Offseason Discussion-2013 Edition

[gp956]

That IS mojo you just can't fuck with...

Bottom line, I don't want to pay 2+ years @ 8M per for league average without some good chance of a difference making upside surprise - a Burrell like surprise comes to mind, and we got him for free. Age, peak ability, ball park/division opponent adjustments, and the douche factor make for a combination of factors I would not take a chance on.

Though, if we're talking a one year contract or deep discount, I'd feel better about it.

 

[SFAnthem]

Bottom line, I don't want to pay 2+ years @ 8M per for league average without some good chance of a difference making upside surprise - a Burrell like surprise comes to mind, and we got him for free. Age, peak ability, ball park/division opponent adjustments, and the douche factor make for a combination of factors I would not take a chance on.

Though, if we're talking a one year contract or deep discount, I'd feel better about it.

No to Victorino

Smells like a Tejada move..

 

[tzill]

JC, we hardly knew ye:

Cardinals To Sign Justin Christian: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

[iHATEdodgers]

It is a huge risk. We have a winning formula with Bum paying a key part. dealing him, even for Stanton, would affect every part of the team. Chemistry, pitching, bullpen...

The team has had success by going pitching first. A trade like that would change that focus. Why mess with it?

I second this wholeheartedly. Plus Bum is a STUD in the playoffs. There's no statistic for that, he brings waaay more to the table than 12% over the league average or whatever.

The formula is Top 5 pitching and average offense. I dont think we do strengthen ourselves by weakening our gratest strength. It's working don't eff it up!

 

[filosofy29]

I second this wholeheartedly. Plus Bum is a STUD in the playoffs. There's no statistic for that, he brings waaay more to the table than 12% over the league average or whatever.

The formula is Top 5 pitching and average offense. I dont think we do strengthen ourselves by weakening our gratest strength. It's working don't eff it up!

Third(ed???). I'm not against the trade at all, but I just don't see why either team would make it. The Giants pitchers have pitched a shit load of innings over the last 3 years, Zito had his first "good" year so who knows how he'll be next year, Timmay is a complete question mark as well. If we trade Bum, we have 2/5ths of a rotation that we can count on (with nobody in the immediate wings and no FA to count on). I'm a huge Stanton fan (the guy is a fucking beast) and I think that it would be a good trade for both teams.....that said, it would also (in my humble opinion) be a good non-trade for both teams.

Obviously there are some variables here that none of us will know.....has MadBum really "fixed" the issue(s) he had at the end of the season? Was it purely mechanical? Was it a tired arm that can get better? How bad was Stanton's knee surgery? How is he in the clubhouse? Etc.

I wouldn't be happy or sad if Bum was traded for Stanton, but I wouldn't be happy or sad if the Giants nixed the deal either. Obviously, there are always risks involved with trades and signings (even apparent "no-brainers"), and also with standing pat (not getting better because you want to take the "safe" route). That said, I honestly think I'd be ok with either scenario. Like most have said so far though, I highly doubt this topic will ever be broached by neither the Marlins nor the Giants.

 

[SFAnthem]

Third(ed???). I'm not against the trade at all, but I just don't see why either team would make it. The Giants pitchers have pitched a shit load of innings over the last 3 years, Zito had his first "good" year so who knows how he'll be next year, Timmay is a complete question mark as well. If we trade Bum, we have 2/5ths of a rotation that we can count on (with nobody in the immediate wings and no FA to count on). I'm a huge Stanton fan (the guy is a fucking beast) and I think that it would be a good trade for both teams.....that said, it would also (in my humble opinion) be a good non-trade for both teams.

Obviously there are some variables here that none of us will know.....has MadBum really "fixed" the issue(s) he had at the end of the season? Was it purely mechanical? Was it a tired arm that can get better? How bad was Stanton's knee surgery? How is he in the clubhouse? Etc.

I wouldn't be happy or sad if Bum was traded for Stanton, but I wouldn't be happy or sad if the Giants nixed the deal either. Obviously, there are always risks involved with trades and signings (even apparent "no-brainers"), and also with standing pat (not getting better because you want to take the "safe" route). That said, I honestly think I'd be ok with either scenario. Like most have said so far though, I highly doubt this topic will ever be broached by neither the Marlins nor the Giants.

Fourth'ded

In my mind, MadBum was right up there in Ace considerations in parts of the season. The beauty of having a strong rotation is that there were no prolonged slumps. Zito shocked the crap out of me, being a dependable starter (best 5th in the league? lol)
Moving Bum means you're left with Cain, who looked like he was dealing with tried arm at the end of the year and 2 possibly 3 question marks in Timmy, Zeets, and Vogelsong (who knows how long he can keep this up)

The strong rotation makes the bullpen better, which makes the team better.

Only way I would consider it is if we had 2 high upside guys ready to take over.

 

[tzill]

Fourth'ded

In my mind, MadBum was right up there in Ace considerations in parts of the season. The beauty of having a strong rotation is that there were no prolonged slumps. Zito shocked the crap out of me, being a dependable starter (best 5th in the league? lol)
Moving Bum means you're left with Cain, who looked like he was dealing with tried arm at the end of the year and 2 possibly 3 question marks in Timmy, Zeets, and Vogelsong (who knows how long he can keep this up)

The strong rotation makes the bullpen better, which makes the team better.

