NWO do-over

[jakedog56]

I've recently rewatched the NWO introduction and some of their run in WCW in the mid-90s. It really was an incredible early run that should have taken out the WWF but stupid decisions regarding the NWO and the WCW itself, both in ring and financially killed the company (This is all already well-documented).

I was thinking about what could have been done differently that would have kept the NWO relevant, and kept WCW afloat.

*Obviously the inmates were running the asylum. This was a big problem. Hogan's creative control and Bischoff's ass kissing to the group both needed counter-balances instead of allowing them to stroke their egos and dominate as they felt like it.

*Way too many members. When the NWO started it was 3 guys- Nash, Hall, and Hogan. Over the next few years they had nearly 40 members go through the group! Probably close to 20 or so at the same time at the peak! It diluted the group and made them just seem like a group of gloating morons instead of dangerous and edgy.

*Also considering all of the personal issues, the WCW really needed a wellness program to reign in the drug abuse and partying.

Let's look at the members:
*Essential to the NWO*
-Scott Hall: the first to show up. Played the role excellently in ring / kayfabe.
-Kevin Nash: Showed up after Hall but just as essential. Not as good at getting heat on the mic as Hall but decent.
-Hulk Hogan: The mystery 3rd man who rocked the wrestling world when he was revealed.
-Eric Bishoff: Joined a bit later but played the role of the management mouthpiece to perfection.
-Syxx (X-Pac): Good in ring and played part of annoying hanger on sidekick very well.

*Good members
-Curt Henning: Great in ring and on mic. Perfect (pun intended) arrogance and cockiness for the group.
-Buff Bagwell: More arrogance. Had a great ability to piss off the crowd.
-Rick Rude: Couldn't wrestle because of injury but was very good in a body guard role. IMO they should have made him a permanent fixture next to Bishoff.
-Disco Inferno: Came in later, but could have been used more in the lackey / fall guy role.
- Scott Steiner: Also came in later. His previous persona wasn't a fit in the NWO but his Big Poppa Pump one certainly was! His tag team with Bagwell should have been kept together.
-Nick Patrick: Was great as the crooked NWO ref. He should have remained a permanent long term member.

*Part timers. Use in a couple of storylines a year but not more:
-Dennis Rodman: a good fit. They should have used him more than one storyline.
-Fake Sting: Worked well at the start but then they started using to 12 or so fake Sting angles from Sting himself. Would have maybe been better just to use Jeff Farmer as a low card guy and plug him into a Fake Sting storyline a couple times a year to create confusion and fake betrayals of the babyfaces.
Masa Chono and The Great Muta: We're brought in only to expand into the Japanese market. Worked ok on a limited basis only. Anything more was not necessary.

*Debatable, but I would probably leave them out.
-Konnan: Worked well in the NWO but could also have been used as a leader to make the luchadors more relevant which might have been better for the WCW in the long run? He is the most "could go either way" candidate.
-Jeff Jarrett: A late comer to the group. He was doomed to fail in a leadership role after Hall and Nash left. He could work well in the NWO but I feel he could have been used better elsewhere. His 4-Horsemen run was good but the purposely had an infighting storyline. I feel that leaving him with Horsemen without the friction would have been better.
-Horace Hogan: Didn't have the charisma or in ring ability but they could have played up the Hogan's nephew angle. Of course they could have also done similar with a better candidate kayfabe.

