Off-season news 2024

[Screamin12th]

Cross isn't even ranked in the top 32 for tackles ( Both left and right ) If he doesn't step up this year and play better it will be a mild bust pick. He isn't even in the top 20 for Left tackles. Thats not good for a #9 pick. maybe im being harder on him than I should because i wanted Hamilton.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

So you want a Average back end, got it. Love is servicable yes and he had a pretty good year last year but he can be upgraded. Should have grabbed Hamilton when we had the chance in 2022. In my eyes Cross has not played to the level of a 9th Pick. Lucas has out performed him when on the field. Now with Hindsight I would 100% take him over Cross.

People seem to forget when you got dog shit on the back end then you replace with ham and cheese and it looks WAY better that doesn't mean they are Great. It's like a average player playing on a team with no talent how it makes that average player look like a stud. Love is servicable yes he is a Bradley McDougald type. He can be upgraded but is more than sevicable as he has his moments. Time will tell if he is a flash in the pan.

What I'm saying is a better front end probably makes a better back end. If teams are rushing all over you for 5+ YPC and the QB has 4-5 seconds to throw, I don't care how good your safety is. You're getting torched somewhere.

Yes, of course you could improve a lot of positions... I'm saying we have a LOT of secondary depth and some guys that are DBs/CBs that could probably switch to safety. Spending resources on that when we just spent resources (cap/salary) on another safety seems ridiculous.

Cross had some good flashes as a rookie. He was 21 btw when drafted, and then had to play with a nagging injury last year... and a crap interior OL as Lewis mailed it in, Brown sucked, Bradford was a disaster, and Lucas went out. He improved last year (despite injury) and is becoming a better pass blocker.

 

[Screamin12th]

Cross had some good flashes as a rookie. He was 21 btw when drafted, and then had to play with a nagging injury last year... and a crap interior OL as Lewis mailed it in, Brown sucked, Bradford was a disaster, and Lucas went out. He improved last year (despite injury) and is becoming a better pass blocker.

He is no where near where he needs to be for the 9th pick in the draft and many looked at him as the best LT in the 2022 draft. He shows flashes of good play and then flashes of some pretty poor play. Forsythe was graded out as a 75 in 2023 and Cross was only 1 point ahead of him, that speaks volumes. ( Not PFF grades btw but SI's )

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[Sharkonabicycle]

He is no where near where he needs to be for the 9th pick in the draft and many looked at him as the best LT in the 2022 draft. He shows flashes of good play and then flashes of some pretty poor play. Forsythe was graded out as a 75 in 2023 and Cross was only 1 point ahead of him, that speaks volumes. ( Not PFF grades btw but SI's )

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I really don't get WTF you're trying to argue at this point screamin....

This started out as I don't agree safety is a huge need and there are other positions at OL, DL, ILB that are more important. Then in post 1,021 you want off on a complete tangent that Cross is somehow not good enough (which whatever, hence me saying OL, DL, ILB are more important). I defended that saying he's young (he had some work to do coming out of College, this was acknowledged by everyone) but now you're flipping out on somehow an above average LT starter at 23 years of age is a problem.

And then you assume that I didn't want a good defensive backend (safeties) which is not true because we're fairly deep at the position and just spent money on Love, and if you've paid attention for the years we've both been posting on this forum I value safety play more than the average fan. Blair as I said was likely brought in because Reed was out. And Blair has great potential (as I said) - guy just can't stay healthy... maybe (as I also said) he found the fountain of youth.

I'm not sure where the hell you're going today, mah dude... Not really sure how the hell to respond to you at this point.

 

[Screamin12th]

I really don't get WTF you're trying to argue at this point screamin....

This started out as I don't agree safety is a huge need and there are other positions at OL, DL, ILB that are more important. Then in post 1,021 you want off on a complete tangent that Cross is somehow not good enough (which whatever, hence me saying OL, DL, ILB are more important). I defended that saying he's young (he had some work to do coming out of College, this was acknowledged by everyone) but now you're flipping out on somehow an above average LT starter at 23 years of age is a problem.

And then you assume that I didn't want a good defensive backend (safeties) which is not true because we're fairly deep at the position and just spent money on Love, and if you've paid attention for the years we've both been posting on this forum I value safety play more than the average fan. Blair as I said was likely brought in because Reed was out. And Blair has great potential (as I said) - guy just can't stay healthy... maybe (as I also said) he found the fountain of youth.

I'm not sure where the hell you're going today, mah dude... Not really sure how the hell to respond to you at this point.

