NWO do-over

[carson]

Nothing beats Hogan strumming to Hendrix on the the "big gold belt" ... nothing.

The rise of the NWO was fucking amazing, but in typical WCW fashion, they took it too far. I agree that the group grew way too big, too fast. And while there needed to be a solid period of group dominance, there were times they'd completely sabotage an episode of Nitro and it was literally 30 mins of watching them do stupid shit with spray paint.

The "finger poke of doom" is often hinted at as the moment WCW "jumped the shark", but it was much, much sooner. The minute the NWO broke into another faction, and that faction (Wolfpack) was booked as face, it all started to suck. And don't get me going on the whole "NWO 2000" bullshit. I'm big fan of the "Slapnuts" Jeff Jarrett, but his version of the NWO was hot garbage.

Triple H and Michaels do their occasional DX bit, but the group was never over-saturated, completely overplayed, aand then half-ass re-attempted later on. Huge difference from how the NWO grew too fast and was re-tried time and time again. And now that I think about it, the HBK-led NWO in WWE, with Booker T, Nash, X-Pac, and Big Show, was by far the worst version of the faction.

 

[wazzu31]

Kind of proof in the pudding 205 live sucks donkey balls. They have to bribe fans to be in attendance much like WCW did in their latter stage and big name stars refuse to be put in that category even though they would flourish in a cruiser weight match. HHH can try his best to save it but it has flopped and will be nothing but WWE network fodder.

 

[The Q]

Nothing beats Hogan strumming to Hendrix on the the "big gold belt" ... nothing.

The rise of the NWO was fucking amazing, but in typical WCW fashion, they took it too far. I agree that the group grew way too big, too fast. And while there needed to be a solid period of group dominance, there were times they'd completely sabotage an episode of Nitro and it was literally 30 mins of watching them do stupid shit with spray paint.

The "finger poke of doom" is often hinted at as the moment WCW "jumped the shark", but it was much, much sooner. The minute the NWO broke into another faction, and that faction (Wolfpack) was booked as face, it all started to suck. And don't get me going on the whole "NWO 2000" bullshit. I'm big fan of the "Slapnuts" Jeff Jarrett, but his version of the NWO was hot garbage.

Triple H and Michaels do their occasional DX bit, but the group was never over-saturated, completely overplayed, aand then half-ass re-attempted later on. Huge difference from how the NWO grew too fast and was re-tried time and time again. And now that I think about it, the HBK-led NWO in WWE, with Booker T, Nash, X-Pac, and Big Show, was by far the worst version of the faction.

It started with starrcade 97

 

[StanMarsh51]

Kind of proof in the pudding 205 live sucks donkey balls. They have to bribe fans to be in attendance much like WCW did in their latter stage and big name stars refuse to be put in that category even though they would flourish in a cruiser weight match. HHH can try his best to save it but it has flopped and will be nothing but WWE network fodder.

They film 205 Live right after Smackdown, so all of the fans in attendance for 205 Live are those who stayed after Smackdown to watch.

205 Live is a quality show, but there's no starpower and no cross-promotion with Raw/Smackdown anymore and that hurts it.

 

[The Q]

Nothing beats Hogan strumming to Hendrix on the the "big gold belt" ... nothing.

The rise of the NWO was fucking amazing, but in typical WCW fashion, they took it too far. I agree that the group grew way too big, too fast. And while there needed to be a solid period of group dominance, there were times they'd completely sabotage an episode of Nitro and it was literally 30 mins of watching them do stupid shit with spray paint.

The "finger poke of doom" is often hinted at as the moment WCW "jumped the shark", but it was much, much sooner. The minute the NWO broke into another faction, and that faction (Wolfpack) was booked as face, it all started to suck. And don't get me going on the whole "NWO 2000" bullshit. I'm big fan of the "Slapnuts" Jeff Jarrett, but his version of the NWO was hot garbage.

Triple H and Michaels do their occasional DX bit, but the group was never over-saturated, completely overplayed, aand then half-ass re-attempted later on. Huge difference from how the NWO grew too fast and was re-tried time and time again. And now that I think about it, the HBK-led NWO in WWE, with Booker T, Nash, X-Pac, and Big Show, was by far the worst version of the faction.

If there was a time to be predictable it was SC97 and let Sting kick Hogan’s treasonous butt all over that building.

Frankly making that a falls Count anywhere match would’ve been fantastic

 

[carson]

It started with starrcade 97

Yep. No need for Bret Hart to be involved in that match. WCW forced Hart into their main event scene worse than Kirby Smart forced Justin Fields into the SEC Title Game.

HEYOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[wazzu31]

They film 205 Live right after Smackdown, so all of the fans in attendance for 205 Live are those who stayed after Smackdown to watch.

