of trading erik cole and perhaps a lesser prospect to toronto for Nazem Kadri? Toronto has the same mindstate on kadri as boston did with seguin. He's just a little too showy and immature right now, and they want a winger that can score. Erik Cole brings that, plus he's a fantastic teammate. Kadri has the potential to be an all star, and he's only 23. This would be pretty interesting and I've wondered if we've looked into it.

Apparently toronto has shopped him around a lot, and some rumors say they were looking for a "goal scoring winger" and were talking to winnipeg about dustin byyfuglien. Well... Cole has more goals then him, even though he's older. Its definitely a reasonable trade, and would add a huge piece to our young talent. Kadri has been toronto's first line center almost all season. That would be so huge. We wouldn't have to rely solely on the draft to get our centers, and we can still trade fiddler or gonchar to get some picks/prospects. I think we should consider ourselves sellers this year, but I think Kadri is a huge possibility. That would be so awesome. Kadri is pretty fun to watch

There is no way Toronto would part with Kadri for Erik Cole. No way, no how. Even if they are souring on him like Boston did with Seguin, they're not parting with him unless they get a star player or a player with considerable upside in return. Erik Cole is neither. It's a huge stretch to refer to him as a goal-scoring winger. He's a decent player but his best days are behind him. His trade value is ok at best. Dustin Byfuglien has a ton more trade value than Cole because of his age, upside, and ability to play both defense and offense.

The Stars had to part with a highly-coveted player in Loui Eriksson to get Seguin. Cole is a 2nd or 3rd liner on almost every team. That's not even a conversation starter for a talent like Kadri, even an immature one. The Stars would probably have to include Oleksiak along with Cole to even get Toronto to consider it.

If the Stars are going to trade, I'd rather them put together a package to get Byfuglien. The cost would be a 1st rounder, a current roster player (someone like Cole), and a decent prospect (Faksa, Ritchie, Oleksiak, etc).

 

[terpsfball09]

So Dustin Byfuglien is a star player? Because that is who toronto is trying to get for him. Their asking price isn't very high right now. I don't want byfuglien, he's 28, and I just think that, even if he isn't as good RIGHT NOW, kadri fits into the mold and core of what we're trying to do more than him. Kadri would immediately go to the second line and flourish given a year or two. I don't value Byfuglien and Cole the same, but I will say that Cole is a better goal scorer, and he's a better clubhouse presence. Byfulien's work ethic has come into question as well, as he's entered training camp multiple times overweight. I'm saying we ship Cole and a prospect for Kadri and I think they do it. Not one of our best prospects, but a guy that toronto can at least value more than we do because our farm is already so stocked.

 

[terpsfball09]

I mean, Byfuglien is a top 2 player on winnipeg, and he still only has 10 more points than erik cole. He's in a position where he should be getting a point a game, and he's not. I think Cole is more of what Toronto is looking for at the moment. It's not like their talent levels are overwhelmingly different at the moment. I mean, just a year ago we valued cole as much as michael ryder, and look at him right now

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Toronto would not give up Kadri for Cole. Yes Kadri may not have turned out what they've hoped so far but his upside is still high. As Will said Cole's best days are behind him. A team may do that if they're literally an Erik Cole away from getting over the top but if Toronto ever parted with Kadri they'd have to get blue chip folks back.

 

[WilltheThrill]

I mean, Byfuglien is a top 2 player on winnipeg, and he still only has 10 more points than erik cole. He's in a position where he should be getting a point a game, and he's not. I think Cole is more of what Toronto is looking for at the moment. It's not like their talent levels are overwhelmingly different at the moment. I mean, just a year ago we valued cole as much as michael ryder, and look at him right now

A lot is wrong with this statement. A lot.

First of all, Dustin Byfuglien is primarily a defenseman. Only occasionally does he move up to play on the wing. He's logged the overwhelming majority of his minutes this season on defense. So to expect him to drastically outscore a top 6 forward is ridiculous. The fact that he's outscored Erik Cole at all as a defenseman should tell you how much more valuable he is than Cole. Nicklas Lidstrom was a scoring machine from the blue line and he never finished in the top 10 overall scoring list at the end of each season.

