Offseason Football and Basketball Thread

[WhoDatDevil]

Correct, UofA beat ASU last year in Tucson in what was a wild game. Keep in mind however, Jaelen Strong had a broken wrist and Taylor Kelly was recovering from a broken foot. Mike Bercovicci starts that game and I think they win.

Congratulations on your 3rd ever fiesta bowl appearance though where you had a shot to win your second. ASU has won five of those.

Please remember this prediction; If Berco stays healthy, ASU beats UofA by 20 or more in Tempe next season. That would make Graham 3-1 vs UofA in his tenure. Like if said before, too young, not enough depth, and too much talent on ASU's roster. Schematically the 3-3-5 doesn't work well vs a heavy running team and I think ASU will be able to run it at will. I think it could possibly turn into a game like two seasons ago where our 3rd string takes the final snaps.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

Could have, should have, would have....stop living in the "well if this had happened, then his would have happened. That's like us saying if Matt Scott hadn't of fumbled the ball then RR beats fraud Todd in their first meeting but you don't hear us saying that right?

Oh and too much talent on asu's roster . You guys crack me up seriously

 

[The Derski]

Correct, UofA beat ASU last year in Tucson in what was a wild game. Keep in mind however, Jaelen Strong had a broken wrist and Taylor Kelly was recovering from a broken foot. Mike Bercovicci starts that game and I think they win.

Congratulations on your 3rd ever fiesta bowl appearance though where you had a shot to win your second. ASU has won five of those.

Please remember this prediction; If Berco stays healthy, ASU beats UofA by 20 or more in Tempe next season. That would make Graham 3-1 vs UofA in his tenure. Like if said before, too young, not enough depth, and too much talent on ASU's roster. Schematically the 3-3-5 doesn't work well vs a heavy running team and I think ASU will be able to run it at will. I think it could possibly turn into a game like two seasons ago where our 3rd string takes the final snaps.

Lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Scummies coming to our board because the ASU board is just you and fork jerking each other nonstop. Rich Rod is the real deal and probably the best coach in the conference. I think UA will be winners as long as he's here.

 

[WhoDatDevil]

You can laugh all you want but, Foster, Berco, Kelly, Westerman, Cherry, Hood, Longino, Carrington, Brown, and Simone are all seniors. I see at least five of those players getting drafted. There's more overall talent on this team than ever before. Having a team like that gives you the confidence to schedule teams like A&M to begin the year. I just don't see how a close game is possible in Tempe.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

I'd sit here and continue this pissing contest but it's almost like having a debate with a 10 year old so I'll say this; ASU has 2 advantages over us this year, and it's not personnel. First of all we don't get a bye week this year.; that can be HUGE if you ask me. We play 12 straight games so the chances that we're tired and/or inured by the time we play the scummies is much higher this time around. Second of all ASU has home field advantage, which never hurts to have.

But to say that ASU has an overwhelming advantage in talent is you simply being naive. Both teams are fairly even if you ask me. This isn't a few years ago where ASU DID have better talent and more depth. In fact, I can make the argument that UofA DOES in fact have better talent than ASU this year but at that point we'd be arguing over personal opinions and I'd rather see both teams PLAY first before trying to pick who's team is better. No matter what, I fully expect another war from both teams this year.

 

[WhoDatDevil]

Lets look at it this way. Here's a list of the Returning All-Conference Players:

First Team Defense:
Arizona LB, Scooby Wright III

Second Team Offense
ASU RB, DJ Foster

Second Team Specialists
Arizona P, Drew Riggleman
ASU PK, Zane Gonzalez

All-Confernce Honorable Mention:
Arizona WR Cayleb Jones, QB Anu Solomon, RB Nick Wilson
ASU LB DJ Calhoun, DB Lloyd Carrington, LB Salomo Fiso, LB Laiu Moeakiola, RB Demario Richard, DB Jordan Simone, OL Vi Teofillo, OL Christian Westerman

Can you see the difference?

I've said it before and I'll stand by my statement, Anu Solomon is a good QB with the chance to be great. If he continues to progress, I think he'll go down as the best QB in UofA Football History.

Scooby Wright is an animal, if he stays healthy I expect him to declare early and go higher in the draft than any player at ASU.

I'm not sold on Nick Wilson and think he's a product of RRs offense. It'll be very interesting seeing if he can carry the entire load next season.

Cayleb Jones put up good numbers. Could be better next season. Seems like a good player.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Yeah, keep the "what if" shit out of this. The T-Cup is littered with close games that could have gone either way if this or that happened, or if such-and-such players were healthy.

