The Hawks board is a little slow right now, so here's a hot take for you.......maybe

[flyerhawk]

I'm curious how much of their offense is designed by Hackett and how much is designed by Russ?

Seems like they just weren't willing to set up short plays to bring in those 2 high safeties. The one screen I saw them run got them 15 yards.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm curious how much of their offense is designed by Hackett and how much is designed by Russ?

Seems like they just weren't willing to set up short plays to bring in those 2 high safeties. The one screen I saw them run got them 15 yards.

Well Russell wanted control and a say in the offense, which has clearly done fuck all if that's the case.

Also worth noting Hackett was not calling the plays in Green Bay. Lafleur assumed responsibility.

I said it numerous times on this forum, everyone saying Denver had a Super Bowl shot because of Wilson was out of their fuckin' mind. New head coach, new OL coach, new defensive coordinator, a one year wonder in Sutton, Jeudy who has potential but really has done fuck all in his career. I simply didn't get it.

Carroll also clearly took over control of the scheme/gameplan halfway through 2020 when the "Let Russ Cook" experiment failed after defenses clearly caught on to Wilson's lock on approach. It was very obvious Carroll said, "Yah no, guy... we're going back to a reliable approach. We tried it your way, now we're going back to mine." And then Carroll saying of Geno, "He listens." or something to that effect.

End of day, it was just kind of a disaster move by Denver. You brought in a guy who probably wasn't ready to be a head coach, then traded and paid massively for a QB that IMO is 'spent' (nothing wrong with Wilson being spent mind you, not everyone can be Tomb Brady), and then really did nothing else in the offseason to improve anything, while letting go of multiple coaches that were getting decent production out of the team.... in a division that is probably the most competitive in football.

I can't remember what I gave the Wilson trade from Denver's end,, it certainly wasn't in the A range (I think B- or C+?).

 

[Screamin12th]

Unless something happened in the offseason his finger shouldn't be an issue as he was making all the throws the last few games of last season (yes they were against bad teams, but it's not like Denver outside of San Fran has faced any real good defenses). That said, he was playing with a shoulder issue last night. He said he was good to go - but I have to question whether that's the case.

Wilson was IMO a great QB and should be in the HOF... he's the best QB Seattle ever had. That said, his strength was 1) Great arm (IMO he still has that, but now injuries), 2) Selling the playaction on a run first team, and 3) Mobility.

While injuries might be hampering #1, #3 on my list is gone. Guy is 34, and has taken a lot of hits due to not only just the nature of the game, but his playstyle (holding onto the ball forever, trying to extend the play - 16 sacks and 36 QB hits in Denver which was supposed to be this OH SO BETTER LINE, already) also allowed a lot of those hits. He's not able to roll outside of the pocket as easy anymore, and it appears whether it's Hackett or Wilson that he's now trying to be a pocket QB. .................. Well, if that's the case, that's not going to work and it's not what you traded for.

Denver traded for an improv QB who uses his legs to extend plays and take shots downfield. Wilson never was a progression/middle of the field/check down QB. Again, that worked fine when he could use his legs, but now that's gone.... ..... eh whatever, Denver bought a used car with a blown head gasket and paid $200M+ for it. And I've held this stance all offseason, I graded the trade favorable for Seattle.

No, 3 of his last 4 games in 2021 he had a 59% completion percentage OR WORSE so tell me he finished fine again. Go watch those games again at the end of the season. He was still a little off target like now. Wilson has had good games like he played well against Seattle and LV this year but he just is missing throws he wouldn't ever miss and his passes are hit and miss some times in the dirt some times over their head. He ended the season having a good game against Detroit in the 2nd to last game in 2021 OH BOY thats hard to do LMAO

 

[MrS]

Wilson was IMO a great QB and should be in the HOF...

IF they had won the second SB and he didnt throw a pic to end the game, I would agree with you.
I dont think he is HoF worthy, he has never had an MVP season he has never been the obvious best QB in the league. There are a lot of QBs that deserve to be there before him.

 

[Screamin12th]

5 out of his last 9 games he was under 60% completion percentage.

