Offseason Discussion-2013 Edition

[Mays-Fan]

He hit .255 with a .320 obp last year. He is garbage as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah but in 2011 he had a better year than Pagan in 2012.

SV 2011: .279/.355/.491/.847....... 130 OPS+, 5.0 oWAR, 0.5 dWAR

AP 2012: .288/.338/.440/.778....... 121 OPS+, 4.5 oWAR, -0.3 dWAR

Shane Victorino Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Angel Pagan Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Just sayin'.

 

[jingo]

He hit .255 with a .320 obp last year. He is garbage as far as I'm concerned.

Before I agree that he is garbage, I would want to know what his numbers might be playing half his games in SF. Does he have the type of offensive game that plays well in our park? Defensively, how good or bad will he be with the Giants?

At some point someone always interjects reality into the discussion of building a World Series team, whether it involves this offseason or building for the future (long-term extensions of key players). Finances is/are one of the core reality checks. Which players do the Giants think they can afford in 2013 and beyond?

If Pagan signs elsewhere, who is his replacement in 2013? 2014? Who is in LF in 2013? 2014? Whatever the answers are, will the Giants be better or worse (on paper)?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Before I agree that he is garbage, I would want to know what his numbers might be playing half his games in SF. Does he have the type of offensive game that plays well in our park? Defensively, how good or bad will he be with the Giants?

At some point someone always interjects reality into the discussion of building a World Series team, whether it involves this offseason or building for the future (long-term extensions of key players). Finances is/are one of the core reality checks. Which players do the Giants think they can afford in 2013 and beyond?

If Pagan signs elsewhere, who is his replacement in 2013? 2014? Who is in LF in 2013? 2014? Whatever the answers are, will the Giants be better or worse (on paper)?

I see Victorino as similar to Pagan, with maybe a litttle more pop. But like Pagan, he hits a ton of doubles and triples, too. He may be a shade better defensively.

I would also add that maybe those who dislike Mr. Victorino do so because they subconsciously would rather he be on OUR team. Just putting that out there.

If we don't sign Pagan, I think I'd rather see us sign Victorino for say 3/24 than Swisher at 3/42. But I have no real basis for either of those estimates. SV may not come that cheap.

 

[MarcoPolo]

notable non-tenders (for Giants fans) :
Wilson
Torres
Schierholtz

Also, the BoSox non-tendered RHRP Scott Atchison. I'd be knocking on his agent's door, as he had a good 2011 and a fantastic 2012 - and he's never made much more than league minimum. I'd rather have Atchison in middle relief than Edlefsen or Hensley or Loux.

The Orioles non-tendered RHRP Stuart Pomeranz. I'd try and sign him to a minor league contract to see if last year was a fluke or he finally figured something out. If he HAS become a decent reliever, he'd be captive for 5 more years (once added to the 40-man).

 

[Mays-Fan]

notable non-tenders (for Giants fans) :
Wilson
Torres
Schierholtz

Also, the BoSox non-tendered RHRP Scott Atchison. I'd be knocking on his agent's door, as he had a good 2011 and a fantastic 2012 - and he's never made much more than league minimum. I'd rather have Atchison in middle relief than Edlefsen or Hensley or Loux.

The Orioles non-tendered RHRP Stuart Pomeranz. I'd try and sign him to a minor league contract to see if last year was a fluke or he finally figured something out. If he HAS become a decent reliever, he'd be captive for 5 more years (once added to the 40-man).

I'd be interested in Nate as an OF sub if the feeling was mutual. Signing him might actually give us some leverage with Pence/Pagan.

Atchison looks like a safe pickup for less than $1.0 mill, maybe even 2 yrs / $1.5 mill. He is 36 years old. Depends if Hembree / Bochy / Runzler are ready for that last BP slot or two.

 

[tzill]

He hit .255 with a .320 obp last year. He is garbage as far as I'm concerned.

OPS+ the last three: 101, 130, 91
WAR the last three: 2.8, 5.2, 2.4

Not garbage. He's 31 and still an above average defender. A complete fucking tool, but not garbage.

 

[tzill]

notable non-tenders (for Giants fans) :
Wilson
Torres
Schierholtz

Also, the BoSox non-tendered RHRP Scott Atchison. I'd be knocking on his agent's door, as he had a good 2011 and a fantastic 2012 - and he's never made much more than league minimum. I'd rather have Atchison in middle relief than Edlefsen or Hensley or Loux.

The Orioles non-tendered RHRP Stuart Pomeranz. I'd try and sign him to a minor league contract to see if last year was a fluke or he finally figured something out. If he HAS become a decent reliever, he'd be captive for 5 more years (once added to the 40-man).