Last year you definitely didn't pick AZ to do what they did--or even close. So forgive me/us for not putting any stock into your predictions. AZ could do anything from like 1st to 5th in the South, and the same goes for ASU. Call whatever you want, but all you do is risk eating your words. You just never know what they, or any other team, is going to do.

As far as RR and Graham, your opinion is also just that. RR killed it at UWV "with no defense". I'm not sure if you are forgetting his back-to-back 11 win seasons there, or if those don't count as an indication for him being able to win a championship. He had 32 wins in his last 3 seasons there. He went to UM and saw that coaching at a top-tier program isn't always what it's cut out to be. I think he has settled in at AZ and is at least on his way toward making AZ an annual challenger in the P12 South.

Todd Graham hasn't won shit, except for the same P12 South title that RR did. I'm not saying that TG can't win a championship, but to say that he can and RR can't is just ludicrous. RR has a BCS top 5 finish. All he needs the defense to do is keep the opponent's offense from scoring more than his offense. And over his career, it has definitely worked out well for him.

I guess I just find it difficult to look at what AZ has been since Tomey left, and not think he's anything more than just a good coach who AZ should use as a stepping stone. I wont even go into the Mackovic era. But even looking at Stoops. His best stretch was 2 8-5 seasons. His record at AZ was 27-38. RR has only been here 3 years and has gone 8-5, 8-5, and 10-4. He's 26-14 compared to Stoops 27-38. He took over and our program was threatening to dip back down to shit, and he took it to AZ's best 3 year stretch since the 70s. And those are his first three years.

My point is that TG is 28-12. That's a two game difference, and TG took over a better program. I think the two coaches are pretty similar, with the exception that RR has a better history of coaching. But somehow TG can clearly win a championship and RR can't?

 

[WhoDatDevil]

You won't hear me saying RR is not a good coach because I think he is and your points are well taken. The reason I'm impartial to Graham however is because he places an emphasis on defense. Call me old school but I still believe defense is what wins championships. He'd likely be the first to admit, ASU's defense is not where they want it but,

 

[WhoDatDevil]

Statistically they've been one of the better attacking D's in the nation. Also, I believe beyond the X's and O's Graham is a better leader. He has a knack for hiring young up in coming coaches, he runs an extremely tight ship, he knows the identity of the program and allows that to sell itself. And because of that he's out recruited RR and has had more success in the draft.

 

[The Derski]

I didn't read a lot of what has been typed but UA and ASU will be good teams and will certainly contend for the south title. I truly believe Arizona has a 3 headed offensive monster on their roster. Solomon is a top notch QB, Nick Wilson is a stud at RB, the best we've had since Kadeem, and Cayleb Jones at WR could play himself into a first round draft pick imo. Also Scooby is hands down the defensive MVP of this conference and is already an all time UA great. For ASU Bercovici is probably one of the most underrated QBs in the nation, I actually thought he should have started over Kelly last year, and DJ Foster is one of the premier "do it all" athletes in the nation. I think both teams are set to contend for the foreseeable future. Rich Rod is a football mastermind and Graham is really creative on the sidelines himself and has shown he can get some good recruits. Honestly both these coaches are the perfect fit for their programs and I hope both stay for a long time.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Statistically they've been one of the better attacking D's in the nation. Also, I believe beyond the X's and O's Graham is a better leader. He has a knack for hiring young up in coming coaches, he runs an extremely tight ship, he knows the identity of the program and allows that to sell itself. And because of that he's out recruited RR and has had more success in the draft.

Statistically, they are kind of garbage on defense. They were 84th last year in yards allowed, 87th in yards allowed per game, 103rd in passing yards allowed, 106th in passing yards per game allowed, 51st in rushing yards allowed, 52nd in rushing yards per game allowed, 73rd in total points allowed, and 75th in points per game allowed. AZ was obviously pretty bad as well, but we own it. Both teams have much better defensive efficiency, sacks, and interception stats. Again, pretty comparable, and yet TG places an emphasis on defense?

Also, both coaches are only getting into their 4th year, so draft picks are either recruits from previous coaching (again, no surprise that RR is lacking because of Stoops), or because of JC transfers. Three of the four guys drafted from ASU this season were JC transfers. Take nothing away from TG's ability to get them, but it's definitely not to be counted with the same weight of a freshman recruit who has developed over 4 years.