205 Live is a quality show, but there's no starpower and no cross-promotion with Raw/Smackdown anymore and that hurts it.

I know it is and the WWE bribes fans into staying by putting on a match fans will stay for right after they tape it.

I’m not saying it isnt a quality show, it just will never work nor be taken seriously because the damage has been done. Once you get the D show (or whatever below NXT would be labeled) it isn’t something IMO that show can overcome.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

If it were up to me, at Starrcade 97 I would've started the buildup to dissolving the nWo. I would've had The Giant have an impromptu match with Hall and destroy him (since Nash got a case of jobberitis). And I also would've had Sting destroy Hogan and pin him in the middle of the ring (would've saved Bret's debut for the next night on Nitro). Then I would've had there be a lot of dissension in the ranks and then build up at SuperBrawl in 98 where for the rematch, if Hogan wins, he gets the belt back but if he loses, the nWo has to permanently dissolve (like the way the WCW/ECW alliance had to do at Survivor Series 2001). Have Hogan lose, a bunch of the nWo guys beat him up (turning Hogan face), Sting makes the save along with maybe Bret or DDP and you go from there.
Or you could do a variation of it and do it like Survivor Series 2001 where you have a bunch of nWo vs WCW matches where whomever wins, the opposing side dissolves and then have Hogan lose to Sting in the main event, costing the nWo the overall victory.

 

[The Q]

Yep. No need for Bret Hart to be involved in that match. WCW forced Hart into their main event scene worse than Kirby Smart forced Justin Fields into the SEC Title Game.

HEYOOOOOOOO!!!

Stupid survivor series and Vince screwing Bret.

Thats why we got that trash ending

 

[carson]

If it were up to me, at Starrcade 97 I would've started the buildup to dissolving the nWo. I would've had The Giant have an impromptu match with Hall and destroy him (since Nash got a case of jobberitis). And I also would've had Sting destroy Hogan and pin him in the middle of the ring (would've saved Bret's debut for the next night on Nitro). Then I would've had there be a lot of dissension in the ranks and then build up at SuperBrawl in 98 where for the rematch, if Hogan wins, he gets the belt back but if he loses, the nWo has to permanently dissolve (like the way the WCW/ECW alliance had to do at Survivor Series 2001). Have Hogan lose, a bunch of the nWo guys beat him up (turning Hogan face), Sting makes the save along with maybe Bret or DDP and you go from there.
Or you could do a variation of it and do it like Survivor Series 2001 where you have a bunch of nWo vs WCW matches where whomever wins, the opposing side dissolves and then have Hogan lose to Sting in the main event, costing the nWo the overall victory.

The match resulting in controversy is fine ... it just didn't need to involve Bret Hart. Hart was coming off serious heel heat in WWE, WCW teased his joining the NWO, and then he very awkwardly did a face-like move by forcing the match re-start. It didn't make sense. Sting wasn't going to start any baby-face faction to counter the NWO.

Now that I think about it, WCW should've had Sting, who was straight lone wolf status, refuse Bret's attempt to re-start and then build their feud. And it would've made sense because at that point, the company was in need of some NWO-free main event storylines.

 

[The Q]

The match resulting in controversy is fine ... it just didn't need to involve Bret Hart. Hart was coming off serious heel heat in WWE, WCW teased his joining the NWO, and then he very awkwardly did a face-like move by forcing the match re-start. It didn't make sense. Sting wasn't going to start any baby-face faction to counter the NWO.

Now that I think about it, WCW should've had Sting, who was straight lone wolf status, refuse Bret's attempt to re-start and then build their feud. And it would've made sense because at that point, the company was in need of some NWO-free main event storylines.

No. That ending was awful.

People wanted that for 18 months. And Sting barely put up any kind of offense the entire time. It made zero sense.

 

[The Q]

If it were up to me, at Starrcade 97 I would've started the buildup to dissolving the nWo. I would've had The Giant have an impromptu match with Hall and destroy him (since Nash got a case of jobberitis). And I also would've had Sting destroy Hogan and pin him in the middle of the ring (would've saved Bret's debut for the next night on Nitro). Then I would've had there be a lot of dissension in the ranks and then build up at SuperBrawl in 98 where for the rematch, if Hogan wins, he gets the belt back but if he loses, the nWo has to permanently dissolve (like the way the WCW/ECW alliance had to do at Survivor Series 2001). Have Hogan lose, a bunch of the nWo guys beat him up (turning Hogan face), Sting makes the save along with maybe Bret or DDP and you go from there.
Or you could do a variation of it and do it like Survivor Series 2001 where you have a bunch of nWo vs WCW matches where whomever wins, the opposing side dissolves and then have Hogan lose to Sting in the main event, costing the nWo the overall victory.

