OT -- Nelson Mandela died today at age 95

[TobyTyler]

And MLK wanted to help all people who were oppressed. You are distinguishing between a primary and secondary motivations. If we're splitting those hairs, none of the heroes you cited pass muster.

The heroes I named weren't helping oppressed people. They were saving nations, discovering new worlds or discovering medicines that saved millions of lives. I think I established well back what my criteria for a hero was.. Pray tell what Salk's ulterior motive for discovering a polio vaccine was or Fleming's for discovering penicillin.

 

[TobyTyler]

wayne gretzky is a true hero

imo all our coins should be switched from the queen to gretzky

Agreed. Your queen is a snooty old blue nosed bitch.

 

[optimist4720]

Nelson Mandela, a man of vision and persistence who had the courage to fight for his dream of freedom for his people. A man who had the insight to bridge the divide after he came to power . A man who offered the hand of friendship and unity to his former white masters. An example of what is best in mankind however imperfect that may be....an example of how we all should try to bridge our differences and come together as a nation. A world hero ..yes as he shows us the path... heroes come in all flavors of the rainbow and yes some of them are not white. World hero? Absolutely..the World has spoken with admiration for this black man..leader of his people..leader and example for all of Africa.. charismatic spokesperson for all people of color around the world A real life example of someone who stood his ground against a tyrannical regime of white rule giving us all courage to do the same.

 

[dredinis21]

The heroes I named weren't helping oppressed people. They were saving nations, discovering new worlds or discovering medicines that saved millions of lives. I think I established well back what my criteria for a hero was.. Pray tell what Salk's ulterior motive for discovering a polio vaccine was or Fleming's for discovering penicillin.

Do you see the hypocrisy of your cherry picked examples?

Thanks for playing though, Mandella. You didn't save 95% of your countrymen from segregation and white oppression or anything. It's cool. You didn't help reform a government, or preach peace through forgiveness, compassion, and non-violence. Nope.

TT, you are amazingly full of shit. Straight up.

 

[msgkings322]

Do you see the hypocrisy of your cherry picked examples?

Thanks for playing though, Mandella. You didn't save 95% of your countrymen from segregation and white oppression or anything. It's cool. You didn't help reform a government, or preach peace through forgiveness, compassion, and non-violence. Nope.

TT, you are amazingly full of shit. Straight up.

Now you're seeing it...this is what this prick is like talking sports, and so you figure 'well in real stuff he can't possibly be that full of shit'. But then he very is much is like that.

Just a loathesome person.

 

[TobyTyler]

Nelson Mandela, a man of vision and persistence who had the courage to fight for his dream of freedom for his people. A man who had the insight to bridge the divide after he came to power . A man who offered the hand of friendship and unity to his former white masters. An example of what is best in mankind however imperfect that may be....an example of how we all should try to bridge our differences and come together as a nation. A world hero ..yes as he shows us the path... heroes come in all flavors of the rainbow and yes some of them are not white. World hero? Absolutely..the World has spoken with admiration for this black man..leader of his people..leader and example for all of Africa.. charismatic spokesperson for all people of color around the world A real life example of someone who stood his ground against a tyrannical regime of white rule giving us all courage to do the same.

Exactly!

 

[TobyTyler]

Do you see the hypocrisy of your cherry picked examples?

Thanks for playing though, Mandella. You didn't save 95% of your countrymen from segregation and white oppression or anything. It's cool. You didn't help reform a government, or preach peace through forgiveness, compassion, and non-violence. Nope.

TT, you are amazingly full of shit. Straight up.

Mandela fought for his people, we agree. A great man, yes, but also a murderer and maimer of innocent people. He was a man who did what he had to do. But clearly a instrument of political expediency by the American government still tryin g to live down its reputation as the most racist society in the world. Bottom line is Mandela was no different from any other politician.

 

[TobyTyler]

Now you're seeing it...this is what this prick is like talking sports, and so you figure 'well in real stuff he can't possibly be that full of shit'. But then he very is much is like that.

Just a loathesome person.

Hey, look who showed up to squeal his usual lament.