Only way I would consider it is if we had 2 high upside guys ready to take over.

The minors are pretty stocked with SP talent, all coming up in the next three years. We have nothing even close to a Stanton in the farm system. He's a generational talent. I doubt either team would consider the trade, but I'd make it.

 

[calsnowskier]

The minors are pretty stocked with SP talent, all coming up in the next three years. We have nothing even close to a Stanton in the farm system. He's a generational talent. I doubt either team would consider the trade, but I'd make it.

If this trade were made, you would not like games. There would be many mor 6-5 games than 3-1 games.

NOT tz approved!

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Fourth'ded

In my mind, MadBum was right up there in Ace considerations in parts of the season. The beauty of having a strong rotation is that there were no prolonged slumps. Zito shocked the crap out of me, being a dependable starter (best 5th in the league? lol)
Moving Bum means you're left with Cain, who looked like he was dealing with tried arm at the end of the year and 2 possibly 3 question marks in Timmy, Zeets, and Vogelsong (who knows how long he can keep this up)

The strong rotation makes the bullpen better, which makes the team better.

Only way I would consider it is if we had 2 high upside guys ready to take over.

Fifth'ded

I do love Stanton but I'd rather have Bumgarner. 22 years old and already one of the Top 20 in the game. He will be an elite top of the line ace even when he is 24. Stanton is great but in our ballpark we need more pitching then power

 

[ColinCoby]

Doyers apparently the favorites to sign Greinke.

Those bastards have a credit card with no limit.

 

[tzill]

If this trade were made, you would not like games. There would be many mor 6-5 games than 3-1 games.

NOT tz approved!

I'm not so convinced of that. I think there would be a lot of 4-3 games. And we'd win 75% of those games.

 

[tzill]

Fifth'ded

I do love Stanton but I'd rather have Bumgarner. 22 years old and already one of the Top 20 in the game. He will be an elite top of the line ace even when he is 24. Stanton is great but in our ballpark we need more pitching then power

Ummm...no. 46th in the majors last year in ERA+. Only one Giant in the top 20 (Cain, 16). 47 last year (Tron 16, Timmy 18, Cain 25). In 2010, he would've been 20th if he had enough innings to qualify (Chez 22, Cain 25, Timmy 36)

He's a phenomenal talent, no doubt. And I love him and would miss him if he were traded.

But Stanton is better.

 

[filosofy29]

Doyers apparently the favorites to sign Greinke.

Those bastards have a credit card with no limit.

With all this Stanton-Bum debate, we've lost sight of what's important.....fuck the Dodgers!!! Well done CC!

 

[iHATEdodgers]

With all this Stanton-Bum debate, we've lost sight of what's important.....fuck the Dodgers!!! Well done CC!

I fuckin HATE those bastages! Do they go bankrupt or start winning first?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Keeping Bum got seconded, thirded, fourth'ded and fifth'ded. I think we have a winner!

 

[xxERICSMITHXX]

He's going to be VERY EXPENSIVE and want LOTS OF YEARS.

Pass....

His skill set doesn't age as well either.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

If the Dodgers were to sign Greinke for 18M_+
Exactly what would their salary be. Not that it matters since they got the huge tv deal

 

[Stokes1931]

If the Dodgers were to sign Greinke for 18M_+
Exactly what would their salary be. Not that it matters since they got the huge tv deal

I forget which site has the team salary spreadsheets, but this site has the top ten Dodgers making a whopping $151,464,000 in 2013. That is a whole lotta samoleans for a non-playoff team.

2013 Los Angeles Dodgers Top Total Salaries

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/09/2013-payroll-commitments.html

mlbtraderumors puts the Dogs' 2013 salaries at $193.8MM.

If they sign Grienke, that goes over $200 million.

edit: found them-

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=127

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tBbMgiEHXYczpjt0I7dajQQ&output=html

This shows $198,314,286 for only 18 players. It also includes bonus/deferred money due to Tony Gwynn Jr. ($1.15 million), ManRam ($8,333,333), and Andruw Jones ($3.2 million). That's almost one RoRo in dead money.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I forget which site has the team salary spreadsheets, but this site has the top ten Dodgers making a whopping $151,464,000 in 2013. That is a whole lotta samoleans for a non-playoff team.

2013 Los Angeles Dodgers Top Total Salaries

2013 Payroll Commitments: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

mlbtraderumors puts the Dogs' 2013 salaries at $193.8MM.

If they sign Grienke, that goes over $200 million.

Los Angeles Dodgers | Cot's Baseball Contracts

alright i thought it would be over 200. Then there is the tax, which could add 50M

 

[Stokes1931]

If COTS is correct, the Astros only have one player they owe money to in 2013, and that player (Wandy) was traded. All the others are rookies, and under team control. The Stros may not have a payroll higher than $10 million this year, or a half a season of any Dodger starting player.