 

[Screamin12th]

IF they had won the second SB and he didnt throw a pic to end the game, I would agree with you.
I dont think he is HoF worthy, he has never had an MVP season he has never been the obvious best QB in the league. There are a lot of QBs that deserve to be there before him.

To be fair he should have won it the Season Cam won it and lets not joke around. Cam won it with a SUB 60% completion percentage and ONLY won it because of how well the team did. As a QB completion percentage should ALWAYS be a major stat when talking about MVP because had Wilson played for the Panthers that year they win the superbowl instead Cam ran away from a fumble so he wouldn't get hurt. A QB is a QB not a running back and Cam got awarded for being the best running QB not the best QB. He ONLY won it because of the 15-1 Panthers and had they been say 9-7 with his stat line he wouldn't have sniffed the MVP.

Pass Completions (Cmp)

Cam Newton	296
Russell Wilson	329

Passing Attempts (Att)

Cam Newton	495
Russell Wilson	483

Completion Percentage (Cmp%)

Cam Newton	59.8
Russell Wilson	68.1

Passing Yards (Yds)

Cam Newton	3,837
Russell Wilson	4,024

Touchdown Passes (TD)

Cam Newton	35
Russell Wilson	34

Touchdown Percentage (TD%)

Cam Newton	7.1%
Russell Wilson	7.0%

Interceptions Thrown (Int)

Cam Newton	10
Russell Wilson	8

Interception Percentage (INT%)

Cam Newton	2.0
Russell Wilson	1.7

Game Winning Drives (GWD)

Cam Newton	4
Russell Wilson	3

Yards per Pass Attempt (Y/A)

Cam Newton	7.8
Russell Wilson	8.3

Adjusted Yards per Pass Attempt (AY/A)

Cam Newton	8.3
Russell Wilson	9.0

Yards Gained per Pass Completion (Y/C)

Cam Newton	13.0
Russell Wilson	12.2

Yards Gained per Games Played (Y/G)

Cam Newton	239.8
Russell Wilson	251.5

Rushing Attempts (Att)

Cam Newton	132
Russell Wilson	103

Rushing Yards (Yds)

Cam Newton	636
Russell Wilson	553

Rushing Touchdowns (TD)

Cam Newton	10
Russell Wilson	1

Rushing Yards per Game (Y/G)

Cam Newton	39.8
Russell Wilson	34.6

Rushing Attempts per Game (A/G)

Cam Newton	8.3
Russell Wilson	6.4

Rushing Yards per Attempt (Y/A)

Cam Newton	4.8
Russell Wilson	5.4

Fumbles

Cam Newton	5
Russell Wilson	7

QB Rating (Rate)

Cam Newton	99.4
Russell Wilson	110.1

When talking about QB's not "Running backs" Wilson's over all performance ( AS A QB ) was better than Cam Newtons. I always look at the MVP's like if they were on a different team would they have the same success or if someone was on their team replacing them would they have MORE success. I think in both Wilson would have did better on the Panthers than Cam did

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

No, 3 of his last 4 games in 2021 he had a 59% completion percentage OR WORSE so tell me he finished fine again. Go watch those games again at the end of the season. He was still a little off target like now. Wilson has had good games like he played well against Seattle and LV this year but he just is missing throws he wouldn't ever miss and his passes are hit and miss some times in the dirt some times over their head. He ended the season having a good game against Detroit in the 2nd to last game in 2021 OH BOY thats hard to do LMAO

Ah yah, guess you're right. I thought he finished more strongly, looks like the Zona game was the one where he was on. I mean, I still don't remember him throwing absolutely dreadful passes against Detroit and Arizona.

 

[MrS]

To be fair he should have won it the Season Cam won it and lets not joke around. Cam won it with a SUB 60% completion percentage and ONLY won it because of how well the team did. As a QB completion percentage should ALWAYS be a major stat when talking about MVP because had Wilson played for the Panthers that year they win the superbowl instead Cam ran away from a fumble so he wouldn't get hurt. A QB is a QB not a running back and Cam got awarded for being the best running QB not the best QB. He ONLY won it because of the 15-1 Panthers and had they been say 9-7 with his stat line he wouldn't have sniffed the MVP.