 

[zman1527]

Mandela fought for his people, we agree. A great man, yes, but also a murderer and maimer of innocent people. He was a man who did what he had to do. But clearly a instrument of political expediency by the American government still tryin g to live down its reputation as the most racist society in the world. Bottom line is Mandela was no different from any other politician.

wow, really? I would say he is quite a bit different than guys like Bush and Cheney.


The internet is a useful thing: it allows some to crawl out from under their rocks and show us just how narrowminded humans can be.

 

[optimist4720]

Mandela fought for his people, we agree. A great man, yes, but also a murderer and maimer of innocent people. He was a man who did what he had to do. But clearly a instrument of political expediency by the American government still tryin g to live down its reputation as the most racist society in the world. Bottom line is Mandela was no different from any other politician. The racist apartheid govt. was not "innocent" nor were its supporters. There certainly was no slaughter of innocents as one sees during revolutions and the aftermath. In fact, the toppling of the apartheid govt and the revolution that occurred there was very minimal in terms of loss of life and destruction. In fact, it was extremely peaceful in that regard compared to most revolutions. As far as "being like most politicians" statement...Mandela was certainly NOT like most politicians... he sought neither riches nor extreme gain from his office. Nor did he exact revenge when he won. In fact, he was atypical of most politicians. He did not appoint himself king for life nor did he try to hold power as he aged, but rather, was elected on the democratic model based on the English model of those he overthrew. One can only wonder what side of the apartheid coin you would have supported given your admiration for the conservative sheriff Arpaio , who in his ACTIONS, shows himself to be a self aggrandizing supporter of the status quo white majority of AZ. zealously enforcing questionable laws and squelching the civil rights of a rising Mexican population in AZ. Your self admitted admiration for this prick is

 

[NinerSickness]

...zealously enforcing questionable laws and squelching the civil rights of a rising Mexican population in AZ. Your self admitted admiration for this prick is

What's lame is this last part of your post. You're indicting a sheriff for enforcing the laws of the land. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Not everyone likes every law there is; that doesn't mean it's ok to pick and choose which ones will be enforced and which ones won't.

 

[whysies]

What's lame is this last part of your post. You're indicting a sheriff for enforcing the laws of the land. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Not everyone likes every law there is; that doesn't mean it's ok to pick and choose which ones will be enforced and which ones won't.

Disagree.

If some homophobic sheriff is going around trying to catch people committing sodomy in the privacy of their own home (assuming that was still the law in that state) instead of catching bad guys then that sheriff is a bad sheriff. He should be picking and choosing in that case and anyone who supports him is a tard, IMO.

 

[optimist4720]

Dissagee. The point is he choose to enforce laws selectively against a targeted group. Laws of the land? You mean the laws of Az. which the constitutionality is in question in lieu of the fact that they are enforced only upon a minority population. Albeit some o them are illegal aliens, however, they enforcement is also against American Mexican citizens also, with profiling and selective enforcement the rue of the day. No problems with enforcing laws if they are uniform to all..but that's the point ..they are not uniform to all but targeted at a select population group, which by some odd coincidence happen to be a minority group with skin color.

 

[NinerSickness]

Dissagee. The point is he choose to enforce laws selectively against a targeted group. Laws of the land? You mean the laws of Az. which the constitutionality is in question in lieu of the fact that they are enforced only upon a minority population.

That's for the Judicial branch of the government to decide not a friggn' sheriff. A sheriff is not a judge. And "the land" includes Arizona.

 

[optimist4720]

Point is the wheels of justice move very slowly. Point is AZ. laws are not the laws of the land..just Az. land. Laws to be just must be uniform and applied uniformly. Sheriff Joe Arpaio applies laws as he see fit.. and again what part of selective enforcement do you not understand? The problem here isn't enforcement of the law..its the enforcement of the law against one segment of the population with bias against minorities. The courts of Az. are loaded with conservative white judges..so there is a lock of judicial review and it moves very slowly. And yes, the guy is a prick period. If you are Mexican ther eis an excellent chance you are harassed even as an American citizen..asked for proof of citizenship etc. ..question is if you are white are you subjected to the same rules? Nope..and that's the point.

