OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[elocomotive]

I can get on board with that. I also think, like car inspections, you should have to renew a gun license every few years, get a psych exam, etc. Would it be a slight inconvenience to gun owners? Sure, but I think it would help. Just because you were sane when you got the gun doesn't mean you remain that way.

Yeah. I agree, but that would definitely be the most difficult part to both administer and the most controversial. A psych eval is definitely more invasive than something like a vision test.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

and excuse my ignorance but "the right to bear arms" ... what is the current limitation on that? is it a state to state thing? Can i have a nuke in a silo under my garage?

 

[Nasty_Magician]

This guy was not a "Goth" anyway. He was dressed in black because the tactical armor he was wearing was black.



Yeah, pretty much.



2 things:
1) If it is known that there is an armed guard there, the shooter will just bring more firepower. No one goes to rob a bank with box knife.2) An armed guard wouldn't have done anything in this situation. The school had a steel door and single entry point system with double pane glass. He blasted through that with his rifle, ambush style. An armed guard there would have just made the body count 28 instead of 27.



Texas should just shut up when the grown ups are talking.



B-B-B-But 250 year old piece of paper!



No one snaps. It's either in the realm of possibility or it isn't. Factors add up to push a person beyond their personal point of no return. But no one has ever "snapped".

Oh, and this:
Bushmaster's Shockingly Awful "Man Card" Campaign

Bushmaster: the perfect weapon against Elementary School kids.

Does the knowledge of there being an armed guard act as a deterent though? Are you less likely to rob someone's home if you knew they were armed? Again, I'm not saying it's a fool proof system. I just think it could be one of many things that can be done to try and prevent these situations, or at least minimize the damage once it has started.

 

[forty_three]

i dont want to get into semantics ... Im just thinking back to when i was in highschool and we had our Lit 12 teacher lock us out of our morning class because she was having emotional and or mental issues ... principal had to enter with a key

this was before the days of lockdowns and emergency procedures to deal with this type of situation

and thinking back Im glad she didnt have access to a gun that day

I get it. But there's no way that was the first indicator that she was capable of something like that. Now whether anyone saw or cared before that point... that's the problem.

If we solved that, Gun ownership and pretty much all violence would be almost a moot point. Get the people help. That's all I am saying.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

and excuse my ignorance but "the right to bear arms" ... what is the current limitation on that? is it a state to state thing? Can i have a nuke in a silo under my garage?

Gun regulations are done at a state level. For example, in New Jersey they are very strict. You can't carry a pistol. You can own one, and transport it in your trunk to and from the shooting range. That's it.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I get it. But there's no way that was the first indicator that she was capable of something like that. Now whether anyone saw or cared before that point... that's the problem.

If we solved that, Gun ownership and pretty much all violence would be almost a moot point. Get the people help. That's all I am saying.

all truth

 

[forty_three]

Does the knowledge of there being an armed guard act as a deterent though? Are you less likely to rob someone's home if you knew they were armed? Again, I'm not saying it's a fool proof system. I just think it could be one of many things that can be done to try and prevent these situations, or at least minimize the damage once it has started.

I helped on a case where three guys planned to stick up a few armored cars. To prepare they had assembled grenades, armor piercing bullets, body armor and hollowpoints. Thousands of rounds.

I'd say they were not deterred.




And yes, they were stopped before it happened. They are never getting out of prison.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I helped on a case where three guys planned to stick up a few armored cars. To prepare they had assembled grenades, armor piercing bullets, body armor and hollowpoints. Thousands of rounds.

I'd say they were not deterred.




And yes, they were stopped before it happened. They are never getting out of prison.

Unbelievably different scenarios we're talking about here, but I can see where you're argument is.

 

[forty_three]

and excuse my ignorance but "the right to bear arms" ... what is the current limitation on that? is it a state to state thing? Can i have a nuke in a silo under my garage?

Well, the right to bear arms is written so we can have a well regulated militia.

As for what exactly that means about tactical nukes?

:popsnoidea:




Wait, I've got it! Every registered gun owner must do three tours in Afghanistan. We won't have to outfit them, they already have the guns!

 

[forty_three]

Unbelievably different scenarios we're talking about here, but I can see where you're argument is.

I think once someone makes the decision, any deterrent is irrelevant. Their mind is made up and they are pretty sure they are going to die.

The only way to make any headway is to stop it before it gets to attack planning stage. That's something I feel like we can apply to any situation.

 

[elocomotive]

the one thing is...with cars you are only required to do these things if/because they are on public roads

Not true. Just by owning a car you have to have go through inspection and registration, whether you drive it or not. You have to apply for licensing before you are even allowed behind the wheel of an automobile.

 

[whyoh]

I'd advocate that is a huge mistake. It's one thing to have one or two armed professionals trained in security monitoring a school as their full-time job. Having 10 or 20 armed teachers who are not solely focused on that task would be a mistake.

i am talking about people that are liscesed and allowed to carry that same firearm everywhere else

Gun owners are 4.5 times more likely to be the victim of a gun homicide than non-gun owners.

that is a BS stat that has been disproved many times in the past....in fact, of the 30,000 annual gun related deaths 18,000 are suicide while there are literally millions of instances of people using guns to successfully defend themselves

You'd see children and school workers inadvertently shot, accidents, etc. that would far outweigh the benefits of MAYBE stopping or minimizing very rare spree killers.

do you know the ratio of accidents to legal CCW holders in the us?

 

[whyoh]

Not true. Just by owning a car you have to have go through inspection and registration, whether you drive it or not. You have to apply for licensing before you are even allowed behind the wheel of an automobile.

not true....if a rancher buys a truck and takes it home he can drive it all over his property all he wants with no regristration

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Well, the right to bear arms is written so we can have a well regulated militia.

As for what exactly that means about tactical nukes?

:popsnoidea:




Wait, I've got it! Every registered gun owner must do three tours in Afghanistan. We won't have to outfit them, they already have the guns!

and the weapons of choice back then were muskets correct?

 

[forty_three]

and the weapons of choice back then were muskets correct?

Three shots per minute.

 

[elocomotive]

and excuse my ignorance but "the right to bear arms" ... what is the current limitation on that? is it a state to state thing? Can i have a nuke in a silo under my garage?

There are federal laws restricting certain gun usage, but most gun laws on the sale, prohibition of weapons, conceal/carry laws, etc. are at the state level.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I have seen this in a couple of articles on CNN and FOX...

Catherine Urso, who attended a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.

"He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths," referring to a style of dress noted for a heavily black wardrobe.

That's where I got the info from.

 

[whyoh]

and the weapons of choice back then were muskets correct?

then the press should only be allowed to print monthly periodicals on a press because that's all we had when the first amendment was written

 

[elocomotive]

not true....if a rancher buys a truck and takes it home he can drive it all over his property all he wants with no regristration

No, you have to register ANY vehicle. He may get away with it if he only uses it on his property. But ALL vehicles have to be titled, registered, and tagged (exceptions for things like motorbikes, golf carts, tractors, etc.),

 

[forty_three]

then the press should only be allowed to print monthly periodicals on a press because that's all we had when the first amendment was written