*No!! NWO members that should not have happened.
-Ted Dibiase: Early member money man who just disappeared. Bishoff was a much better fit in a similar role.
-Vincent: A long term member but was only added because of the Dibiase connection. He was a fall guy but I think Disco Inferno would have been better in that role.
-Randy Savage: Many he would argue that he was a good fit but he had already had the Superpowers run and breakup with Hogan in the WWF. Worked much better as a foil to Hogan than an ally at this point IMO.
Miss Elisabeth: Just there because of Savage but they were already divorced by then. Eh.
-Scott Norton: Scott Steiner played similar role as a better fit. Norton could have been a huge intimidator on a different heel faction in WCW instead.
-The Disciple (Brutus Beefcake): Just there because he is Hogan's childhood friend. Rude did the same role better (he could actually talk on the mic a little) and Rude couldn't do wrestling roles because of his neck injury.
-Brett Hart: Well documented that he was horribly wasted, most likely because of Hogan's backstage politics. They had the British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart (not to mention Jimmy Hart) on the roster so a Hart Foundation faction certainly would have been much better than what did happen.
-Lex Lugar: Let's face it. Lex has no discernible personality. Just keep him a high mid-card/low headliner area and leave it at that.
-Brian Adams: Didn't do anything. In a perfect world they would have gotten Brian Clarke on-board a couple years earlier and given Kronic a more relevant run.
Booker T and Stevie Ray: Neither did much in the NWO. Just leave them as Harlem Heat instead.
-David Flair: I get the betrayal angle but he did nothing in NWO.
-Sting: Joined late. Desperation move by WCW. Didn't work.
-The Giant (Big Show): Could be argued that he worked out ok in the NWO but I think a long run against Nash would have worked better since they had no other viable giants (no Reece doesn't count)
-Big Bubba Rogers (Big Bossman): A high squeeky voice with a southern accent and a round figure. Not the correct type.
-Dusty Rhodes: Same as above, only more so. He was the most anti-NWO persona and a horrible fit.
-Wallstreet (Mike Rotundo): Eh. Did nothing in the NWO.
-Louie Spicolli: Again, I think Disco Inferno would be better in the lackey/fall guy role.
-Ron and Don Harris: Late additions. Did nothing in the group.

I know this was way too long but it just goes to emphasize how truly bloated the NWO was. So many of those guys could have been used better elsewhere. They could have split the roster like Raw/Smackdown and toured separately. They could have also kept the NWO as the dominant heel group but let other groups have a bit more. It was NWO winning almost everything with some WCW led by Sting and a solo Goldberg scattered in. The 4 Horsemen were held down. The Flock was over but never allowed to compete with the top. Etc. Etc.

Lastly, the final proposal was to relocate WCW to Vegas. If Vince had been smarter and less vindictive he could have doubled his organization and ran east/west coast operations which would also allow people to leave and come back with some feeling of seperation. So much talent was wasted by Vinnie Mac. It all could have been done so much better.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Something that I found interesting.

Watch the "good enemies, better friends" table for 3.

JBL asked bischoff why after what he did with WCW, why he is not running CNN, CBS or NBC?

His answer is bs but i agree with. "Wrestling is always thought as a niche business"

 

[futballiscool]

That inital storyline was amazing. It's still my favorite angle in wresting history. I love the synchronicity of Hogan's bash at the beach promo and Austin's 316 promo being a couple weeks apart. The two biggest stars in history revolutionizing the business at the same time.. One immidatley, one retrospectively.

I agree the faction got watered down by adding too many members. The group lost its mystique and as a side effect heel turns lost all shock value during that era.

To me the biggest booking flaw was their inability to use the momentum from the NWO angle to get over new stars. As great a star as Goldberg was he was still a one dimensional babyface and DDP always felt more like an upper midcarder than a true main event talent. Other than those two it's hard to think of a talent that benefited from working with the NWO. Maybe Sting but he had already been the company's centerpiece star for close to a decade. If booked more effectively that angle could have launched the career of Jericho, Booker T, Benoit, Eddie and WCW could have competed with the WWE for another ten years.

 

[jakedog56]

Something that I found interesting.

Watch the "good enemies, better friends" table for 3.

JBL asked bischoff why after what he did with WCW, why he is not running CNN, CBS or NBC?

His answer is bs but i agree with. "Wrestling is always thought as a niche business"

Bischoff isn't wrong on that point. Listen to Cornette's podcast regarding non-wrestling persons coming into wrestling and trying to run a company. It doesn't work.

On the other side, I don't know how much Bischoff had to do with the specifics but he had a hand in financial and personal mismanagement that ran WCW into the ground. I don't know if I would want him to run my company based on his WCW run.