Secondly, to suggest Byfuglien should be scoring a point per game is absurd. Defensemen don't average a point per game. They very, very rarely do. In the last full 82-game season in 2011-12, Erik Karlsson led all defensemen with 78 points in 82 games. The best scoring defenseman in the entire league didn't average a point per game, and you think Byfuglien should be doing that in Winnipeg of all places? No. He's a 20-goal scoring defenseman. He's legit.

Lastly, the Stars never valued Erik Cole as much as Michael Ryder. That is absolutely false. The Stars traded Ryder because he was on the last year of his contract and was due for a nice raise as a free agent. The Stars knew they couldn't re-sign him (Nieuwendyk even admitted this) and so they got whatever they could for him. Not many teams were willing to trade for Ryder as a rental, but the Habs were willing to dump Cole on us. It was not an even swap in terms of talent. At all.

Toronto is not going to trade a young player with elite skill, no matter how much they've soured on him, for an overpaid old winger who has maybe 2 seasons left in the tank and some mediocre prospect.

To put it in baseball terms- no way would the Rangers trade Elvis Andrus (assuming they had soured on his immaturity) for Paul Konerko and some mediocre AA relief pitcher.

I like your idea of trying to pry Kadri from the Leafs. But I've been closely following hockey for about 25 years now and I'm just being realistic when I tell you that you are grossly overrating Erik Cole and how much the Leafs would value him in a deal. At BEST, you're looking at a future 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Also noteworthy is that the upcoming 2014 Draft is nowhere close to the 2013 Draft in terms of talent. 2013 was just ridiculously deep and rich with elite-level prospects. 2014 is seen as a definite down year. There isn't even a consensus #1... no slam dunk picks among the entire prospect pool. The draft is deepest at Wing if you had to pick a strong position. There are 3 solid Centers who are predicted to go in the top 10, but no others really that special. There is 1 stud defenseman (who many think might go #1 overall) and then a gigantic drop off to the 2nd best defenseman (late 1st or 2nd round).

So what this means for the Stars is that unless they somehow secure a top 5 pick, they're not likely to greatly improve at Center or Defense this go-round through the draft. There is a kid named Leon Draisaitl who is one of those top 3 Centers I mentioned. He'd be a great future 2nd line Center. But aside from picking him, I wouldn't mind seeing the Stars use their 1st round pick to lure away a current NHLer (like a Kadri, Yakupov, Byfuglien, etc) who still has elite skill but might have fallen out of favor with his current team.

 

[WilltheThrill]

And speak of the devil... here's a nice article just posted on ESPN about Dustin Byfuglien and his strong trade value: The appeal in trading for Dustin Byfuglien - NHL - ESPN

He'd be a great semi-buy low candidate. Wouldn't be able to get him for nothing, but certainly at a reduced price from just a year ago.

 

[terpsfball09]

A lot is wrong with this statement. A lot.

First of all, Dustin Byfuglien is primarily a defenseman. Only occasionally does he move up to play on the wing. He's logged the overwhelming majority of his minutes this season on defense. So to expect him to drastically outscore a top 6 forward is ridiculous. The fact that he's outscored Erik Cole at all as a defenseman should tell you how much more valuable he is than Cole. Nicklas Lidstrom was a scoring machine from the blue line and he never finished in the top 10 overall scoring list at the end of each season.

Secondly, to suggest Byfuglien should be scoring a point per game is absurd. Defensemen don't average a point per game. They very, very rarely do. In the last full 82-game season in 2011-12, Erik Karlsson led all defensemen with 78 points in 82 games. The best scoring defenseman in the entire league didn't average a point per game, and you think Byfuglien should be doing that in Winnipeg of all places? No. He's a 20-goal scoring defenseman. He's legit.

Lastly, the Stars never valued Erik Cole as much as Michael Ryder. That is absolutely false. The Stars traded Ryder because he was on the last year of his contract and was due for a nice raise as a free agent. The Stars knew they couldn't re-sign him (Nieuwendyk even admitted this) and so they got whatever they could for him. Not many teams were willing to trade for Ryder as a rental, but the Habs were willing to dump Cole on us. It was not an even swap in terms of talent. At all.

Toronto is not going to trade a young player with elite skill, no matter how much they've soured on him, for an overpaid old winger who has maybe 2 seasons left in the tank and some mediocre prospect.