My point is that when both coaches have only been around for 3 years, then draft picks are not as clean-cut as bringing a kid in as a freshman, developing him, and then reaping those benefits of a 4year kid getting drafted. So, "success in the draft" is a bit of a misnomer.

Look man, you can come on here and say how TG is more likely to win a championship, but the stats don't back that up in any way. You are basing it on a coaching style (which doesn't specifically mean anything), and very short term recruiting/draft (neither of which are solely the work of TG). Bottom line is that both coaches are great for their program and the conference. Both have won one of the most difficult divisions in CFB, and both have the potential to win the conference championship.

 

[Monte Carlo Wildcat]

Lets look at it this way. Here's a list of the Returning All-Conference Players:

First Team Defense:
Arizona LB, Scooby Wright III

Second Team Offense
ASU RB, DJ Foster

Second Team Specialists
Arizona P, Drew Riggleman
ASU PK, Zane Gonzalez

All-Confernce Honorable Mention:
Arizona WR Cayleb Jones, QB Anu Solomon, RB Nick Wilson
ASU LB DJ Calhoun, DB Lloyd Carrington, LB Salomo Fiso, LB Laiu Moeakiola, RB Demario Richard, DB Jordan Simone, OL Vi Teofillo, OL Christian Westerman

Can you see the difference?

I've said it before and I'll stand by my statement, Anu Solomon is a good QB with the chance to be great. If he continues to progress, I think he'll go down as the best QB in UofA Football History.

Scooby Wright is an animal, if he stays healthy I expect him to declare early and go higher in the draft than any player at ASU.

I'm not sold on Nick Wilson and think he's a product of RRs offense. It'll be very interesting seeing if he can carry the entire load next season.

Cayleb Jones put up good numbers. Could be better next season. Seems like a good player.

I've never truly bought into Pre-Season Anything! Pre-Season opinions are just that, opinions to get people talking. It's not to say that they hold no weight but too many people put too much emphasis on those opinions as if Its a crystal ball to predict the upcoming season. If I recall correctly last year, per ESPN, ASU had 3 pre-season All-Conference players (Strong, Foster, and Douglas) to Arizona's zero and look how that turned out for you.

 

[The Derski]

The south is going to be a hornets nest all season long. Really the only team without a realistic shot is Colorado.

The north is Oregons to win. Stanford may challenge and Cal could scare some people but it's no where near the competition of the south.

 

[The Derski]

There's a marathon of UA games on Pac networks right now if you're interested. Just finished the zaga game, now it's showing the Utah game in Utah. After that it's the UCLA game in the pac tourney.

 

[BearDownUA]

Congrats to Stanley and Rondae on their 1st round selections. Extemely happy for both of them.

Was really hoping someone would scoop up Ashley at the end, that was a bummer to see him passed on

 

[gordontrue]

 

[The Derski]

So why did Ashley leave early?? I really don't get it if this is what was expected anyway... I mean this wasn't even a deep class and he still didn't get drafted.. What was his goal? Now he even seems like he's gonna be a borderline d-leaguer. Boggles my mind.

 

[gordontrue]

So why did Ashley leave early?? I really don't get it if this is what was expected anyway... I mean this wasn't even a deep class and he still didn't get drafted.. What was his goal? Now he even seems like he's gonna be a borderline d-leaguer. Boggles my mind.

At the time he declared he was projected by most sites as going 35-40. He slowly and quietly slid down the board the last few months... but most people still had him drafted.


I've noticed a trend over the last couple years that is kind of annoying, yet understandable. Teams really like to go with the draft-and-stash players in the 2nd round. Players like Ashley... (US players with 2nd round talent ready to play right away) ... teams can bring into summer league and get them on a non-guaranteed contract anyway without having to draft their rights. Securing the rights of these foreign players who are still a few years away from playing is worth more because... if that player turns out to be a great prospect in a couple years... they have the rights to get them.


The 2nd round is feeling more and more worthless every year.

 

[gordontrue]

TJ signed a partially-guaranteed deal with the 76ers

According to his agent, he could've been drafted... had he agreed to be a draft-and-stash player... who could only play in the d-league next season... but he didn't want to do that.

His contract includes 6-figure salary even if he doesn't end up making the team.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Unless BA ends up in the league, this will give Miller some leverage when he's talking to kids who want to leave early because they think they'll get picked up in the 2nd round.

The whole appeal to leaving early is the whole "what if I get injured if I stay?" argument. The "what if you don't get drafted" argument is much more realistic.