It wasnt a tangent at all it is a discussion, you must have read into it wrong. Maybe thats why you are confussed because you thought it was argumentative lol. Just a back and forth is all. I just expected much more from Cross than we are getting. He is like the 28th ranked LT in the NFL and i expected MUCH more from him. I like Love also and was glad when he was out there and not Adams I just think we can do better.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

It wasnt a tangent at all it is a discussion, you must have read into it wrong. Maybe thats why you are confussed because you thought it was argumentative lol. Just a back and forth is all. I just expected much more from Cross than we are getting. He is like the 28th ranked LT in the NFL and i expected MUCH more from him. I like Love also and was glad when he was out there and not Adams I just think we can do better.

You brought Cross out of nowhere... we were talking about safeties and where I didn't think we needed one and needed OL and then you just randomly brought up Cross and why he wasn't worth the #9 overall pick.

Are you really implying a safety is more important than a franchise left tackle? You're out of your fuckin' mind dude. And if where you're going is Captain Hindsight mode, you're dismissed.

Safeties were also WIDELY available this free agency and not getting massive contracts. You know who wasn't available? Young talented OTs who played on a completely shit OL as one of the youngest in the league.

 

[MrS]

So you want a Average back end, got it. Love is servicable yes and he had a pretty good year last year but he can be upgraded. Should have grabbed Hamilton when we had the chance in 2022. In my eyes Cross has not played to the level of a 9th Pick. Lucas has out performed him when on the field. Now with Hindsight I would 100% take him over Cross.

People seem to forget when you got dog shit on the back end then you replace with ham and cheese and it looks WAY better that doesn't mean they are Great. It's like a average player playing on a team with no talent how it makes that average player look like a stud. Love is servicable yes he is a Bradley McDougald type. He can be upgraded but is more than sevicable as he has his moments. Time will tell if he is a flash in the pan.

Cmon man, taking safety top 10 over LT? Are you on crack?

 

[Screamin12th]

Cmon man, taking safety top 10 over LT? Are you on crack?

taking a top 5 Safety right now in the NFL over a tackle not even in the top 32 in the nfl? Yes every day.

PFF Offensive Tackle Rankings: Top 32 ahead of the 2024 NFL season

Continuing our series of player rankings, here are the top 32 offensive tackles in the league, starting with San Francisco 49ers left tackle Trent Williams.

www.pff.com

 

[Screamin12th]

You brought Cross out of nowhere... we were talking about safeties and where I didn't think we needed one and needed OL and then you just randomly brought up Cross and why he wasn't worth the #9 overall pick.

Are you really implying a safety is more important than a franchise left tackle? You're out of your fuckin' mind dude. And if where you're going is Captain Hindsight mode, you're dismissed.

Safeties were also WIDELY available this free agency and not getting massive contracts. You know who wasn't available? Young talented OTs who played on a completely shit OL as one of the youngest in the league.

I brought up cross because he was drafted 9th when the Hawks could have had Hamilton, again it was just a back and forth and you got all pissy haha. Cross was drafted #9 the same year Hamilton was drafted that is why i brought him up did you forget what year Hamilton was drafted and the fact that Cross has been average at best LT? I said " Cross needs to step it up or he will be looked at as a mild bust" and that is fact. He has not played to the level of a top 10 pick PERIOD. On the other hand Hamilton is a STUD!

Ranking top 20 safeties for 2024 NFL season: Steelers' Minkah Fitzpatrick among players in tier of their own

Here it is, the ranking of the top 20 safeties in the NFL

www.cbssports.com

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I brought up cross because he was drafted 9th when the Hawks could have had Hamilton, again it was just a back and forth and you got all pissy haha. Cross was drafted #9 the same year Hamilton was drafted that is why i brought him up did you forget what year Hamilton was drafted and the fact that Cross has been average at best LT? I said " Cross needs to step it up or he will be looked at as a mild bust" and that is fact. He has not played to the level of a top 10 pick PERIOD. On the other hand Hamilton is a STUD!

Ranking top 20 safeties for 2024 NFL season: Steelers' Minkah Fitzpatrick among players in tier of their own

Here it is, the ranking of the top 20 safeties in the NFL

www.cbssports.com

It wasn't back and forth, lol.

I said in my opinion we didn't need another safety and I was only talking about safeties and secondary (as you were). You went off the rails and implied Cross was a bad pick and Hamilton was the pick we should've done, which is one of the most hindsighted (that might not be a word, whatever) ridiculous things I've ever heard you say.