 

[jakedog56]

That inital storyline was amazing. It's still my favorite angle in wresting history. I love the synchronicity of Hogan's bash at the beach promo and Austin's 316 promo being a couple weeks apart. The two biggest stars in history revolutionizing the business at the same time.. One immidatley, one retrospectively.

I agree the faction got watered down by adding too many members. The group lost its mystique and as a side effect heel turns lost all shock value during that era.

To me the biggest booking flaw was their inability to use the momentum from the NWO angle to get over new stars. As great a star as Goldberg was he was still a one dimensional babyface and DDP always felt more like an upper midcarder than a true main event talent. Other than those two it's hard to think of a talent that benefited from working with the NWO. Maybe Sting but he had already been the company's centerpiece star for close to a decade. If booked more effectively that angle could have launched the career of Jericho, Booker T, Benoit, Eddie and WCW could have competed with the WWE for another ten years.

Good points on the fact that they didn't advance the careers of others. I didn't specifically think about that so much. It was a bit of a byproduct of the booking but also the egos and things like the aforementioned Hogan's creative control clause.

What specifically would you have done to keep the WCW viable?
.....and what do you think of my suggestions in regards to the NWO roster? Any differences from my list?

Interested in your opinions. Not many out there I can discuss this stuff with.

 

[futballiscool]

Good points on the fact that they didn't advance the careers of others. I didn't specifically think about that so much. It was a bit of a byproduct of the booking but also the egos and things like the aforementioned Hogan's creative control clause.

What specifically would you have done to keep the WCW viable?
.....and what do you think of my suggestions in regards to the NWO roster? Any differences from my list?

Interested in your opinions. Not many out there I can discuss this stuff with.

To me the NWO was the essential group you listed. Hall, Nash, Hogan, Bischoff and Waltman. That was the core. I think it should have stayed as close to that as possible.

As far as mistakes go, hindsight is 20/20, but looking back these are some obvious changes to make...

- I'm not Russo hater by any means as he was creative and brought a good influence to the WWE at the right time but he obviously wasn't the person to run an entire company.

- Goldberg should have kept the streak until it ran out of gas. They killed it too quickly and didn't use it to get anyone over. Imagine after another year or so of the streak they had a monster heel finally come into the company and beat him cleanly ? Instant star.

- I'll combine one of my ideas with one of yours and say Hart should have had his own stable and Jericho should have been the mouthpiece. Me and my friends were in high school at the time and weren't reading the Obsever or the Torch so this was our own take... Jericho was our favorite part of WCW in 98ish. He was such an obvious star and a Dungeon faction with Hart, Bulldog, Benoit and Jericho with Jericho eventually taking the leadership role (think like the Rock in the nation) could have given WCW a charismatic young talent to compete with the Attitude era guys. Benoit too. He might have been the best wrestler I've ever seen in the ring.


That 97-98 roster might have had the best mix of veteran star power (Hogan, Savage, Flair, Outsiders, Hart, Sting) and young talent ( the Flock, Jericho, Eddie, Mysterio, Paul Wight, Goldberg) in one company at the same time.

The New Blood/Millionaries Club stuff was a little too heavy handed. They shoul have just told traditional stories with veterans making young talent into stars.

 

[wazzu31]

Bischoff isn't wrong on that point. Listen to Cornette's podcast regarding non-wrestling persons coming into wrestling and trying to run a company. It doesn't work.

On the other side, I don't know how much Bischoff had to do with the specifics but he had a hand in financial and personal mismanagement that ran WCW into the ground. I don't know if I would want him to run my company based on his WCW run.

I actually think someone like Bischoff would've been successful at a major corporation. I disagree that he mismanaged WCW as well. He is ultimately responsible for the downfall but no matter how many mistakes he made, had USA and WWE not given in and just went with the attitude era I think WCW wins the war. Bischoff didn't have the the power to throw a real counter punch to the attitude era.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

I actually think someone like Bischoff would've been successful at a major corporation. I disagree that he mismanaged WCW as well. He is ultimately responsible for the downfall but no matter how many mistakes he made, had USA and WWE not given in and just went with the attitude era I think WCW wins the war. Bischoff didn't have the the power to throw a real counter punch to the attitude era.

