Official Mariners arm-chair GM offseason thread

[seahawksfan234]

I gave him credit for Paxton only because he did have him back and forth in the upper system since taking over.

I gave him credit for Diaz because I believe it was he who turned him into a closer after being a starter.

Believe me, it was painful to even give him part credit for both those guys. Overall he gets an 'F' from me.

Did someone hack your account?

 

[wazzu31]

To be fair to DIP, we should at least examine the system and what it has provided the M's since DIP's tenure.

C- No
1B- No
2B- No
SS- No
3B- No
LF- No
CF- No
RF- No
Backup OF - Yes (Heredia)

SP1- Yes to some degree (Paxton)
SP2- No
SP3- No
SP4- No
SP5- No

Bullpen - Who cares they are a dime a dozen.

So after weighing the obvious, the answer is still a Hell No!

Whole problem is, GM's usually can't get judged for a few years because he needs "his guys". But since he took over has made like a thousand minor league moves, then has dealt what is it 15 of the top 20 prospects he inherited. But then again, this is the GM who thinks Andrew Moore is an ace in waiting.

 

[wazzu31]

I think that's what aggravates me as much as anything. When a GM lays out the type of on field product he wants and then goes away from it within a year or two. I can't remember Bavasi's first years as much and don't care to look them up but with Jack Z it became clear with the Montero for Pineda trade that he abandoned his original plan and then compounded it within the next few years. If there's two things I remember about Dipoto when he came it was outfield defense and getting on base(aka control the zone). This offseason he plans to convert a 2nd baseman in his 30's to CF and he trades for a first baseman who doesn't walk and has a horrible K rate.
Now obviously too early to judge but they are just puzzling moves to me as of now.

Agree, Gordon is the exact opposite of what Jerry preaches, with him never playing CF and not exactly a guy who controls the plate. Sure he's athletic as hell, but the approach of Zunino and hasn't played CF. Though Gordon doesn't worry me near as much as this 6 man rotation that he wants to go into the season when he has 3 guys who are legitimate starters but only one is remotely reliable. Though I do say I have more faith in Miranda then any of the other 7 guys vying for a rotation spot.

 

[wazzu31]

View attachment 173361


Mariners new head trainer.

Not trying to be sexist or whatever but yesterday we heard Gordon, Haniger and Healy all say she is amazing and does a great job but have never met her. I'm still unclear really what her role actually is. Before Jerry they had a great training staff but mentally hitting in Safeco killed them, now they have a solid psychological staff but everyone gets hurt.

 

[NWinAZ]

Not trying to be sexist or whatever but yesterday we heard Gordon, Haniger and Healy all say she is amazing and does a great job but have never met her. I'm still unclear really what her role actually is. Before Jerry they had a great training staff but mentally hitting in Safeco killed them, now they have a solid psychological staff but everyone gets hurt.

I don't care if it is a man or woman who runs the training program, but I have played and coached enough sports in my life to know that there is not a pure scientific method to keep everyone healthy. Every body is different therefor every body should be treated differently. Ichiro had his own regiment to working out and the game is a machine and never got hurt. So would you change his program if science tells you his way shouldn't work. Do you make others follow his lead because it is proven to work with him? I believe science can help, but I hate specialist that believe it is the only way to do it both for physical and mental training. Coaching is the same way. I never treated two players the same because no two players are the same. Steve Carlton had a healthy career and used karate for training. Ryan was a machine for two decades and he used running as his main method. I would prefer they used multi methods and matched players to a version that worked for each. Same with the mental approach. Control the zone does not work with all players. Sorry, but this stuff bugs me when it is promoted by teams as the end all cure all. Just like money ball which has won the A's how many championships?

 

[wazzu31]

I don't care if it is a man or woman who runs the training program, but I have played and coached enough sports in my life to know that there is not a pure scientific method to keep everyone healthy. Every body is different therefor every body should be treated differently. Ichiro had his own regiment to working out and the game is a machine and never got hurt. So would you change his program if science tells you his way shouldn't work. Do you make others follow his lead because it is proven to work with him? I believe science can help, but I hate specialist that believe it is the only way to do it both for physical and mental training. Coaching is the same way. I never treated two players the same because no two players are the same. Steve Carlton had a healthy career and used karate for training. Ryan was a machine for two decades and he used running as his main method. I would prefer they used multi methods and matched players to a version that worked for each. Same with the mental approach. Control the zone does not work with all players. Sorry, but this stuff bugs me when it is promoted by teams as the end all cure all. Just like money ball which has won the A's how many championships?

A. 100% agree with everything you said. If everyone was the same we would all be pro ball players

B. You stole my line with moneyball never winning a title. They always use the A's but they haven't even made a WS with moneyball and had highly coveted young all over that team, then they use the Red Sox who not only had the 2nd highest payroll but had some of the best players at their position in which they signed or traded for. Not moneyball dealing a relief pitcher for the top catching and pitching prospect of the Mariners.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Though I do say I have more faith in Miranda then any of the other 7 guys vying for a rotation spot.

I agree there although it’s not exactly a high bar. If he can just cut down on the HR ball you may have something there. If he needs to fill in and be a guy who throws less then 100 innings it could work because that’s around where he hit his wall last year.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree there although it’s not exactly a high bar. If he can just cut down on the HR ball you may have something there. If he needs to fill in and be a guy who throws less then 100 innings it could work because that’s around where he hit his wall last year.

I think with Miranda it's something the organization is going to have just live with much like Zunino and his strikeouts. I just prefer Miranda because he showed to me last year he is a guy who can go seven, just was the first year he threw so many innings.