Hey - if you really wanted Hamilton and predicted him being an all pro, I want you to quote yourself saying during or prior to the draft you wanted him and Cross was a bad pick. You really wanted at the time of the draft Hamilton over a franchise LT (or potential)? Go find a post from you. I'm waiting.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Cmon man, taking safety top 10 over LT? Are you on crack?

You're giving crack too much credit. Screamin' must be on some sort of new product... I'll do what I can to support him.

 

[Screamin12th]

It wasn't back and forth, lol.

I said in my opinion we didn't need another safety and I was only talking about safeties and secondary (as you were). You went off the rails and implied Cross was a bad pick and Hamilton was the pick we should've done, which is one of the most hindsighted (that might not be a word, whatever) ridiculous things I've ever heard you say.

Hey - if you really wanted Hamilton and predicted him being an all pro, I want you to quote yourself saying during or prior to the draft you wanted him and Cross was a bad pick. You really wanted at the time of the draft Hamilton over a franchise LT (or potential)? Go find a post from you. I'm waiting.

It was a back and forth meaning just a discussion bouncing stuff back and forth. Not a argument, but you tried to turn it into one lol. I never went off the rails i said so you are fine with average. It was a discussion and you got hurt or something or read it with anger that you put into it LMFAO!

Britannica Dictionary definition of BACK–AND–FORTH. [noncount] : talk or discussion about something.

Not once did i post in anger or was i even remotely upset i stated my opinion and then you got upset.

I am willing to give Cross another year thats why i didn't say we needed oline but he HAS to step up and play to his draft position.

PS I am still not upset im baffled and laughing at how you could take a back and forth as anger.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

It was a back and forth meaning just a discussion bouncing stuff back and forth. Not a argument, but you tried to turn it into one lol. I never went off the rails i said so you are fine with average. It was a discussion and you got hurt or something or read it with anger that you put into it LMFAO!

Britannica Dictionary definition of BACK–AND–FORTH. [noncount] : talk or discussion about something.

Not once did i post in anger or was i even remotely upset i stated my opinion and then you got upset.

I am willing to give Cross another year thats why i didn't say we needed oline but he HAS to step up and play to his draft position.

PS I am still not upset im baffled and laughing at how you could take a back and forth as anger.

Hey sure, whatever.

Hopefully Blair can get back at it! I really hope we sign Williams. OL is so thin

 

[Screamin12th]

Seattle Seahawks offensive lineman Charles Cross is entering his third season with the team after being the No. 9 overall pick in the 2022 NFL Draft, and to this point, he hasn't lived up to the standards for a top-10 pick.

not my words.

If he gets worse in 2024 the pick is a mild bust, if he gets better then he is only getting closer to where he SHOULD be. His age gives him a little time but this is his 3rd season and if he sucks do you trigger the 5th year option next offseason? most likely not you let them play out and become a free agent. A top 10 pick that you let walk means bust.

 

[MrS]

taking a top 5 Safety right now in the NFL over a tackle not even in the top 32 in the nfl? Yes every day.

PFF Offensive Tackle Rankings: Top 32 ahead of the 2024 NFL season

Continuing our series of player rankings, here are the top 32 offensive tackles in the league, starting with San Francisco 49ers left tackle Trent Williams.

www.pff.com

Sure dude if you have a crystal ball you do that, but on draft day you have to be a full fledged hunter biden level cocaine addict to take a safety over a LT in the top 10.

Almost as dumb as taking a 5'10 corner over a potential generational DT in the top 5

 

[blstoker]

Sure dude if you have a crystal ball you do that, but on draft day you have to be a full fledged hunter biden level cocaine addict to take a safety over a LT in the top 10.

Almost as dumb as taking a 5'10 corner over a potential generational DT in the top 5

I mean you say things like this, but history doesn't show that NFL front offices agree with you. In the last 10 drafts (2014-2023), 10 CBs were taken top 10 against 4 DTs. In 40 years of total NFL experience, those corners provided 15 Pro Bowls and 6 All Pros. The DTs produced 15 years of experience, 3 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro. 2019 was the only draft in this time where the first DT was taken before the first CB.

In the case of top 5 picks over the same time period - 6 CBs to 1 DT. 13 PB 5 AP in the CBs, 2 PB 1 AP in DTs. In case you wanna point out the top 10 isn't the top 5.

