Official Mariners arm-chair GM offseason thread

[seahawksfan234]

Am I the only one who wants to trade Felix? Been saying it for almost 2 years and it looks even more like we should. Although I don't see us getting much for him at this point

Not anymore.

Issue is we'd essentially have to pay someone to take him off our hands with how bad his contract is relative to his health and performance. He also has a no trade clause.

No point trading him if we still have to pay his entire salary. He has 2 years $54m left on his contract or something. If he agreed to a trade, I'd be willing for the Mariners to pay half of it in exchange for a pack of peanuts. But it's unlikely any GM is dumb enough to take him on. And I'm unsure if he would waive his no trade clause.

 

[Jamo]

Not anymore.

Issue is we'd essentially have to pay someone to take him off our hands with how bad his contract is relative to his health and performance. He also has a no trade clause.

No point trading him if we still have to pay his entire salary. He has 2 years $54m left on his contract or something. If he agreed to a trade, I'd be willing for the Mariners to pay half of it in exchange for a pack of peanuts. But it's unlikely any GM is dumb enough to take him on. And I'm unsure if he would waive his no trade clause.

One of those things I hate being right about. I personally wanted him gone after last season when he still had some value. Now, like you said, no GM will be interested in bearing that cross. Oh well, typical lack of foresight on the part of our front office.

 

[seahawksfan234]

One of those things I hate being right about. I personally wanted him gone after last season when he still had some value. Now, like you said, no GM will be interested in bearing that cross. Oh well, typical lack of foresight on the part of our front office.

There is the slight possibility someone might propose an offer to the Mariners front office that splits the remainder of his contract down the middle. Something like the M's paying half this season and next season, or the entire contract this season then nothing next season. In return whoever receives him would be getting a better version of Gallardo, with injury issues, but star power, at around the same price.

Another obstacle is getting him to waive the no trade clause, why would he? He clearly likes it here. He has lived here his entire adult life and has a family here. So I don't think he's going to go anywhere, even if the Mariners receive a fair deal.

 

[Jamo]

There is the slight possibility someone might propose an offer to the Mariners front office that splits the remainder of his contract down the middle. Something like the M's paying half this season and next season, or the entire contract this season then nothing next season. In return whoever receives him would be getting a better version of Gallardo, with injury issues, but star power, at around the same price.

Another obstacle is getting him to waive the no trade clause, why would he? He clearly likes it here. He has lived here his entire adult life and has a family here. So I don't think he's going to go anywhere, even if the Mariners receive a fair deal.

Well he's a world series caliber pitcher so maybe if a tier 1 team approaches us with a deal and he thinks he can get a ring he might waive it. Meaningless hypothetical at this point though

 

[seahawksfan234]

Well he's a world series caliber pitcher so maybe if a tier 1 team approaches us with a deal and he thinks he can get a ring he might waive it. Meaningless hypothetical at this point though

He used to be a World Series caliber pitcher. I don't think he has the control, velocity, movement, health or desire to play at a high level anymore. His conditioning seemed to deteriorate significantly this year. He also just doesn't seem to care as much on the mound anymore. This is a guy who would get fired up when he was playing well, not he just doesn't seem to display that passion anymore.

I could be wrong, but I think his best days are far behind him.

 

[Jamo]

He used to be a World Series caliber pitcher. I don't think he has the control, velocity, movement, health or desire to play at a high level anymore. His conditioning seemed to deteriorate significantly this year. He also just doesn't seem to care as much on the mound anymore. This is a guy who would get fired up when he was playing well, not he just doesn't seem to display that passion anymore.

I could be wrong, but I think his best days are far behind him.

Should have used past tense. All the above is true which is why we oughta trade him

 

[wazzu31]

Chris Taylor just hit a home run in the first inning of the world series. He and Brandon Morrow have been quite successful with the Dodgers.

I liked this post but also wanted to face palm Bavasi, Jack and Jerry at the same time.

 

[wazzu31]

There are two massive problems with Felix, A. His contract, no team is going to trade a nickel for him unless the Mariners eat the contract. Unfortunately they are stuck paying a boat load for a 4th or 5th starter.

B. Is Felix is so close with Cano and Cruz. Had Felix not been so close with Cano and Cruz I think those two would've tuned out Servais last year and the team would've nose dived. They need value to deal Cruz and really can't afford Cano pulling a Randy Johnson.

I personally love Felix because he shut up the stuck up douchey NY and Boston fans by resigning with Seattle but is also a lesson in giving out big contracts that hamstring an organization who isn't going anywhere. He should've been dealt years ago, which is why I think Seager is as good as gone this offseason.

 

[seahawksfan234]

There are two massive problems with Felix, A. His contract, no team is going to trade a nickel for him unless the Mariners eat the contract. Unfortunately they are stuck paying a boat load for a 4th or 5th starter.

B. Is Felix is so close with Cano and Cruz. Had Felix not been so close with Cano and Cruz I think those two would've tuned out Servais last year and the team would've nose dived. They need value to deal Cruz and really can't afford Cano pulling a Randy Johnson.

