OFFICIAL OFF SEASON THREAD ( 2017 )

[saddles]

That is a poor way of running a team. Every year sign players to one year deals so we can unload them at the deadline. And you plan every year on unloading Choo and you have added Odor and several others to your list. How do we put together a good team over the years if follow that game plan

Trading Choo and trading Odor are for completely different reasons. Choo is a DH who gets hurt a lot. Odor is a player with some skills that could get you a good return and we have a guy in Profar who can take his place and eventually hit for a better average with much better plate discipline. You gain defensively with Profar also. Choo would be a dump to free up a few million to spend elsewhere. Odo brings back some talent and allows you to plug in Profar in his place.

 

[donaldson79]

Where did you get the "every year" part?

I wondered this myself.

Exactly how many one year guys have we had on average over the past 4/5 seasons anyway? And is a guy playing his final year of a contract, i.e. Moreland counted?

Tell ya one thing, I'd signed MM back for the one year at $5.5 mil and counted my blessings. This would put to bed the Gallo problem of rushing him this year, or watching flounder, at least initially.

 

[saddles]

I wondered this myself.

Exactly how many one year guys have we had on average over the past 4/5 seasons anyway? And is a guy playing his final year of a contract, i.e. Moreland counted?

Tell ya one thing, I'd signed MM back for the one year at $5.5 mil and counted my blessings. This would put to bed the Gallo problem of rushing him this year, or watching flounder, at least initially.

I think even without MM or Napoli that Gallo is the 4th option right now behind Profar, Rua and Hamilton. I don't expect to see Joey make the team out of ST or even be called up anytime before late July at the earliest. I guess if Beltre goes down he could come up before then, but one of those other guys would probably have to be hurt at the same time. At least that is how I see it.

 

[donaldson79]

I guess if Beltre goes down he could come up before then, but one of those other guys would probably have to be hurt at the same time. At least that is how I see it.

I'd expect to see Profar get the move if this happened.

 

[DT LUNA]

That is a poor way of running a team. Every year sign players to one year deals so we can unload them at the deadline. And you plan every year on unloading Choo and you have added Odor and several others to your list. How do we put together a good team over the years if follow that game plan

Sometimes a one year contract is like a band aid. It stops the bleeding till you see a doctor.

 

[scotsman1948]

Sometimes a one year contract is like a band aid. It stops the bleeding till you see a doctor.

i agree but his suggestion was to fill our needs with 1 year deals trade them off plus he has suggested unloading Hamels, Darvish, Choo, etc. I just don't see that as having a positive impact on the team as a whole because trading proven talent(less Choo) for unproven prospects that may or may not ever make the mlb roster doesn't always help

 

[DT LUNA]

i agree but his suggestion was to fill our needs with 1 year deals trade them off plus he has suggested unloading Hamels, Darvish, Choo, etc. I just don't see that as having a positive impact on the team as a whole because trading proven talent(less Choo) for unproven prospects that may or may not ever make the mlb roster doesn't always help

I bet you didn't agree with the famous trade w/Atlanta. It's not bad trading any of these guys if the return is worth it and that is what he is leading to.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

I know it was a bummer that a few of us didn't get to go this year when Yu was there, but damn if I don't love this picture.

 

[donaldson79]

i agree but his suggestion was to fill our needs with 1 year deals trade them off plus he has suggested unloading Hamels, Darvish, Choo, etc. I just don't see that as having a positive impact on the team as a whole because trading proven talent(less Choo) for unproven prospects that may or may not ever make the mlb roster doesn't always help

Pretty sure it wasn't a collective situation like you're making it appear to be.

And I'm one of the biggest supporters of moving Darvish if we don't think we can sign him long term. That to me is an absolute no-brainer and I will be more than disappointed if he leaves after this season and we've got diddly-squat to show for it.

Everyone seems to be in favor of moving Choo and I do understand. But I just don't see this happening without it being a total salary dump and exactly how do you feel about eating, what is it? about $80 mil?

