OT: Shooting in Oregon Mall

[BOSSMANPC]

That points to the crux of the solution right there. Proper training is key. Mandatory training doesn't just mean safety training and marksmanship competency testing...it HAS to include stress training exercises in high-pressure situations to know when and when not to use deadly force. Think defensive driving training and emergency reaction training for guns. Some just don't have the mental fortitude or level-headedness to be able to handle themselves responsibly in high-pressure emergency situations.

Yes sir !! We had a situation here where a guy was holding up a bank (nice suburban area) one of the customers had a gun and when the bank robber left chased him into the parking lot firing off a few rounds. He did not hit the robber.

They interviewed one of the police at the scene and he said what the customer did even though he was trying to be helpful was very dangerous. He said when people get their pistol permits and go through the training it is not the same as being in a stressed situation, law enforcement and military personnel are trained for this most civilians are not. Shooting at a person running through a busy parking lot is not the same as shooting at paper targets. He could have easily killed an innocent person.

They decided not to charge him. IMO, they should have at least pulled his permit for a while.

 

[forty_three]

That points to the crux of the solution right there. Proper training is key. Mandatory training doesn't just mean safety training and marksmanship competency testing...it HAS to include stress training exercises in high-pressure situations to know when and when not to use deadly force. Think defensive driving training and emergency reaction training for guns. Some just don't have the mental fortitude or level-headedness to be able to handle themselves responsibly in high-pressure emergency situations.

The NRA would never go for that though, and they hold all the policy cards (and lobby money) on the pro-gun side.

Yes sir !! We had a situation here where a guy was holding up a bank (nice suburban area) one of the customers had a gun and when the bank robber left chased him into the parking lot firing off a few rounds. He did not hit the robber.

They interviewed one of the police at the scene and he said what the customer did even though he was trying to be helpful was very dangerous. He said when people get their pistol permits and go through the training it is not the same as being in a stressed situation, law enforcement and military personnel are trained for this most civilians are not. Shooting at a person running through a busy parking lot is not the same as shooting at paper targets. He could have easily killed an innocent person.

They decided not to charge him. IMO, they should have at least pulled his permit for a while.

 

[BF4L]

Yes sir !! We had a situation here where a guy was holding up a bank (nice suburban area) one of the customers had a gun and when the bank robber left chased him into the parking lot firing off a few rounds. He did not hit the robber.

They interviewed one of the police at the scene and he said what the customer did even though he was trying to be helpful was very dangerous. He said when people get their pistol permits and go through the training it is not the same as being in a stressed situation, law enforcement and military personnel are trained for this most civilians are not. Shooting at a person running through a busy parking lot is not the same as shooting at paper targets. He could have easily killed an innocent person.

They decided not to charge him. IMO, they should have at least pulled his permit for a while.

They should have yanked his LTC in my mind. I would have never done that in a million years. The threat is gone and all he got was money. Now if he started firing at tellers or something while I was in the bank that is a different story. I would have pulled and attempted to end the threat.

A bullet even from a 9mm pistol will carry quite a long ways. I have enjoyed some pistol shoots where we shoot from 100 yds and although it was new to me I was not terrible. I was not good either. Thats a long ways. Take into effect that most defense carry people use Hollow Point ammo a stray that hits the door of a car will most likely rip right threw it and possibly hit a innocent person. I am actually shocked they did not suspend his permit to carry.

 

[BF4L]

That points to the crux of the solution right there. Proper training is key. Mandatory training doesn't just mean safety training and marksmanship competency testing...it HAS to include stress training exercises in high-pressure situations to know when and when not to use deadly force. Think defensive driving training and emergency reaction training for guns. Some just don't have the mental fortitude or level-headedness to be able to handle themselves responsibly in high-pressure emergency situations.

The NRA would never go for that though, and they hold all the policy cards (and lobby money) on the pro-gun side.

Very good point. I would be in favor. I have been lucky and done a couple events that are combat based and it is hard. I hammered a pop up paper target of a women from 20 yds right in the noggin.

That is also a no stress situation other then the competing angle. It is not life or death. Anyone who wants to settle a dispute with another person with a gun should not have a gun. Gun's are for self defense and if you feel your life is in danger. Thats it. There is no other reason to pull it out.

 

[evolver115]

via CNN

[Updated at 4:11 p.m. ET] More on what the state's chief medical examiner told reporters minutes ago in Newtown: He said the "long weapon" was used in the shooting, and that the weapon caused all of the wounds that he knew of.