I personally love Felix because he shut up the stuck up douchey NY and Boston fans by resigning with Seattle but is also a lesson in giving out big contracts that hamstring an organization who isn't going anywhere. He should've been dealt years ago, which is why I think Seager is as good as gone this offseason.

Issue with dealing Seager is that I believe JD believes this is a contending roster next year, as misled as that belief may be, it appears to be his perspective. If the Mariners trade Seager, then we have holes at 3B and 1B, with absolutely zero in-house replacements for either. I initially started arguing that Seager will be on the team next year until I realized as of right now he will be the 2nd highest paid 3B in baseball in 2018.

I haven't heard any rumors about Seager, but I find it unlikely that JD deals him unless he has an immediate replacement in mind. He believes this is a contending team.

Issue with dealing Seager is the only realistic 3B options come from free agency. You sign Moustakas, then your leverage dealing Seager diminishes. You deal Seager, then Moustakas' agent has leverage in negotiations. I don't think JD is going to start selling, which makes moving Seager somewhat unlikely, even if it would be the best move.

Good points regarding Felix, Cano and Cruz.

 

[wazzu31]

All of that is completely true, but there are only two options to make trades and Jerry is addicted to then, it's either Seager or Zunino and I can't see him dealing Zunino. I'm not saying I want him dealt but someone has to go to (in Jerry's mind) improve the club and Seager doesn't fit the profile Jerry likes which is athletic and high OBP.

But if I were in Jerry's shoes I'd resign Dyson, and either Valencia or Alonso and deal Heredia or Gamel, which ever has higher value in a deal. I mean it'd be amazing if he still have O'Neill and could deal him or the other two this off-season but he left himself with a really short deck to get the pitchers they need to get the playoffs.

 

[seahawksfan234]

All of that is completely true, but there are only two options to make trades and Jerry is addicted to then, it's either Seager or Zunino and I can't see him dealing Zunino. I'm not saying I want him dealt but someone has to go to (in Jerry's mind) improve the club and Seager doesn't fit the profile Jerry likes which is athletic and high OBP.

But if I were in Jerry's shoes I'd resign Dyson, and either Valencia or Alonso and deal Heredia or Gamel, which ever has higher value in a deal. I mean it'd be amazing if he still have O'Neill and could deal him or the other two this off-season but he left himself with a really short deck to get the pitchers they need to get the playoffs.

I agree with all of this.

Given Gamel's massive regression, I'd want to dump him the most. His overall line was pretty solid, but it was inflated by a first half where he had an incredibly high BABIP, which came back down to earth.

Heredia didn't finish well, but it was later revealed he was playing with that injury. Great managerial decision by the Mariners not to just shelve him in the first place! But in all seriousness, Heredia I think has higher upside. He is above average defensively, and I feel like he still has a lot to learn at the plate. He has kind of a wild unconventional swing that I believe can be tweaked. I see him as a solid fourth outfielder.

I've always been a big, big Dyson fan. He'd be cheap to re-sign, plays an amazing centerfield and was a real weapon on the base paths. He is by far the most underrated player on this team IMO. Obviously he is not a long-term option, but with the Mariners limited financial flexibility, signing a top tier SP and a guy like Lorenzo Cain seems somewhat implausible. Dyson is a good CF and comes at a cheap price.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I suggested this before, and hell, if JD likes making trades so much it would make sense to move Gamel + something else for a pitcher and then sign J.D. Martinez to fill the corner outfield hole.

Martinez just turned 30 a few months ago and has established himself as one of MLB's best hitters. He only played in 119 games this year but managed to hit 45 HRs. That would average out to 61 HRs over a 162 game schedule

 

[wazzu31]

I agree with all of this.

Given Gamel's massive regression, I'd want to dump him the most. His overall line was pretty solid, but it was inflated by a first half where he had an incredibly high BABIP, which came back down to earth.

Heredia didn't finish well, but it was later revealed he was playing with that injury. Great managerial decision by the Mariners not to just shelve him in the first place! But in all seriousness, Heredia I think has higher upside. He is above average defensively, and I feel like he still has a lot to learn at the plate. He has kind of a wild unconventional swing that I believe can be tweaked. I see him as a solid fourth outfielder.

I've always been a big, big Dyson fan. He'd be cheap to re-sign, plays an amazing centerfield and was a real weapon on the base paths. He is by far the most underrated player on this team IMO. Obviously he is not a long-term option, but with the Mariners limited financial flexibility, signing a top tier SP and a guy like Lorenzo Cain seems somewhat implausible. Dyson is a good CF and comes at a cheap price.

Totally agree on Dyson. I was really shocked at how well he did with his first real starting experience which is why I don't mind resigning him which shouldn't be too high and dealing one of the other two. They need pitching more than a 4th OF. Ideally deal one for a veteran pitcher, resign Valencia or Alonso and sign Otani and they'd come into next year with the ability to reach the postseason. They don't have a prayer at the West with Houston but they could get in the mix with Minnesota and NY/Boston for the WC. They need a playoff appearance to get fans back on board instead of all of us being so pessimistic (with great reason) before we drop a boat load of money on them.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[SeattleCoug]

Chris Taylor just hit a home run in the first inning of the world series. He and Brandon Morrow have been quite successful with the Dodgers.