Agree completely on Atchison. He could be our 2013 Billy Weed.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Yeah but in 2011 he had a better year than Pagan in 2012.

SV 2011: .279/.355/.491/.847....... 130 OPS+, 5.0 oWAR, 0.5 dWAR

AP 2012: .288/.338/.440/.778....... 121 OPS+, 4.5 oWAR, -0.3 dWAR

Shane Victorino Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Angel Pagan Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Just sayin'.

Before I agree that he is garbage, I would want to know what his numbers might be playing half his games in SF. Does he have the type of offensive game that plays well in our park? Defensively, how good or bad will he be with the Giants?

At some point someone always interjects reality into the discussion of building a World Series team, whether it involves this offseason or building for the future (long-term extensions of key players). Finances is/are one of the core reality checks. Which players do the Giants think they can afford in 2013 and beyond?

If Pagan signs elsewhere, who is his replacement in 2013? 2014? Who is in LF in 2013? 2014? Whatever the answers are, will the Giants be better or worse (on paper)?

OPS+ the last three: 101, 130, 91
WAR the last three: 2.8, 5.2, 2.4

Not garbage. He's 31 and still an above average defender. A complete fucking tool, but not garbage.

Who said he was garbage? that guy must be an idiot! Somehow I thought he'd been basically .255 .320 for a while now... Maybe like tzill said I let his complete fuckin toolidge cloud my memory. Also he was just a dodger... Though he sucked donkey for them, which in retrospect I should appreciate.

Still don't like him don't want him, but he would be a good replacement for Pagan if Sabean can't resign him.

 

[TKellion]

1. Blanco CF
2. Belt 1B
3. Posey C
4. Sandoval 3B
5. Pence RF
6. Keischnick/Peguero LF
7. Arias/Noonan 2B
8. Crawford SS
Rather give rookies a shot than overpay for two guys that put up carrer years at the right time.Neither Pagan or Scutaro are worth what they will end up getting paid.The rookies can be replaced at the trade deadline if needed.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I can understand the fiscal point of view (I take that POV often) - but that lineup has the possibility of being half suck.

On the plus side, the defense would be pretty damn awesome.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would normally take the position "if they are asking for too much money/years, then wait until January and see how the market develops, and offer them a one-year 'pump up your stats and go again next season' cheap(er) one-year contract." But I don't think that would work in this case. AT&T is not the place for LHB (or switch hitters, who would be batting mostly LH) to pump up the stats. And neither Swisher nor Pagan NEED to "pump up the stats" - they just want to get the longest guaranteed contract. And I somehow doubt that SV would come to AT&T for one year (if at all).

 

[gp956]

I can understand the fiscal point of view (I take that POV often) - but that lineup has the possibility of being half suck.

On the plus side, the defense would be pretty damn awesome.

Really? With my bots at the ready, I see six all-stars.

 

[gp956]

Report: Dodgers not interested in Wilson

Brian Wilson might want to pitch for the Dodgers, but it appears the interest isn't mutual.

The colorful and magnificently bearded closer wasn't tendered a contract for next season by the San Francisco Giants, making him a free agent. Wilson lives in Los Angeles in the off-season, and the Dodgers are among the teams with which he would like to sign, according to multiple reports.

Though the Dodgers won't publicly comment on free agents, people familiar with team officials' thinking say they aren't looking to sign Wilson.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

OT but Indians SS Asdrubal Cabrera has a 6 team no trade list. We are on it haha

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Depending on price how do you guys feel about Brian Matsuz. Obviously we would have to trade for him, so just trying to speculate what his cost would be and in this hypothetical what about him as a No.6

 

[MarcoPolo]

I can understand the fiscal point of view (I take that POV often) - but that lineup has the possibility of being half suck.

On the plus side, the defense would be pretty damn awesome.

Really? With my bots at the ready, I see six all-stars.

Blanco, Keischnick/Peguero, Arias/Noonan, Crawford. Yup, as I said, that lineup has the possibility of being half suck. Wasn't it clear I was talking about offense?

 

[calsnowskier]

Blanco, Keischnick/Peguero, Arias/Noonan, Crawford. Yup, as I said, that lineup has the possibility of being half suck. Wasn't it clear I was talking about offense?

To be fair, he never said "deserved all-stars".

Whomever the Giants trot out there in '13 will get a shit-load of all-star votes (due to the use of "bots")....

 

[ChinMusic]

Ken Rosenthal reporting via Twitter the Giants are close to re-signing Pagan.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

It is a done deal

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

4 years 40M.

Victorino wanted 3 years 30M