He didn't say what that weapon was, but a law enforcement source has previously said that the gunman was found dead with next to three guns: a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer.

The medical examiner, H. Wayne Carver II, said he personally did postmortem examinations of seven victims' bodies.

“All the wounds that I know of at this point were caused by the one weapon,” Carver said.

There is the reason why only one of the wounded survived this attack.

 

[BF4L]

Names of victims in Connecticut shooting released

Those killed at the school were 12 girls, eight boys and six female adults. They are listed below by name, date of birth , gender and age.

I am not sure I could possibly extend in words how fucking pissed off this makes me. Women and Children. What a goddamn fucking coward. Rot in Hell you piece of shit

 

[mattola]

something like this

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

something like this

It would be nice if the Nancy Grace's of the world would shut the hell up at times. This is one of them.

I agree with the above post. The media turns these people into celebrities, & for all the wrong reasons.

 

[mattola]

It would be nice if the Nancy Grace's of the world would shut the hell up at times. This is one of them.

I agree with the above post. The media turns these people into celebrities, & for all the wrong reasons.

without going back in this thread. I dont see many of us really talking too much about him just gun control and the victims. Im going to listen to morgan today.

 

[flyersfan4706]

something like this

 

[elocomotive]

something like this

Oh sure, I say it and nobody pays attention, but Morgan FREEMAN says it....

I haven't seen one minute of TV coverage of this tragedy. I read one article in the Post about it and that's it. Couldn't tell you what the dude's name is and it doesn't deserve any space in my memory banks.

 

[elocomotive]

This is an interesting perspective on a shift in the culture of guns. It's just an op/ed, so I'm not sure how true it is, but I see some truth in what he is saying.

 

[mattola]

Oh sure, I say it and nobody pays attention, but Morgan FREEMAN says it....

I haven't seen one minute of TV coverage of this tragedy. I read one article in the Post about it and that's it. Couldn't tell you what the dude's name is and it doesn't deserve any space in my memory banks.

Would it make you feel better if I read your post with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head

 

[dash]

Would it make you feel better if I read your post with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head

I could see why some of the boys took him for snobby. He had a quiet way about him, a walk and a talk that just wasn't normal around here. He strolled, like a man in a park without a care or a worry in the world, like he had on an invisible coat that would shield him from this place. Yeah, I think it would be fair to say...I liked Eloco from the start.

 

[Comeds]

I always read Eloco's posts with Sam Elliot's voice in my head.

 

[elocomotive]

Would it make you feel better if I read your post with Morgan Freeman's voice in my head

I could see why some of the boys took him for snobby. He had a quiet way about him, a walk and a talk that just wasn't normal around here. He strolled, like a man in a park without a care or a worry in the world, like he had on an invisible coat that would shield him from this place. Yeah, I think it would be fair to say...I liked Eloco from the start.

I always read Eloco's posts with Sam Elliot's voice in my head.

These three all in sequence had me laughing for minutes. Pizza all around.

Thanks, guys, though I always thought Donald Sutherland (even though Shawshenk is my favorite movie ever).

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

3 people shot in an Alabama hospital. Gunfire panics people in California mall. These are two of the headlines on my homepage. Then there was the shooting at the Excalibur Hotel in Las Vegas.

What the heck is wrong with people? This is ridiculous.

 

[elocomotive]

3 people shot in an Alabama hospital. Gunfire panics people in California mall. These are two of the headlines on my homepage. Then there was the shooting at the Excalibur Hotel in Las Vegas.

What the heck is wrong with people? This is ridiculous.

We have 10,000 to 15,000 gun-related homicides each year. That means your average day would have 25 to 40 or so. So, it seems to me that's only some of them. Those make the headlines because they are in a casino, a mall, and a hospital.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

We have 10,000 to 15,000 gun-related homicides each year. That means your average day would have 25 to 40 or so. So, it seems to me that's only some of them. Those make the headlines because they are in a casino, a mall, and a hospital.

The copycats seem to have already begun. This is nuts.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

something like this.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

It helps to be famous too. Does anyone remember the name Christina-Taylor Green? she was the nine year old little girl that was one of six people that died the day Gabby Giffords was shot by Jared Lee Loughner.

I'm glad that representative Giffords survived but I wonder how the family of that little girl and the families of the five others that were killed feel when every time they turned their TV on they kept hearing about how it was a miracle that Mrs Gifford survived.