I've been stewing on this one pretty much all year. I get the idea of this trade. Chris Taylor was given a few chances here and did nothing with him. Plus this wasn't Dipoto's guy, as Dipoto is more about cheap controllable pitching depth. (That's a different conversation). Regardless I don't think the fact that he was traded for peanuts bothers me as much as the fact that we just whiffed on the development portion of it. Taylor hit at every minor league level so its a stunner he is having major league success. I am more tired of just continuing to ruin or whiff on young players and have them go elsewhere and succeed. That's the real reason this has been a dog shit franchise for many years, or at least the most important reason in my mind.

And little comment re Morrow. We screwed that up from Day 1 constantly changing from starter to closer to set up man. We just had no idea how to do anything will him. He will always be know around here as the guy who wasn't Tim Linecum but I think he had a chance to succeed if handled properly.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Am I the only one who wants to trade Felix? Been saying it for almost 2 years and it looks even more like we should. Although I don't see us getting much for him at this point

We missed that window. 2013 was the time to do that or I guess before 2013. Instead of rebuilding though we hung onto a Jack-ass for two more years and allowed him to give Cano a ridiculous contract because he was in a win or else spot. Now Felix is isn't worth a bag of balls, plus he has veto rights to any deal. Don't see him going anywhere and unless he decides to retire. But in all likelihood we have to endure the next two seasons with him

 

[seahawksfan234]

I've been stewing on this one pretty much all year. I get the idea of this trade. Chris Taylor was given a few chances here and did nothing with him. Plus this wasn't Dipoto's guy, as Dipoto is more about cheap controllable pitching depth. (That's a different conversation). Regardless I don't think the fact that he was traded for peanuts bothers me as much as the fact that we just whiffed on the development portion of it. Taylor hit at every minor league level so its a stunner he is having major league success. I am more tired of just continuing to ruin or whiff on young players and have them go elsewhere and succeed. That's the real reason this has been a dog shit franchise for many years, or at least the most important reason in my mind.

And little comment re Morrow. We screwed that up from Day 1 constantly changing from starter to closer to set up man. We just had no idea how to do anything will him. He will always be know around here as the guy who wasn't Tim Linecum but I think he had a chance to succeed if handled properly.

I think the Dodgers player development definitely deserves credit with Chris Taylor. He never hit with the type of power he is now demonstrated. Whatever they did was amazing. I was wondering if maybe he had bulked up or something, but he looked roughly the same size as he was with the Mariners to me.

I always liked Brandon Morrow, I thought he had really good stuff. I had high hopes for him. I'm somewhat surprised he didn't have more success as a starter. It appears that he has carved out quite a niche for himself in the pen though. Kind of strange he only pitched for us for 3 years and racked up only around 200 innings. For some reason I thought he was around longer.

The Morrow for League trade was a bad decision from day 1. Morrow had much more potential than League IMO.

 

[NWinAZ]

I think the Dodgers player development definitely deserves credit with Chris Taylor. He never hit with the type of power he is now demonstrated. Whatever they did was amazing. I was wondering if maybe he had bulked up or something, but he looked roughly the same size as he was with the Mariners to me.

I read an article about him in July or June and he was quoted as saying his biggest change was that he intentionally started hitting more fly balls. He was known as a line drive hitter his entire career but made the change and it clicked. Coincidentally, I heard another former M's player who lacked power with them and gained it with his new team say he changed to that same approach. Maybe control the zone is working against our youngsters with the live ball era back in play???

 

[wazzu31]

No one would have guessed Taylor would have turned out the way he has, hell even the Dodgers didn't at beginning of the year. I will disagree that he was given a real chance with the Mariners before he was written off. The only reason he was called up was because Brad Miller was such a bad SS. Not saying he was rushed but other guys were given a ton more room to suck before they were cast off (except maybe Nick Franklin) This is my main issue with the Mariners for years.

They don't have guys like Trout, yet if a dude comes up and doesn't have instant success they cast them off, except their first round picks. Hell, every scout in America had Adam Jones as a top 5 prospect yet the Mariners refused to give him a real shot. Hard to blame Jerry for the sins of previous regimes but in his 9,000 trades he hasn't exactly compiled collateral in the farm system either.

 

[wazzu31]

I read an article about him in July or June and he was quoted as saying his biggest change was that he intentionally started hitting more fly balls. He was known as a line drive hitter his entire career but made the change and it clicked. Coincidentally, I heard another former M's player who lacked power with them and gained it with his new team say he changed to that same approach. Maybe control the zone is working against our youngsters with the live ball era back in play???

I think a problem is the mental philosophy coming from Tacoma to Seattle. The PCL is known as a hitters league and it seems nearly all the players come to Seattle being told that doesn't work in Safeco. Miller had power in the minors but came to the big leagues and they tried making him the second coming of Ichiro with his slap hitting and trying to beat balls out. I think Safeco is built on an old Indian burial ground or something back in the Chief Sealth days.