OT -- Nelson Mandela died today at age 95

[RoboticDreams]

Not at all..they should follow the laws of immigration as do most of the other prospective immigrants do. But to be sure there are others here from other nations here illegally also. The point is that one cannot just round em up and ship them out without ALSO compromising the rights of LEGALS. If YOU WANT TO IMPLEMENT SUCH A LAW YOU MUST ALSO IMPLEMENT IT UPON US ALL IS THE POINT. Otherwise you are racial profiling. Show us papers is fine as long as you make everyone show their papers! One for all all for one is the exact point. To be a fair system , you must show papers no matter what color or ethnic background you come from or as I prefer, NOT AT ALL for any and all. Funny how Arizonians are all about states rights and anti-federal govt. yet all about the state govt doing the heavy handed boot stomping that they so detest in the federal govt. They keep saying they want the govt out of their lives but then pass a law making sure the govt is stopping a certain segement of the population from being free of the govt. Point is the enforcement of that particular law is exactly what they should detest the most. But because it is implemented against a brown minority group its "OK". Meanwhile, Meth labs and the white drug problem that is a scourge gets little mention probably due to its popularity among certain white groups. Again, read what your precious sheriff has done to American citizens of Mexican descent and how little he has done with the real crime in his county. As far as the Jewish being "OK" with showing their papers and proving their identity check again as it was one of the reasons they were so easily rounded up in Nazi Germany once they were identified. Point is NO AMERICAN should have to prove their identity at the point of a gun or threat of imprisonment during a so called sweep. Its called due process. If you suspect someone being here illegally you have to follow due process or you risk breaking the laws you so lovingly hold. Ie the BILL of Rights..I cherish those rights and will always stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. Again, you have NO ANSWER to the rights of American Mexican citizens whose rights have been impinged upon. It seems just fine with you that they just don't matter only with rights matter..and that again is my point..The Bill of Rights applies to us all. That means you cannot just sweep people up and ask for ID without probable cause.

OMG, dude, are you Mexican? If not, stfu. If so, have your family go through the proper channels and do it legally. It's NOT my problem that, that country is atrocious. Why should my tax dollars pay for these illegals to have free healthcare at the local clinic?

Explain yourself.

 

[TobyTyler]

Not at all..they should follow the laws of immigration as do most of the other prospective immigrants do. But to be sure there are others here from other nations here illegally also. The point is that one cannot just round em up and ship them out without ALSO compromising the rights of LEGALS. If YOU WANT TO IMPLEMENT SUCH A LAW YOU MUST ALSO IMPLEMENT IT UPON US ALL IS THE POINT. Otherwise you are racial profiling. Show us papers is fine as long as you make everyone show their papers! One for all all for one is the exact point. To be a fair system , you must show papers no matter what color or ethnic background you come from or as I prefer, NOT AT ALL for any and all. Funny how Arizonians are all about states rights and anti-federal govt. yet all about the state govt doing the heavy handed boot stomping that they so detest in the federal govt. They keep saying they want the govt out of their lives but then pass a law making sure the govt is stopping a certain segement of the population from being free of the govt. Point is the enforcement of that particular law is exactly what they should detest the most. But because it is implemented against a brown minority group its "OK". Meanwhile, Meth labs and the white drug problem that is a scourge gets little mention probably due to its popularity among certain white groups. Again, read what your precious sheriff has done to American citizens of Mexican descent and how little he has done with the real crime in his county. As far as the Jewish being "OK" with showing their papers and proving their identity check again as it was one of the reasons they were so easily rounded up in Nazi Germany once they were identified. Point is NO AMERICAN should have to prove their identity at the point of a gun or threat of imprisonment during a so called sweep. Its called due process. If you suspect someone being here illegally you have to follow due process or you risk breaking the laws you so lovingly hold. Ie the BILL of Rights..I cherish those rights and will always stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. Again, you have NO ANSWER to the rights of American Mexican citizens whose rights have been impinged upon. It seems just fine with you that they just don't matter only with rights matter..and that again is my point..The Bill of Rights applies to us all. That means you cannot just sweep people up and ask for ID without probable cause.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I have no problem with racial profiling. If the description of a suspect is 20-25 year old black male then I believe you should only check those meeting that description. Only a fool would waste time by stopping every white or Asian person he sees. That's whay I have no problem with targeting Mexicans here. They meet the description of the criminals who have entered this country illegally and racial profiling is the key to discovering them.

And the Bill of Rights does not apply to all people. It applies to American citizens only.

 

[optimist4720]

You have to find another way to handle the problem of illegals. Ohh and BTW..the actual flow of the "hordes" is about even these days. The flow has abated quite a bit...just not the flow of drugs from south of the border. The actual cost is a net benefit to American GDP and economy. They work cheap ,work pretty hard, and get cheated by their employers just like the rest of us. I would like them to pay into the system more but that will come in time if they are allowed a path to citizenship which I am certainly for.