To put it in baseball terms- no way would the Rangers trade Elvis Andrus (assuming they had soured on his immaturity) for Paul Konerko and some mediocre AA relief pitcher.

I like your idea of trying to pry Kadri from the Leafs. But I've been closely following hockey for about 25 years now and I'm just being realistic when I tell you that you are grossly overrating Erik Cole and how much the Leafs would value him in a deal. At BEST, you're looking at a future 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.

I don't think I'm overvaluing cole at all. I mean, I just read what the scouts say. I didn't know byfulien was a defensemen. it strikes me as odd because the leafs are looking for a winger yet they wanna trade kadri for byfuglien? So I assumed he was a winger. But Cole is the type of player the wings are looking for right now. Maybe not straight up for kadri, but I'm sure they value him and he'd be on their second line. I watched 24/7, which starred the maple leafs, and even their GM on the show said that he was fielding all offers right now and that kadri has a little maturing to do. I think if we traded Cole and a prospect we could get him. but even if we couldnt, its worth a shot because he fits the mold of exactly what we're trying to do. If our centers were Seguin Kadri and Eakin that's awesome

 

[WilltheThrill]

I don't think I'm overvaluing cole at all. I mean, I just read what the scouts say. I didn't know byfulien was a defensemen. it strikes me as odd because the leafs are looking for a winger yet they wanna trade kadri for byfuglien? So I assumed he was a winger. But Cole is the type of player the wings are looking for right now. Maybe not straight up for kadri, but I'm sure they value him and he'd be on their second line. I watched 24/7, which starred the maple leafs, and even their GM on the show said that he was fielding all offers right now and that kadri has a little maturing to do. I think if we traded Cole and a prospect we could get him. but even if we couldnt, its worth a shot because he fits the mold of exactly what we're trying to do. If our centers were Seguin Kadri and Eakin that's awesome

Yeah, Byfuglien is primarily a defenseman. But he's very unique in that he has the ability to play both D and Wing. Not too many guys like that (Brent Burns of San Jose is another).

And again, I certainly don't mean to bad-mouth your idea of pursuing a Kadri trade. It's a very good idea. I just think Cole would be more of a throw-in as opposed to the main piece going back. Something like a 1st round pick, Patrick Nemeth, and Erik Cole might get the deal done. Might have to upgrade to Oleksiak over Nemeth.

I'd also consider a Daley or Goligoski/1st round pick/Chiasson or Ritchie package for Nail Yakupov. He's another young elite skill player who is in the doghouse.

 

[terpsfball09]

a Goligoski + ritchie package sounds nice. Don't really care for either. I like Yakupov too, and I hope these are options that we are exploring. The league is full of young centers who are blocked off right now or are being hindered from reaching their full potential. Kadri is a good example of this guy, but there are several others. This season that should be our plan. Gear up for a run next season or the season after. We don't have the special teams or the D to win in the playoffs right now, so hopefuly we dont try. It will be interesting to see what nill does in his first deadline as a gm

 

[RevSader]

That last goal by Rich was sweet. Horcoff with the steal at center ice to find the streaking Peverley for a nice wrister.

 

[Justinkm83]

Finally witness a damn win in person this season. Thorough ass whipping. Team played great and they've probably got some confidence and momentum back. Not sure what will happen tomorrow as the Penguins are in town and there will be lots of Pens fans in the arena. Hopefully it will be competitive and the team can get a point out of it.

Looks though we'll get more than 1. When this Stars teams shows up they can skate with anyone. These last 8 periods get me even more excited for the future.

 

[RevSader]

Looks though we'll get more than 1. When this Stars teams shows up they can skate with anyone. These last 8 periods get me even more excited for the future.

Crazy what Kari can do when he's not having to see 40 shots a night right?

 

[Justinkm83]

Crazy what Kari can do when he's not having to see 40 shots a night right?

Yes sir.
Stars shots allowed last 4 games before tonight:
MIN 19
NSH 23
MIN 18
TOR 25

 

[Justinkm83]

Byfuglien w/ a game winner tonight (12).

 

[RevSader]

Crosby is a bitch....that's not a penalty on any other player.

 

[RevSader]

Wow...hell of a game and stretch.

 

[The Commish]

Can't say I expected that...

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Another utter ass kicking. Best and most dominating win of the season hands down.