They really blew it cause that should've been a multi PPV main event.

I also strongly disagreed with having the giant join the NWO, but I guess the piont was to give the NWO all the biggest guns except for Flair, Luger and Sting and make it seem totally hopeless for WCW.

Yea the "face" NWO really didn't make much sense, nor did having Luger or Sting join a side. I will say the way they made Savage join the NWO was reasonable and fit the NWO stuff that was going on.

 

[returnofjakedog]

They really blew it cause that should've been a multi PPV main event.

I also strongly disagreed with having the giant join the NWO, but I guess the piont was to give the NWO all the biggest guns except for Flair, Luger and Sting and make it seem totally hopeless for WCW.

Yea the "face" NWO really didn't make much sense, nor did having Luger or Sting join a side. I will say the way they made Savage join the NWO was reasonable and fit the NWO stuff that was going on.

It might have made sense to have Savage and The Giant join the NWO considering their possible overall direction but the overall direction was at best misguided, or at worst just complete crap.
The Giant should have remaind WCW and continued the feud with Nash.
Savage teaming with Hogan was redundant and rather lame at that point. If anything, keep Savage solo. His personality was too big to be part of a permanent faction.

 

[The Q]

It might have made sense to have Savage and The Giant join the NWO considering their possible overall direction but the overall direction was at best misguided, or at worst just complete crap.
The Giant should have remaind WCW and continued the feud with Nash.
Savage teaming with Hogan was redundant and rather lame at that point. If anything, keep Savage solo. His personality was too big to be part of a permanent faction.

Fair point on Savage.

I kinda liked him as the loose cannon when he was briefly hanging out with Sting. I was just saying how Bischoff basically strong armed Savage into joining the NWO was reasonable and fit the narrative.

The Giant never made sense. He had no connection to WWF or Nash/Hall/Hogan/Dibiase. Shoudl've stayed WCW, I agree.

He's probably one of the guys who was most hurt by joining the NWO. Other guys like Steiner and Bagwell got a nice bump. He got completely lost in the shuffle. If the point was to just take away a big gun for WCW, that's fine, but it still didn't do the giant any favors.

I would've preferred they start with like 5 or 6 clear former WWF guys to keep that Invasion line going for a bit.

Plus, no 85 year old Arn freaking Anderson in a War Games match.

 

[RobToxin]

The problem with the whole Starcade finish was WCW tried to get cute.

They changed their program to try and capitalize off the Montreal Screw Job instead of just going with the story they had been building for 18 months.

And it was a colossal cluster fuck!

 

[The Q]

The problem with the whole Starcade finish was WCW tried to get cute.

They changed their program to try and capitalize off the Montreal Screw Job instead of just going with the story they had been building for 18 months.

And it was a colossal cluster fuck!

Yup. 100%

I wonder what it was supposed to be

 

[RobToxin]

Yup. 100%

I wonder what it was supposed to be

The saddest part of this is that it completely ruined some of Hogan's best work in his career.

A wrestler's best work isn't when he gets himself over. It's when he can get someone else over.

Now, sure, the aura of the character played a part, but it was Hogan's villainy that sealed the deal and made Sting (for a time) the top baby face in the entire industry despite not having one match or saying one word in a promo for close to 15-16 months.

Now, that is great work.

There were other just head-scratching moments along the way too.

What was the point of giving Luger the belt for a whole 5 days?

 

[The Q]

The saddest part of this is that it completely ruined some of Hogan's best work in his career.

A wrestler's best work isn't when he gets himself over. It's when he can get someone else over.

Now, sure, the aura of the character played a part, but it was Hogan's villainy that sealed the deal and made Sting (for a time) the top baby face in the entire industry despite not having one match or saying one word in a promo for close to 15-16 months.

Now, that is great work.

There were other just head-scratching moments along the way too.

What was the point of giving Luger the belt for a whole 5 days?

There was a lot of great work (and some terrible work) in what made sting great.

Yes he scared the daylights out of everyone. Great sell.

They gave him a story. With the bird and the kid talking at his crow sting debut.

They also made wcw look Completely retarded and inept, needing sting to save them.

The announcers dubbing him “The Franchise” as he was the very best wrestler wcw had left (and was a main event talent pre hogan and savage joining wcw).

I think hogan did enough just to get to sc97 that his work wasn’t ruined as much Sting’s work was ruined.

He was the one who was never the same after that fiasco.

 

[Toadman005]

Wow, how am I just discovering this thread. Do none of y'all listen to Conrad's podcast??

 

[returnofjakedog]

Wow, how am I just discovering this thread. Do none of y'all listen to Conrad's podcast??

Nope. Who is Conrad? I have a 2nd cousin named Conrad.