 

[optimist4720]

"OMG, dude, are you Mexican? If not, stfu. If so, have your family go through the proper channels and do it legally. It's NOT my problem that, that country is atrocious. Why should my tax dollars pay for these illegals to have free healthcare at the local clinic?"
OMG... No..Not of Latino descent. But am a fan of the American Constitution and specifically the Bill of Rights.. which does apply to ALL citizens equally. And that means that if you allow the trampling of Rights for one group it allows the trampling of rights for us all. In the example, Sheriff A-Hole tramples on the right of American citizens who happen to be of Mexican descent. If you allow that law to stand and allow its selective enforcement you allow for it to be done again for another group of citizens that the majority may not like. That is again the point. Selective enforcement.. racial profiling.. lack of due process. Pretty simple concept really.

 

[RoboticDreams]

"OMG, dude, are you Mexican? If not, stfu. If so, have your family go through the proper channels and do it legally. It's NOT my problem that, that country is atrocious. Why should my tax dollars pay for these illegals to have free healthcare at the local clinic?"
OMG... No..Not of Latino descent. But am a fan of the American Constitution and specifically the Bill of Rights.. which does apply to ALL citizens equally. And that means that if you allow the trampling of Rights for one group it allows the trampling of rights for us all. In the example, Sheriff A-Hole tramples on the right of American citizens who happen to be of Mexican descent. If you allow that law to stand and allow its selective enforcement you allow for it to be done again for another group of citizens that the majority may not like. That is again the point. Selective enforcement.. racial profiling.. lack of due process. Pretty simple concept really.

Press the quote button, bro.

 

[TobyTyler]

You have to find another way to handle the problem of illegals. Ohh and BTW..the actual flow of the "hordes" is about even these days. The flow has abated quite a bit...just not the flow of drugs from south of the border. The actual cost is a net benefit to American GDP and economy. They work cheap ,work pretty hard, and get cheated by their employers just like the rest of us. I would like them to pay into the system more but that will come in time if they are allowed a path to citizenship which I am certainly for.

They are not afraid of hard work, we agree on that and they work cheap and do good work. I use Mexicans all the time for my landscaping needs. Inever ask them for ID either. I just don't like the feds butting in to Arizona business. The people of this state have spoken at the ballot box and it is the duty of our elected officials to carry out their wishes.

 

[TobyTyler]

Press the quote button, bro.

Ha ha! he's forgotten to do that a few times and it makes it tough to read and tell who is saying what.

 

[optimist4720]

Actually, most illegals dont use the health system that much..or at least dont use it near as much as you think due to the fear of discovery. How do you know they are illegals? hmmm did you check their immigration status when they were in the clinic? NO I didn't think so. YOu assume that they are illegals based on their latino look. The true cost of latino illegals is vastly overstated and in fact they are a net contributor to the economy. They do cost money to us taxpayers but not near to the extent that is claimed. Do they collect SS?..uhh no..do they collect disability?..uhh no..do they collect medicare or medicade?..uhh no... do they collect unemployment benefits?..uhh no. Are they on welfare?..uhh no. Do they collect govt pensions?.. uhh no. Do they pay taxes? good questions..sometimes indirectly thru rent and consumption of goods..sales taxes. They also sometimes pay taxes thru employers who doctor paperwork falsely . So to claim they use more than they contribute is quite debateable. Point is your tax dollars are actually spent on the military ~40%, SS benefits for us all, medicare, and medicade. And most likely your tax dollars dont amout to a hill of beans if you are part of the so called 47%. You actually receive more benefits than you contribute. If however , you are part of the top 10% you might have a beef. But I always say its better to have something to complain about and pay higher taxes than to have a lower income and not be paying taxes.

 

[optimist4720]

They are not afraid of hard work, we agree on that and they work cheap and do good work. I use Mexicans all the time for my landscaping needs. Inever ask them for ID either. I just don't like the feds butting in to Arizona business. The people of this state have spoken at the ballot box and it is the duty of our elected officials to carry out their wishes.

You al happy now? Actually, if you hire them and not check their paper you are a contributor to the problem you claim them to be. You are also breaking the law. Not that I care.. I hire some day labor without checking immigration status also.. but its ok cuz I don't have a problem with them in general. Do they work hard..to a point they do...but not as hard as me doing the same job side by side. Yes, I will work with them cleaning my yard or moving stuff. Pay them well better than the ~$10/hr under the table standard deal and comp them a case of Corona for a job hopefully well done. That's cuz I'm a fair guy to work for. As for the FEDS butting in.. they wont butt in if your state would enforce the law Uniformly using due process. If sheriff A-Hole didn't use his roundup tactics so harshly they wouldn't be involved. He's like the IRS trying to scare them by using bulling tactics. Problem is he isn't just targeting illegals..he is targeting American citizens also. 50% or more of those detained are citizens of your state and country. Paying the same taxes you do. That's the problem..You cnat enforce the law without hurting and impinging on the rights of American citizens who just happen to be a minority and of color. Hence, you bring the justice dept. into the fray due to your lawmaker lack of care when drafting the law to make sure these abuses dont happen.