 

[saddles]

i agree but his suggestion was to fill our needs with 1 year deals trade them off plus he has suggested unloading Hamels, Darvish, Choo, etc. I just don't see that as having a positive impact on the team as a whole because trading proven talent(less Choo) for unproven prospects that may or may not ever make the mlb roster doesn't always help

I want to lock Darvish up long term. I have been saying that since well before he got hurt. I have always felt that way.

Hamels scares me because he slipped some in the last third of last season and he never had a good ERA against AL teams before he got here. If a team thinks he is still one of the best pitchers in baseball and they want to overwhelm us I would say yes. I don't see that happening, but if it did I would jump on it. It wouldn't surprise me if Hamels had an ERA next year north of 3.50. It would not be something I would expect the team to pursue.

Choo would be strictly a salary dump so we can afford something else.

The filling our roster with one year players who would be good enough to bring something back at the deadline is better than filling it with the likes of Rosales, Stubbs, and Hoying. Why fill with scrubbs when you can pay more for a half season and get something for them. Like we did the year we acquired David Murphy for Eric Gagne who was on a one year deal. Look how much better off we would have been had we traded away Desmond at the deadline last year. We would have still won as many playoff games and we would have some guys in our system to show for it. Now that is hindsight so I am not blaming JD, but it does show that that tact can work. You can bring in a Gagne or a Desmond instead of a Hoying or a Stubbs and be better off both while they are here and when they are gone.

 

[saddles]

Pretty sure it wasn't a collective situation like you're making it appear to be.

And I'm one of the biggest supporters of moving Darvish if we don't think we can sign him long term. That to me is an absolute no-brainer and I will be more than disappointed if he leaves after this season and we've got diddly-squat to show for it.

Everyone seems to be in favor of moving Choo and I do understand. But I just don't see this happening without it being a total salary dump and exactly how do you feel about eating, what is it? about $80 mil?

If Choo stayed relatively healthy in 2017 through most of July and we are not in the race at the deadline do you think some team would want him if we offered to pay half of his remaining salary? That would make it a gamble on each side. We would be gambling that his good health was temporary and the other team would gamble that his past health issues were a fluke.

 

[WilltheThrill]

So tell us what you would do this year, Scotty. Specifically. Don't speak in generalities. You're the GM. Go.

I know you weren't addressing me, but I'll take a crack at it. A few ideas...

1) Give Napoli the extra year he wants and sign him to play 1B for the next 2-3 years and hit 20-30 HR while bringing back a fan and clubhouse favorite. I say this because I have zero hope for Joey Gallo and Ryan Rua. I hope I'm wrong on that opinion.

2) Ask the Pirates what it would cost to get Tony Watson. He would solidify the back end of the bullpen and replace Diekman (an improvement, actually).

3) See if the Cardinals are willing to part with Michael Wacha. He had a down year last year, but still has #2 potential. He's the kind of elite young arm who MIGHT be gettable due to one bad year. He would cost a lot... Odor or Profar plus other pieces, but it would give them a foundation piece to their rotation (provided he doesn't continue to decline).

4) If they say no, see what the Reds want for DeSclafani and Hamilton. There's a solid #3 starter and a 60 SB lead off hitter with elite CF range in one trade. It would require a huge package to make it happen, Mendez/Profar/Gallo/Jeffress and 1-2 other higher-end pieces most likely.

5) If #3 and #4 prove to be impossible, see what the Brewers want for Junior Guerra. He developed a nasty cutter late in his career and would slot in very nicely as our #3. He had awesome numbers last year and isn't reportedly in the Brewers' long-term plans due to his age.

6) If Billy Hamilton is a no-go, see what the Yankees would want for Brett Gardner. He would give us speed and range and force Choo to DH where he belongs.

There's 6 specific moves I'd try to make... not all 6, obviously, and some are probably a bit on the unlikely side. But ultimately I want Napoli, one more OF bat to force Choo into the DH role, a young #3 starter with upside, and one last bullpen piece. That's my pipe dream scenario.

Thoughts?

 

[Bmurph]

I was hoping maybe they would spend if they thought they would be able to not have to pay much more than half of the salary if they fell out of contention. You could be right though.