 

[MrS]

In the case of top 5 picks over the same time period - 6 CBs to 1 DT. 13 PB 5 AP in the CBs, 2 PB 1 AP in DTs. In case you wanna point out the top 10 isn't the top 5.

5'10 corner over a potential generational talent at DT when it was an absolutely dire need.
You cant justify that, i dont care how many 6'1 corners have been taken in the past 10 years.
Maybe thats part of the reason pete was let go and our first pick after his tenure was a DT.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

5'10 corner over a potential generational talent at DT when it was an absolutely dire need.
You cant justify that, i dont care how many 6'1 corners have been taken in the past 10 years.
Maybe thats part of the reason pete was let go and our first pick after his tenure was a DT.

I mean I was pissed we took Witherspoon over Carter - and then that forced us trading for Williams - yah it panned out so far, but Williams is 30... he doesn't have that much left and he's at his ceiling and will only drop off. Imagine if we had Carter and Murphy though... oooh yah. Carter, Williams, Murphy? I'd still rather have that over Witherspoon...

In addition, corners and DBs just seem to be available in free agency these days (or tradeable). Meanwhile, generational DTs are like QBs and LTs.... they are never available for a trade and if so they cost a TON in picks and salary cap. It's also become a passing league and NCAAF has completely adapted to it, which means quality DBs are pouring out left and right. You can plug in DBs and safeties day 1 if they were a 2nd or 3rd round pick. There's no reason to spend a top 5 on them, and if you really want a great safety/DB there's a decent chance one will be available in Free Agency. You're not getting a great LT or DT (or QB) in free agency.

That said Witherspoon certainly lived up to the hype that year... but so did Carter. The issue I have is we have a lot of depth at CB... and I don't care if Woolen can't play the run or tackle amazingly... neither could Dieon Sanders and Sauce Gardner sucks as well at tackling... I think when Carroll benched Woolen after having him on point to 'make the play' against the best RB in the NFL with a lead blocker was when I was done with him.

Although, Witherspoon does fit what Macdonald wants to do perfectly. MacDonald can move him all over the place. Want him on a guy like Kupp? Done. Want him box, nickel, man coverage, zone coverage, blitzing, whatever... My issue with Witherspoon is his playstyle and size. I think he's going to be injured way too often.

Again I don't know why me saying a safety is not a MAJOR need, morphed into talking about Cross... and then we should've taken Hamilton (which is complete hindsight, I guess we should've taken Tom Brady with our 1st rounder instead of Shaun Alexander, huh?). I don't want to get back into it with screamin' but I agree 100% when you need a franchise LT (and we did, just like we needed a QB and a DT) the value is FAR more important than a fuckin' safety.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

And Baltimore had their QB, LT (Stanley, although struggling to stay healthy) and DT locked up. They had the luxury to take a safety which was also a MID first pick... not a top 10. We had huge holes at LT, RT, DT, and QB technically (given we had no idea what Smith would do) when we were taking Cross. Taking a safety at that point would've been completely insane logic. Not to mention we had like $30M+ in cap locked up in Diggs/Adams? Again, I guess we should've taken Tom Brady in 2000 instead of Shaun Alexander, huh?

Saying that Cross hasn't 'lived up to the top 10 hype' - fine... okay? He's done better than the other two OTs taken before him, he's an above average pass protector, was playing through some injuries last year, and is TWENTY THREE (with two full seasons). The one knock on Cross coming out of college was his age.. that he'd need to gain experience. A lot of franchise OTs are being drafted at 23 years of age. Cross is that and already has two quite serviceable seasons under his belt.

And last year with Witherspoon... we still had holes at QB and DT, so much that we had to surrender a 2nd round pick to trade for a 29 year old (hit the ceiling) player for a 1 year rental (yes we extended thankfully) and then were lucky enough to have Murphy drop to us which was snatched up without hesitation (the clock didn't even hit the 2 minute mark - I'm sure they took calls but Seattle had ZERO intention of trading out of that pick).

 

[HaroldSeattle]

People develop crushes on college players then spend years complaining because their team didn't draft their crush. At the time Seahawks had way to much invested in safety to use their 1.10 on another safety (yes we all agree they screwed up at the position) as for that DT he was used in a rotation in college (and pro's) has questions about staying in shape, weight problems, and then clubbing and racing rather then preparing for the draft. None of his college coaches put a good word in for him. Got to say I was shocked they went CB even though I loved Witherspoon tape, he was a bit under sized for his style of play and I thought DL or QB was going to be the choice given their needs