 

[NinerSickness]

Point is the wheels of justice move very slowly. Point is AZ. laws are not the laws of the land..just Az. land. Laws to be just must be uniform and applied uniformly.

You seriously need to brush up on your constitution. CA or NY don't have to obey AZ laws and vice versa. You're thinking of FEDERAL laws not state laws. You should have learned this in high school.

 

[optimist4720]

May 10, 2012 |




































On May 10, the Department of Justice filed a formal legal complaint against Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office (MCSO) alleging widespread constitutional violations and lawless mistreatment of Latinos. According to the complaint, Arpaio and his staff engaged in widespread, violent and demeaning mistreatment of Latino residents of Maricopa County, often targeting individuals solely because of their race:

1. Forcing Women To Sleep In Their Own Menstrual Blood: In Arpaio’s jails, “female Latino LEP prisoners have been denied basic sanitary items. In some instances, female Latino LEP prisoners have been forced to remain with sheets or pants soiled from menstruation because of MCSO’s failure to ensure that detention officers provide language assistance in such circumstances.”

2. Assaulting Pregnant Women: “[A]n MCSO officer stopped a Latina woman – a citizen of the United States and five months pregnant at the time – as she pulled into her driveway. After she exited her car, the officer then insisted that she sit on the hood of the car. When she refused, the officer grabbed her arms, pulled them behind her back, and slammed her, stomach first, into the vehicle three times. He then dragged her to the patrol car and shoved her into the backseat. He left her in the patrol car for approximately 30 minutes without air conditioning. The MCSO officer ultimately issued a citation for failure to provide identification.”

3. Stalking Latino Women: “In another instance, during a crime suppression operation, two MCSO officers followed a Latina woman, a citizen of the United States, for a quarter of a mile to her home. The officers did not turn on their emergency lights, but insisted that the woman remain in her car when she attempted to exit the car and enter her home. The officers’ stated reasons for approaching the woman was a non-functioning license plate light. When the woman attempted to enter her home, the officers used force to take her to the ground, kneed her in the back, and handcuffed her. The woman was then taken to an MCSO substation, cited for ‘disorderly conduct,’ and returned home. The disorderly conduct citation was subsequently dismissed.”

4. Criminalizing Being A Latino: “During raids, [Arpaio's Criminal Enforcement Squad] typically seizes all Latinos present, whether they are listed on the warrant or not. For example, in one raid CES had a search warrant for 67 people, yet 109 people were detained. Fifty-nine people were arrested and 50 held for several hours before they were released. Those detained, but not on the warrant, were seized because they were Latino and present at the time of the raid. No legal justification existed for their detention.”

5. Criminalizing Living Next To The Wrong People: “[D]uring a raid of a house suspected of containing human smugglers and their victims . . . officers went to an adjacent house, which was occupied by a Latino family. The officers entered the adjacent house and searched it, without a warrant and without the residents’ knowing consent. Although they found no evidence of criminal activity, after the search was over, the officers zip-tied the residents, a Latino man, a legal permanent resident of the United States, and his 12-year-old Latino son, a citizen of the United States, and required them to sit on the sidewalk for more than one hour, along with approximately 10 persons who had been seized from the target house, before being released”

6. Ignoring r*pe: Because of Arpaio’s obsessive focus on “low-level immigration offenses” his officers failed “to adequately respond to reports of sexual violence, including allegations of r*pe, sexual assault, and sexual abuse of girls.”















7. Widespread Use Of Racial Slurs: “MCSO personnel responsible for prisoners held in MCSO jails routinely direct racial slurs toward Latino prisoners, including calling Latino prisoners ‘paisas,’ ‘wetbacks,’ ‘Mexican bitches,’ ‘fucking Mexicans,’ and ‘stupid Mexicans.’”

8. Widespread Racial Profiling: “n the southwest portion of the County, the study found that Latino drivers are almost four times more likely to be stopped by MCSO officers than non-Latino drivers engaged in similar conduct. . . . In the northwest portion of the County, the study found that Latino drivers are over seven times more likely to be stopped by MCSO officers than non-Latino drivers engaged in similar conduct. . . . Most strikingly, in the northeast portion of the County, the study found that Latino drivers are nearly nine times more likely to be stopped by MCSO officers than non-Latino drivers engaged in similar conduct.”