When talking about QB's not "Running backs" Wilson's over all performance ( AS A QB ) was better than Cam Newtons. I always look at the MVP's like if they were on a different team would they have the same success or if someone was on their team replacing them would they have MORE success. I think in both Wilson would have did better on the Panthers than Cam did

I looked through that but did not see sacks. Wilsons completion % and rating would be LOWER if he threw the ball away more and took less sacks. I dont think Wilson has had an MVP season, there was always another QB that was better any given year.
given that Wilson is not well thought of also hurts his chances of making it in.

 

[Screamin12th]

I looked through that but did not see sacks. Wilsons completion % and rating would be LOWER if he threw the ball away more and took less sacks. I dont think Wilson has had an MVP season, there was always another QB that was better any given year.
given that Wilson is not well thought of also hurts his chances of making it in.

Cam was not the better "QB" that season. He was the better running back. Cam also would run in the ball from the 1 yard line as the "lead" option for short yardage. Thats not what Wilson does. I am Sure he could have added 4 to 7 more TD had the Hawks used Wilson as a running back at the 1 yard line. Olines were not comparable as the Panthers had a very good Oline Seattle had a VERY BAD oline. Wilson had 45 Sacks against him Cam had 33.

After the 2015 season the Oline ranking for that season had the panthers at #2 and the Seahawks at #30. This was a ranking done by PFF on Jan 20 2016.

The Only reason Cam won it was because the Panthers went 15-1. If they had gone 7-9 he wouldn't have got a vote

 

[Screamin12th]

His other shot at it was 2019 but that year another QB went crazy with "RUSHING YARDS" posting 1200+ rushing yards and sealing his MVP for being the best RUSHING QB in the NFL ...

I always thought a QB's job was to be a point guard type player not a Running back but the NFL is changing. It's starting to look like college football and not Pro Football.

Tell me with a straight face Lamar Jackson is a better QB than Wilson .. Or was because now he just might be. Wilson has fallen so far it's pretty sad.

 

[MrS]

lamar jackson is not a better QB, but at the same time wilson didnt have an over the top MVP year that would have allowed voters to hand him the award. that same year mahomes had similar numbers but missed several games. rodgers did too and also won more games.

 

[Screamin12th]

lamar jackson is not a better QB, but at the same time wilson didnt have an over the top MVP year that would have allowed voters to hand him the award. that same year mahomes had similar numbers but missed several games. rodgers did too and also won more games.

Wilson also went 1-3 to finish that season and that didn't help him. But you say Lamar Jackson WASN'T the better QB and I agree and neither was Cam Newton in 2015. Better runner? yes hands down. Better team? yes they had a great defense and a top flight elite oline. Better QB? Not when your QB is sub 60% nope not even close.

ever seen this?

Newton’s 32 total touchdowns (25 passing, 7 rushing) rank second in the NFL, behind only Tom Brady’s 34. However, the rest of his passing stats fall somewhere between completely average and completely awful. His 58.4 completion percentage ranks 30th among quarterbacks. His 7.5 yards per attempt is lower than rookies Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston. His passer rating of 93.2 is 15th, behind Brian Hoyer and Josh McCown.

 

[Screamin12th]

then they go one to say

But I shudder to think what those numbers would look like if he compiled them while playing against an average strength of schedule. Instead, Newton’s stats have come against the 29th-easiest schedule of defenses in the NFL this season, according to Football Outsiders. Seven of his touchdown passes have come against the New Orleans Saints, who have arguably the worst defense of the past 30 years.


From a rollingstones post.

Why Cam Newton Isn't the NFL MVP

The Carolina Panthers are 12-0 and their QB is having a career year – but he might not even be the most valuable player on his team

www.rollingstone.com

 

[MrS]

Its not always about stats.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seems as good as anywhere to post this

 

[Screamin12th]

Its not always about stats.

If a QB is going to Win the MVP he better be at the VERY LEAST the best player on his team ( He wasn't Luke Kuechly was ) AND the Best QB in the NFL ( not RB ). He wasn't!