My question about that would be is how would wrestling be different today? Because I think WCW was starting to slowly spiral downward and eventually would've gone under regardless.
I think that Bischoff's problem was he stole the NWO idea from Japan, milked it for all it was worth (and then some) and when it had started to fizzle out, he didn't have any good ideas to continue. Also, he saw that the Attitude Era was getting over, so he tried to do a lot of that (and of course Russo continued it as well) and the audience really didn't want that. If he had just stuck to being an alternative to the WWF and eventually cutting some of the older, expensive talent and developing guys like Benoit, Booker, etc... they possibly could've survived a bit longer.

 

[jakedog56]

I actually think someone like Bischoff would've been successful at a major corporation. I disagree that he mismanaged WCW as well. He is ultimately responsible for the downfall but no matter how many mistakes he made, had USA and WWE not given in and just went with the attitude era I think WCW wins the war. Bischoff didn't have the the power to throw a real counter punch to the attitude era.

Exactly how responsible was Bischoff for the bloated guaranteed contracts and letting the talent make storyline decisions? If the answer is that he was primarily responsible then he is largely to blame. If he isn't primarily responsible then maybe not so much.

Bischoff was a good character but I think he was too close to Hall, Nash, Hogan, and other NWO members that he let his and their egos get in the way of progress. A conflict of interest.

 

[jakedog56]

To me the NWO was the essential group you listed. Hall, Nash, Hogan, Bischoff and Waltman. That was the core. I think it should have stayed as close to that as possible.

As far as mistakes go, hindsight is 20/20, but looking back these are some obvious changes to make...

- I'm not Russo hater by any means as he was creative and brought a good influence to the WWE at the right time but he obviously wasn't the person to run an entire company.

- Goldberg should have kept the streak until it ran out of gas. They killed it too quickly and didn't use it to get anyone over. Imagine after another year or so of the streak they had a monster heel finally come into the company and beat him cleanly ? Instant star.

- I'll combine one of my ideas with one of yours and say Hart should have had his own stable and Jericho should have been the mouthpiece. Me and my friends were in high school at the time and weren't reading the Obsever or the Torch so this was our own take... Jericho was our favorite part of WCW in 98ish. He was such an obvious star and a Dungeon faction with Hart, Bulldog, Benoit and Jericho with Jericho eventually taking the leadership role (think like the Rock in the nation) could have given WCW a charismatic young talent to compete with the Attitude era guys. Benoit too. He might have been the best wrestler I've ever seen in the ring.


That 97-98 roster might have had the best mix of veteran star power (Hogan, Savage, Flair, Outsiders, Hart, Sting) and young talent ( the Flock, Jericho, Eddie, Mysterio, Paul Wight, Goldberg) in one company at the same time.

The New Blood/Millionaries Club stuff was a little too heavy handed. They shoul have just told traditional stories with veterans making young talent into stars.

Good idea on the Dungeon faction. I don't know if Hart would have allowed Jericho to take a mouthpiece role but it would have been very good.

Getting over other factions should have been a higher priority also.
*The Flock was over big time and you could have bumped them up a little. Put Raven into some world championship storylines, and maybe some tag team, tv, welterweight titles for some of the others instead of just burying them.
*The Lucadors went nowhere. Make Eddie and/or Konnan as leader/mouthpieces and let them get involved in the lower title storylines, much like The Flock.
*Lots of others that you could create other factions/storylines with, especially if you cut a bunch of guys out of the NWO.
*Along that line, the 4 Horsemen could have also been pushed a lot more. Guys like Jarrett, Henning, Rude (I know l listed them as possible NWO members but they could have worked elsewhere also). The problem being the name containing "Four" but I recall them having 5 wrestling members before (albeit part timers in that number) so you could play with that.

The point is that the WCW was very faction oriented at the time and it was working. The problem was that basically that the NWO buried everyone completely except for the top WCW "faction" led by the likes of Sting and DDP. More factions and not constantly burying them could have been a game changer.