 

[NWinAZ]

• Zach Crizer of MLB.com lists right-handers Danny Salazar (Indians) and Jake Odorizzi (Rays), and left-hander Ariel Miranda (Mariners) as pitchers with the potential to reach “ace” status in 2018. Crizer uses some incredibly specific stats to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of these three pitchers, showing a potential path to a breakout for each one. The piece includes videos and heat maps as well; it’s an intriguing read, particularly considering that Salazar and Odorizzi have been mentioned in trade rumors.

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Well there you have it.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Well it’s technically already happened. Miranda was our “Ace” for about 6 weeks last year

 

[NWinAZ]

Good read from Lookout Landing on comments made by M's management/ownership.

The truthiness of Jerry Dipoto and the Mariners pre-season presser

 

[NWinAZ]

Too funny. Dads.

 

[wazzu31]

• Zach Crizer of MLB.com lists right-handers Danny Salazar (Indians) and Jake Odorizzi (Rays), and left-hander Ariel Miranda (Mariners) as pitchers with the potential to reach “ace” status in 2018. Crizer uses some incredibly specific stats to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of these three pitchers, showing a potential path to a breakout for each one. The piece includes videos and heat maps as well; it’s an intriguing read, particularly considering that Salazar and Odorizzi have been mentioned in trade rumors.

------------------------------------

Well there you have it.

Call me crazy, but if he developes one more pitch, he has the potential to be very good. For a guy who has 1 1/2 pitches he showed signs of being a plus starter...but side note, all the remarks I heard from Jerry didn't even involve him with talks about the rotation. All he wanted to do was sell fans and the media on Gonzalez, Ramirez and Moore. Assuming Paxton, Leake and Felix are penciled in Ariel might not even start the season with the Mariners.

 

[wazzu31]

Good read from Lookout Landing on comments made by M's management/ownership.

The truthiness of Jerry Dipoto and the Mariners pre-season presser

I am still not a fan of Dipoto's unrealistic sell job. Sure if Paxton and Felix pitch to their potential all season, Leake puts up his normal stat line and whoever pitches 4 and 5 have breakout years they will have a top staff.

Not sure why they are so defensive about their farm system. IMO their logic is flawed with everyone wants their prospects it makes their farm system good. Of course teams are more than willing to trade their crap for your top 10 prospects or in terms of the Marlins they are having a fire sale. Plus, he has made so many trades it is disingenuous equating his farm system because other GM's are more than willing to trade with him.

 

[NWinAZ]

Call me crazy, but if he developes one more pitch, he has the potential to be very good. For a guy who has 1 1/2 pitches he showed signs of being a plus starter...but side note, all the remarks I heard from Jerry didn't even involve him with talks about the rotation. All he wanted to do was sell fans and the media on Gonzalez, Ramirez and Moore. Assuming Paxton, Leake and Felix are penciled in Ariel might not even start the season with the Mariners.

I actually agree with you on Miranda. He has the best arm in my opinion, but needs to learn to pitch a bit more including learning a new pitch like you mentioned. He is a two pitch pitcher which doesn't work fellas a starter, but I think he can get there.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I am still not a fan of Dipoto's unrealistic sell job. Sure if Paxton and Felix pitch to their potential all season, Leake puts up his normal stat line and whoever pitches 4 and 5 have breakout years they will have a top staff.

You cant sell a fan base who has seen nothing but crap for the last 16 years and most of the 41 year history on a bunch of "IFs" Sure most of the fans that go to games are business groups or dudes that stand in the beer garden with their back to the game but their are fans that aren't stupid.
If Paxton stays healthy
If Felix makes 25 starts
If Leake builds off his small sample size
If Erasmo sustains probably the best stretch of starting pitching in his career
If Marco can get a stronger another year after Tommy John
If Andrew Moore becomes a quality starter, If Miranda develops another pitch. IF IF IF

Sorry but I am not giving Dipoto the benefit yet. You cant ask for trust from your fan base when it hasn't been earned.

 

[wazzu31]

You cant sell a fan base who has seen nothing but crap for the last 16 years and most of the 41 year history on a bunch of "IFs" Sure most of the fans that go to games are business groups or dudes that stand in the beer garden with their back to the game but their are fans that aren't stupid.
If Paxton stays healthy
If Felix makes 25 starts
If Leake builds off his small sample size
If Erasmo sustains probably the best stretch of starting pitching in his career
If Marco can get a stronger another year after Tommy John
If Andrew Moore becomes a quality starter, If Miranda develops another pitch. IF IF IF

Sorry but I am not giving Dipoto the benefit yet. You cant ask for trust from your fan base when it hasn't been earned.

That is my thing, he is selling fans on being a competitive team if x, y and z happen. Two problems with this philosophy, there is a .01% chance that will happen so just sign a reliable starter now so they aren't 15 games behind the Astros at the deadline. And let's say all those if happens, that just puts them in contention for the WC game and he has dealt his entire farm system so he doesn't have anyone to deal.

With a payroll this high and no farm system, their goal should be the World Series, not a play in game. With all of his deals, the organization is not built for the future, no matter how much he thinks controllable contracts mean for the future. There are 4 controllable contracts that mean anything, Paxton, Zunino, Segura and Haniger (unless I'm missing one). Everyone else isn't a championship caliber core.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Only way this team makes the playoffs is if an unrealistic number of variables go incredibly right.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Only way this team makes the playoffs is if an unrealistic number of variables go incredibly right.

I could see them being this years version of the Twins but that's basically the ceiling. Hoping you are the best of a bunch of mediocre teams outside the Top 4 in the league.

 

[NWinAZ]

How crazy is that?