OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[puckhead]

Stop school shootings by letting teachers fire back, say Texas officials

Texas

 

[elocomotive]

I see a school district outside Seattle is going to start using armed guards

things need to change in a hurry

Is that really the solution though? I guess it does help with the problem, although things like this are still extremely rare. Something like 100K schools across the country. Couldn't a security guard snap too? Although I guess you can do screenings and pysch evaluations on them. But they have armed guards at malls and that hasn't seemed to stop the problem there, but I guess there MUCH wider public access and entry points at a mall.

Idk, just thinking out loud.

 

[elocomotive]

obviously?


i'd be against arming teachers.....but if a teacher has a CCW and chooses to utilize that permission in the classroom...i wouldn't argue with that

I don't know the laws from state-to-state, but I don't think you can use a CCW in most schools. They are often gun-free zones.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I dont like the idea of sending my kid to a school that he has to walk past an armed guard to get into ...

"well we have to make the kids safe dont we???"

yah ... make it harder to get access to guns and minimize the risk

 

[SLY]

No idea how much you would pay that person, but you figure it would have to fit into a school budget, and since he's essentially a security guard you can't pay them a fortune.

For that amount, you'll just get a person who doesn't care and/or falls asleep on the job. That will be a FT job.

If anything they should have all the doors to schools not accessible from outside. They only open from inside. They can be glass, so in case of emergency someone can break in. Then have an armed officer at the front door at all times checking everyone that enters and leaves.

A burden? Yes. A permanent solution to these problems? No. Will it help big time? Most likely.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Is that really the solution though? I guess it does help with the problem, although things like this are still extremely rare. Something like 100K schools across the country. Couldn't a security guard snap too? Although I guess you can do screenings and pysch evaluations on them. But they have armed guards at malls and that hasn't seemed to stop the problem there, but I guess there MUCH wider public access and entry points at a mall.

Idk, just thinking out loud.

yup and a teacher could snap too (who hasnt seen that? sans firearm of course )

 

[elocomotive]

I guess I hate to see armed guards in schools, as you noted above.

 

[whyoh]

I don't know the laws from state-to-state, but I don't think you can use a CCW in most schools. They are often gun-free zones.

and i am advocating for a change in that policy


perhaps only allow teachers with a CCW to carry....maybe even require those teachers to seek further training and bi annual qualifications

 

[Nasty_Magician]

For that amount, you'll just get a person who doesn't care and/or falls asleep on the job. That will be a FT job.

If anything they should have all the doors to schools not accessible from outside. They only open from inside. They can be glass, so in case of emergency someone can break in. Then have an armed officer at the front door at all times checking everyone that enters and leaves.

A burden? Yes. A permanent solution to these problems? No. Will it help big time? Most likely.

Ok, whatever amount you see fit, we could pay somebody.

As for sending kids to a school with an armed guard, it doesn't have to be somebody covered head to toe in body armor carrying a high powered assault rifle.

As for who that person is, could be a retired cop in town, somebody looking for some additional pay to go along with their pension.

Of course this won't solve the whole issue. There's no single solution to this problem. Our whole mindset as a society has to change. We've set the bar way too low in too many aspects of life. What is considered entertainment, what passes as journalism, what is considered acceptable behavior.

 

[elocomotive]

I keep coming back to the idea that guns need to be regulated in a similar manner to cars. Cars are deadly machines, though they serve a much more practical purpose than a gun does. And we regulate them in many aspects that could be applied to guns...

Cars have safety inspections - have random inspections of gun owners to make sure they are safely storing their firearms
Cars have testing and licensing - test owners to make sure they can properly handle a firearm
Cars have age restrictions - don't allow children to handle and use firearms
Certain cars are not allowed on roadways - certain guns should not be allowed for private ownership

Regulations in this area are VERY lax or non-existent. That needs to change. Nobody is suggesting taking away the right, but it's time to start treating it like the large responsibility that it is.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Cerberus to sell Bushmaster maker after shootings | Reuters

interesting ... and i found this truly ironic ... CalSTRS, the second-largest pension fund in the United States, had invested $751.4 million with Cerberus by the end of March 2012, according to its website.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I keep coming back to the idea that guns need to be regulated in a similar manner to cars. Cars are deadly machines, though they serve a much more practical purpose than a gun does. And we regulate them in many aspects that could be applied to guns...

Cars have safety inspections - have random inspections of gun owners to make sure they are safely storing their firearms
Cars have testing and licensing - test owners to make sure they can properly handle a firearm
Cars have age restrictions - don't allow children to handle and use firearms
Certain cars are not allowed on roadways - certain guns should not be allowed for private ownership

Regulations in this area are VERY lax or non-existent. That needs to change. Nobody is suggesting taking away the right, but it's time to start treating it like the large responsibility that it is.

I can get on board with that. I also think, like car inspections, you should have to renew a gun license every few years, get a psych exam, etc. Would it be a slight inconvenience to gun owners? Sure, but I think it would help. Just because you were sane when you got the gun doesn't mean you remain that way.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I keep coming back to the idea that guns need to be regulated in a similar manner to cars. Cars are deadly machines, though they serve a much more practical purpose than a gun does. And we regulate them in many aspects that could be applied to guns...