 

[TobyTyler]

Actually, most illegals dont use the health system that much..or at least dont use it near as much as you think due to the fear of discovery. How do you know they are illegals? hmmm did you check their immigration status when they were in the clinic? NO I didn't think so. YOu assume that they are illegals based on their latino look. The true cost of latino illegals is vastly overstated and in fact they are a net contributor to the economy. They do cost money to us taxpayers but not near to the extent that is claimed. Do they collect SS?..uhh no..do they collect disability?..uhh no..do they collect medicare or medicade?..uhh no... do they collect unemployment benefits?..uhh no. Are they on welfare?..uhh no. Do they collect govt pensions?.. uhh no. Do they pay taxes? good questions..sometimes indirectly thru rent and consumption of goods..sales taxes. They also sometimes pay taxes thru employers who doctor paperwork falsely . So to claim they use more than they contribute is quite debateable. Point is your tax dollars are actually spent on the military ~40%, SS benefits for us all, medicare, and medicade. And most likely your tax dollars dont amout to a hill of beans if you are part of the so called 47%. You actually receive more benefits than you contribute. If however , you are part of the top 10% you might have a beef. But I always say its better to have something to complain about and pay higher taxes than to have a lower income and not be paying taxes.

Could you sound any dumber with all the "uhh no" stuff? I could not even finish reading your post after that nonsense. The cost to the tax-paying public for these illegals is enormous. Their kids have to be educated as well and they pay no taxes to support the school system. Additonally when these people are sick, they use the emergency room as their personal physicians. The hospitals do not turn them away, instead they pay for this by increasing the price of medicine, surgical costs and health insurance and pass that bill on to us.

 

[TobyTyler]

You al happy now? Actually, if you hire them and not check their paper you are a contributor to the problem you claim them to be. You are also breaking the law. Not that I care.. I hire some day labor without checking immigration status also.. but its ok cuz I don't have a problem with them in general. Do they work hard..to a point they do...but not as hard as me doing the same job side by side. Yes, I will work with them cleaning my yard or moving stuff. Pay them well better than the ~$10/hr under the table standard deal and comp them a case of Corona for a job hopefully well done. That's cuz I'm a fair guy to work for. As for the FEDS butting in.. they wont butt in if your state would enforce the law Uniformly using due process. If sheriff A-Hole didn't use his roundup tactics so harshly they wouldn't be involved. He's like the IRS trying to scare them by using bulling tactics. Problem is he isn't just targeting illegals..he is targeting American citizens also. 50% or more of those detained are citizens of your state and country. Paying the same taxes you do. That's the problem..You cnat enforce the law without hurting and impinging on the rights of American citizens who just happen to be a minority and of color. Hence, you bring the justice dept. into the fray due to your lawmaker lack of care when drafting the law to make sure these abuses dont happen.

How do you know I'm breaking the law? I don't ask them for paperwork just like I wouldn't ask an American worker who I wanted to work on my yard. According to you, I would be infringing upon their civil rights if I did ask them. Which way do you want it?

Arpaio is awesome and I'm sure he doesn't give a shit what liberal butinskis like you think about him. He feels nothing but disdain for your ilk I'm sure and he dosn't detain anyone illegally. If they show their ID they are good to go, if they can't they face the consequences for the law they have broken.

 

[optimist4720]

OHH ..and BTW ..yes STANFORD just won the PAC12 championship ...U of Spoiled Children.. NOT! Just a friendly poke there...I was a Cal undergrad and we suck.. but my Cardinals (grad school) did just fine

 

[TobyTyler]

OHH ..and BTW ..yes STANFORD just won the PAC12 championship ...U of Spoiled Children.. NOT! Just a friendly poke there...I was a Cal undergrad and we suck.. but my Cardinals (grad school) did just fine

I admire Stanford's football program because they do it with real students and not thugs off the streets who have no business being in college. They even have a white tailback; that is almost unheard of in this day of black dominated sports.

 

[optimist4720]

I admire Stanford's football program because they do it with real students and not thugs off the streets who have no business being in college. They even have a white tailback; that is almost unheard of in this day of black dominated sports.