9. Random, Unlawful Detention Of Latinos: “MCSO officers stopped a car carrying four Latino men, although the car was not violating any traffic laws. The MCSO officers ordered the men out of the car, zip-tied them, and made them sit on the curb for an hour before releasing all of them. The only reason given for the stop was that the men’s car ‘was a little low,’ which is not a criminal or traffic violation.”

10. Group Punishments For Latinos: “In some instances, when a Latino [Low English Proficiency] prisoner has been unable to understand commands given in English, MCSO detention officers have put an entire area of the jail in lockdown—effectively preventing all the prisoners in that area from accessing a number of privileges because of the Latino LEP prisoner’s inability to understand English, inciting hostility toward the LEP prisoner, and potentially placing MCSO officers and other prisoners in harm’s way.”

 

[optimist4720]

America’s Worst Sheriff (Joe Arpaio)

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD


Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz., which includes Phoenix and its sprawling surroundings, is an aggressive self-promoter with a new claim to fame: a reality show on Fox called “Smile … You’re Under Arrest!” It’s a “Candid Camera” for crooks, with actors luring fugitives into compromising situations, for laughs.

It’s easy to snicker at the sight of a publicity-addicted law-enforcement official wallowing with the dregs of reality TV, sharing a channel with shows like “My Bare Lady,” “The Glutton Bowl” and “World Famous for Dicking Around.”

But Sheriff Arpaio is armed and dangerous. He is a genuine public menace with a long and well-documented trail of inmate abuses, unjustified arrests, racial profiling, brutal and inept policing and wasteful spending.

For years he has won fawning press coverage by playing the role of “America’s Toughest Sheriff.” But now another side of the story — that is, the truth — is leaking out.

The latest example is a report released this month that sums up, in devastating detail, the cost of Sheriff Arpaio’s reign. It was issued not by the sheriff’s usual critics — whom he routinely dismisses as a band of bleeding-hearts — but by the Goldwater Institute, a think tank dedicated to the principles of the late Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater, an obelisk of conservatism.

Read a summary here, or the full pdf.

Here’s the gist.

What has risen on Sheriff Arpaio’s watch: violent crimes (up 69 percent overall from 2004 to 2007, with homicides up 166 percent in those three years), 911 response times, unserved arrest warrants, racist sweeps of Latino neighborhoods, and dollars paid out in budget overruns, overtime and lawsuit settlements.

What has declined: the arrest rate, the number of satellite booking stations, public access to department records, Sheriff Arpaio’s reputation.

The Goldwater report must bring some comfort to the residents of Maricopa County who have spent years raising the alarm about Sheriff Arpaio, with little effect outside Arizona.

They include a Web site, barriozona.com, that has tracked the sheriff’s terrorizing sweeps through Latino neighborhoods, and a dogged reporter, Stephen Lemons of The Phoenix New Times, who keeps the heat on Sheriff Arpaio in his blog. Mr. Lemons recently posted some chilling video from a public meeting of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, where Sheriff Arpaio’s deputies arrested citizens … for clapping.

Sheriff Arpaio was elected to a fifth term in November and is riding high, at least in the worlds of bad policing and jackass television.

But pride, they say, goes before a fall. Here’s hoping!
NYT editorial page 2008

 

[TobyTyler]

wow, really? I would say he is quite a bit different than guys like Bush and Cheney.


The internet is a useful thing: it allows some to crawl out from under their rocks and show us just how narrowminded humans can be.

Well, they all three were responsible for killing and maiming innocent civilians.

 

[optimist4720]

Point is the lesson of Mandela and Dr. King is to fight injustice everywhere especially in the USA given we are the ones who claim to be defenders of freedom and justice. Don't turn a blind eye just because the injustice is being perpetuated upon a minority group and doesn't affect you. In many ways our system is only as good as the minority groups we protect form the tyranny of the majority.