Cars have safety inspections - have random inspections of gun owners to make sure they are safely storing their firearms
Cars have testing and licensing - test owners to make sure they can properly handle a firearm
Cars have age restrictions - don't allow children to handle and use firearms
Certain cars are not allowed on roadways - certain guns should not be allowed for private ownership

Regulations in this area are VERY lax or non-existent. That needs to change. Nobody is suggesting taking away the right, but it's time to start treating it like the large responsibility that it is.

agree 100%




I havent followed the actual massacre stories but have read about the ancilliary issues (WHICH IS WHAT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON after grieving) and it should not be a simple 20 minute wait to buy an AR15 in a gunshop in Lynden Washington (border town)





/especially when Im down there filling garbage bags with gas

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I hope everyone read the article, one thing that jumped out at me was his concern over this......

“We’re 18 miles and 30 minutes from the nearest police station," Thweatt said. "So we are our first responders. If something happened here, we would have to protect our children. You know, police officers are true, everyday heroes in my book, but one of them once told me something very revealing. He said, ‘Ninety-five percent of the time, we get to the scene late.’ I can’t afford to let that happen.”


Not saying this changes my mind but there must be other ways of solving this problem. I know I'm one of the old timers here but I never ever thought there would be the need for having a conversation like this. This is just mind blowing.

 

[elocomotive]

and i am advocating for a change in that policy

perhaps only allow teachers with a CCW to carry....maybe even require those teachers to seek further training and bi annual qualifications

I'd advocate that is a huge mistake. It's one thing to have one or two armed professionals trained in security monitoring a school as their full-time job. Having 10 or 20 armed teachers who are not solely focused on that task would be a mistake. Gun owners are 4.5 times more likely to be the victim of a gun homicide than non-gun owners. You'd see children and school workers inadvertently shot, accidents, etc. that would far outweigh the benefits of MAYBE stopping or minimizing very rare spree killers.

 

[forty_three]

Wasn't this guy one of those "Goth" people? I am too lazy to Google and read about them and know very little (other than I guess they all wear black). Is that like a religion or cult ? Does anyone here know a "Goth" person?

This guy was not a "Goth" anyway. He was dressed in black because the tactical armor he was wearing was black.

LOL....ITS AIGHT


just another group of teenagers that "express their individuality" by dressing all the same

Yeah, pretty much.

But, would it be the worst thing in the world to have say a retired cop or vet working a security guard type of gig? He doesn't need to be armed to the teeth but somebody that can handle themselves and knows the deal, throw them on the payroll for whatever, $20K per year. I dunno, just throwing ideas out there.

2 things:
1) If it is known that there is an armed guard there, the shooter will just bring more firepower. No one goes to rob a bank with box knife.
2) An armed guard wouldn't have done anything in this situation. The school had a steel door and single entry point system with double pane glass. He blasted through that with his rifle, ambush style. An armed guard there would have just made the body count 28 instead of 27.

Texas

Texas should just shut up when the grown ups are talking.

I dont like the idea of sending my kid to a school that he has to walk past an armed guard to get into ...

"well we have to make the kids safe dont we???"

yah ... make it harder to get access to guns and minimize the risk

B-B-B-But 250 year old piece of paper!

yup and a teacher could snap too (who hasnt seen that? sans firearm of course )

No one snaps. It's either in the realm of possibility or it isn't. Factors add up to push a person beyond their personal point of no return. But no one has ever "snapped".

Oh, and this:
Bushmaster's Shockingly Awful "Man Card" Campaign

Bushmaster: the perfect weapon against Elementary School kids.

 

[whyoh]

I keep coming back to the idea that guns need to be regulated in a similar manner to cars. Cars are deadly machines, though they serve a much more practical purpose than a gun does. And we regulate them in many aspects that could be applied to guns...

Cars have safety inspections - have random inspections of gun owners to make sure they are safely storing their firearms
Cars have testing and licensing - test owners to make sure they can properly handle a firearm
Cars have age restrictions - don't allow children to handle and use firearms
Certain cars are not allowed on roadways - certain guns should not be allowed for private ownership

Regulations in this area are VERY lax or non-existent. That needs to change. Nobody is suggesting taking away the right, but it's time to start treating it like the large responsibility that it is.

the one thing is...with cars you are only required to do these things if/because they are on public roads

 

[jstewismybastardson]

btw acronym CalSTRS stands for California State Teachers' Retirement System

 

[forty_three]

I keep coming back to the idea that guns need to be regulated in a similar manner to cars. Cars are deadly machines, though they serve a much more practical purpose than a gun does. And we regulate them in many aspects that could be applied to guns...

Cars have safety inspections - have random inspections of gun owners to make sure they are safely storing their firearms
Cars have testing and licensing - test owners to make sure they can properly handle a firearm
Cars have age restrictions - don't allow children to handle and use firearms
Certain cars are not allowed on roadways - certain guns should not be allowed for private ownership

Regulations in this area are VERY lax or non-existent. That needs to change. Nobody is suggesting taking away the right, but it's time to start treating it like the large responsibility that it is.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

No one snaps. It's either in the realm of possibility or it isn't. Factors add up to push a person beyond their personal point of no return. But no one has ever "snapped".

i dont want to get into semantics ... Im just thinking back to when i was in highschool and we had our Lit 12 teacher lock us out of our morning class because she was having emotional and or mental issues ... principal had to enter with a key

this was before the days of lockdowns and emergency procedures to deal with this type of situation

and thinking back Im glad she didnt have access to a gun that day