I think Stanford is the best all around school in the nation given it's rich academic heritage and excellent sports programs to boot. Not of fan of sports programs without emphasis on schoolwork either. But that is the American way.. it's all about the money. Colleges make way too much on the deal. Most of the player sacrifice their bodies for a chance at fame and a pro career but most do not make it. As far as the "white" tailback...well if you're big fast and shifty color doesn't matter. As for the thug comment..not a fan of thugs either...or the lack of manners and proper sportsmanship in modern sports..but alas that is what the game has evolved into.

 

[TobyTyler]

I think Stanford is the best all around school in the nation given it's rich academic heritage and excellent sports programs to boot. Not of fan of sports programs without emphasis on schoolwork either. But that is the American way.. it's all about the money. Colleges make way too much on the deal. Most of the player sacrifice their bodies for a chance at fame and a pro career but most do not make it. As far as the "white" tailback...well if you're big fast and shifty color doesn't matter. As for the thug comment..not a fan of thugs either...or the lack of manners and proper sportsmanship in modern sports..but alas that is what the game has evolved into.

My dad taught at Cal for many years but always said that Stanford was the superior school academically. If a player doesn't make it as a professional he can always put a Stanford education to good use. SC is a good school too.

 

[optimist4720]

How do you know I'm breaking the law? I don't ask them for paperwork just like I wouldn't ask an American worker who I wanted to work on my yard. According to you, I would be infringing upon their civil rights if I did ask them. Which way do you want it?

Arpaio is awesome and I'm sure he doesn't give a shit what liberal butinskis like you think about him. He feels nothing but disdain for your ilk I'm sure and he dosn't detain anyone illegally. If they show their ID they are good to go, if they can't they face the consequences for the law they have broken.

Arpiaio is an Ahole and while I'm sure you are right he doesn't give a shit ..that just proves my point ..he isn't accountable to those who believe in due process or trampling on the rights of ALL Americans. The point is he HAS detained people who were American citizens. Furthermore, he has NOT contained the explosion of more violent crime in his county...his main duty. It's like a fireman rounding up the cats while the arsonist walks right past him. As for you breaking the law, yes it is illegal to hire a suspected illegal. Not my law , but it is the law. If you choose to ignore it so be it. I also choose to ignore it but I don't believe in the law so at least I'm not being a hypocrite about it.

 

[optimist4720]

Furthermore, since I don't live in your state Nazi-zona I'm not subject to it's arcane laws and practices. I just have to follow the laws of the state I reside in.

 

[TobyTyler]

Arpiaio is an Ahole and while I'm sure you are right he doesn't give a shit ..that just proves my point ..he isn't accountable to those who believe in due process or trampling on the rights of ALL Americans. The point is he HAS detained people who were American citizens. Furthermore, he has NOT contained the explosion of more violent crime in his county...his main duty. It's like a fireman rounding up the cats while the arsonist walks right past him. As for you breaking the law, yes it is illegal to hire a suspected illegal. Not my law , but it is the law. If you choose to ignore it so be it. I also choose to ignore it but I don't believe in the law so at least I'm not being a hypocrite about it.

Well, a major contributor to the crime explosion in Phoenix involves the hispanic population. Not sure why that is, probably the poverty that many live in. I don't suspect the people who do work for me of being illegals. They are innocent until proven otherwise. Do I have a problem with the lawmen in Arizona questioning them about their status, no I don't. I would expect nothing less, that is their job. Its not my job to try and ascertain that though.

 

[TobyTyler]

Furthermore, since I don't live in your state Nazi-zona I'm not subject to it's arcane laws and practices. I just have to follow the laws of the state I reside in.

That statement shows me that you are complely ignorant about Arizona and what goes on here. If you are foolish enough to believe what you hear and read in the news and repeat it without bothering to try and find out if it is true then I guess that borders on stupidity. This is my third favorite state in the union and its a pretty nice place to live and raise a family. I, like you, was ignorant before I came here and thought Arizona would be a far less desirable place to live than California but once I got here, I liked it. That's why everyone comes here and once they come, they never leave.

 

[optimist4720]

My dad taught at Cal for many years but always said that Stanford was the superior school academically. If a player doesn't make it as a professional he can always put a Stanford education to good use. SC is a good school too.

Cal was ranked the top school in the nation when I went there, but I had my doubts back then as I do now. It certainly is in the top 5 public school in the nation academically. As for Stanford, it has always been a top 5school at the least and has a great overall program. It was a bit elitist for my taste, but I suppose that goes with the territory. USC is a fine school though the neighborhood is not so. Watts isn't my bag either. I spent my whole early life trying to get out of the ghetto so no need to go back there...Watts and all. Not a fan of that place or Oakland either, even though I root for the Raiders also since I grew up there. I am a Bay Area sports fan plain and simple. But truth be told I do like USC since it is a PAC 12 school and do hope good things for them as well as Oregon and AZ. State. Just the PAC12 in me I guess. So Yes, I do root for AZ. schools also even given the political divide that separates us.