If they are ever able to unload Choo they would have to eat half of his salary.

Choo is likely a sunk cost, much the same way most of what Prince is owed is a sunk cost

 

[romeo212000]

I know you weren't addressing me, but I'll take a crack at it. A few ideas...

1) Give Napoli the extra year he wants and sign him to play 1B for the next 2-3 years and hit 20-30 HR while bringing back a fan and clubhouse favorite. I say this because I have zero hope for Joey Gallo and Ryan Rua. I hope I'm wrong on that opinion.

2) Ask the Pirates what it would cost to get Tony Watson. He would solidify the back end of the bullpen and replace Diekman (an improvement, actually).

3) See if the Cardinals are willing to part with Michael Wacha. He had a down year last year, but still has #2 potential. He's the kind of elite young arm who MIGHT be gettable due to one bad year. He would cost a lot... Odor or Profar plus other pieces, but it would give them a foundation piece to their rotation (provided he doesn't continue to decline).

4) If they say no, see what the Reds want for DeSclafani and Hamilton. There's a solid #3 starter and a 60 SB lead off hitter with elite CF range in one trade. It would require a huge package to make it happen, Mendez/Profar/Gallo/Jeffress and 1-2 other higher-end pieces most likely.

5) If #3 and #4 prove to be impossible, see what the Brewers want for Junior Guerra. He developed a nasty cutter late in his career and would slot in very nicely as our #3. He had awesome numbers last year and isn't reportedly in the Brewers' long-term plans due to his age.

6) If Billy Hamilton is a no-go, see what the Yankees would want for Brett Gardner. He would give us speed and range and force Choo to DH where he belongs.

There's 6 specific moves I'd try to make... not all 6, obviously, and some are probably a bit on the unlikely side. But ultimately I want Napoli, one more OF bat to force Choo into the DH role, a young #3 starter with upside, and one last bullpen piece. That's my pipe dream scenario.

Thoughts?

Well thought out and reasonable. I'll have to respond more specifically when I have time, but this at least adds something of value to the discussion rather than incessantly bitching.

 

[Duane1952]

RIP Yordano Ventura. Gone to soon.

 

[donaldson79]

RIP Yordano Ventura. Gone to soon.

Royals RHP Ventura, 25, killed in car crash

If I ever win the lottery, I'd still never step foot in the Dominican Republic.

 

[donaldson79]

Thoughts?

Good thoughts, other than I still have optimism for Rua. And I hope I'm right on that. ha

And like romeo said, "it beats the hell outta bitching at every turn".

 

[donaldson79]

If Choo stayed relatively healthy in 2017 through most of July and we are not in the race at the deadline do you think some team would want him if we offered to pay half of his remaining salary? That would make it a gamble on each side. We would be gambling that his good health was temporary and the other team would gamble that his past health issues were a fluke.

Of course it's all dependent on how well Choo is doing. If he's doing very good, like .285, 14 HR and 40ish RBI, then I can see a desire on another teams part. But he's still a long term question mark for any team with his injury history.

Since he's on the books for about $75 mil over 4 years, that's still a pretty big gamble for a suitor. But 1/2 would be semi reasonable at this point in time in our great game. It would put us both on the hook for a little over $9 mil per for 4 years.

The trickier part may be what we want to get back.

 

[saddles]

Of course it's all dependent on how well Choo is doing. If he's doing very good, like .285, 14 HR and 40ish RBI, then I can see a desire on another teams part. But he's still a long term question mark for any team with his injury history.

Since he's on the books for about $75 mil over 4 years, that's still a pretty big gamble for a suitor. But 1/2 would be semi reasonable at this point in time in our great game. It would put us both on the hook for a little over $9 mil per for 4 years.

The trickier part may be what we want to get back.

If we got much of anything back it would be gravy to me. Maybe a younger prospect that is a few years off. As long as we don't have to include an extra prospect in a trade just to get someone to take him like we did with Harrison. lol

 

[Bmurph]

Thoughts and prayers for the families and friends of Yordano Ventura and Andy Marte

RIP men