 

[jakedog56]

Some other wrestlers that should have been pushed much more include Saturn, Kanyon, Eddie, Norton (with a manager and outside of NWO). You could probably add quite a few to the list, like your mentioning of Jericho, etc.

 

[futballiscool]

My question about that would be is how would wrestling be different today? Because I think WCW was starting to slowly spiral downward and eventually would've gone under regardless.
I think that Bischoff's problem was he stole the NWO idea from Japan, milked it for all it was worth (and then some) and when it had started to fizzle out, he didn't have any good ideas to continue. Also, he saw that the Attitude Era was getting over, so he tried to do a lot of that (and of course Russo continued it as well) and the audience really didn't want that. If he had just stuck to being an alternative to the WWF and eventually cutting some of the older, expensive talent and developing guys like Benoit, Booker, etc... they possibly could've survived a bit longer.

The NWO was definitely Bischoff's best idea but he deserves credit for the cruiserweight division (ahead of its time) and the Goldberg streak too

 

[futballiscool]

Some other wrestlers that should have been pushed much more include Saturn, Kanyon, Eddie, Norton (with a manager and outside of NWO). You could probably add quite a few to the list, like your mentioning of Jericho, etc.

This thread is making me nostalgic for mid/late 90s WCW. I was a huge fan of Kanyon and Saturn too. I might have to watch some old Nitros on the network next weekend.

I focused a lot on Jericho because he's a symbol of what went wrong in WCW. He was booked down as a low mid card/cruiserweight his entire time in the company and then the first night he showed up on Raw he gets a segment with the Rock and one of the loudest ovations of the Attitude era.

WCW wasted so much talent.

 

[The Q]

I’m gonna share so much more on this later, but as a precursor I’ll just say the giant and sting should’ve been the only 2 wcw uncorruotables.

And second, I don’t consider nwonwolfpac and all that as part of this. They were already dead when they felt the need to do that.

 

[The Q]

I've recently rewatched the NWO introduction and some of their run in WCW in the mid-90s. It really was an incredible early run that should have taken out the WWF but stupid decisions regarding the NWO and the WCW itself, both in ring and financially killed the company (This is all already well-documented).

I was thinking about what could have been done differently that would have kept the NWO relevant, and kept WCW afloat.

*Obviously the inmates were running the asylum. This was a big problem. Hogan's creative control and Bischoff's ass kissing to the group both needed counter-balances instead of allowing them to stroke their egos and dominate as they felt like it.

*Way too many members. When the NWO started it was 3 guys- Nash, Hall, and Hogan. Over the next few years they had nearly 40 members go through the group! Probably close to 20 or so at the same time at the peak! It diluted the group and made them just seem like a group of gloating morons instead of dangerous and edgy.

*Also considering all of the personal issues, the WCW really needed a wellness program to reign in the drug abuse and partying.

Let's look at the members:
*Essential to the NWO*
-Scott Hall: the first to show up. Played the role excellently in ring / kayfabe.
-Kevin Nash: Showed up after Hall but just as essential. Not as good at getting heat on the mic as Hall but decent.
-Hulk Hogan: The mystery 3rd man who rocked the wrestling world when he was revealed.
-Eric Bishoff: Joined a bit later but played the role of the management mouthpiece to perfection.
-Syxx (X-Pac): Good in ring and played part of annoying hanger on sidekick very well.

*Good members
-Curt Henning: Great in ring and on mic. Perfect (pun intended) arrogance and cockiness for the group.
-Buff Bagwell: More arrogance. Had a great ability to piss off the crowd.
-Rick Rude: Couldn't wrestle because of injury but was very good in a body guard role. IMO they should have made him a permanent fixture next to Bishoff.
-Disco Inferno: Came in later, but could have been used more in the lackey / fall guy role.
- Scott Steiner: Also came in later. His previous persona wasn't a fit in the NWO but his Big Poppa Pump one certainly was! His tag team with Bagwell should have been kept together.
-Nick Patrick: Was great as the crooked NWO ref. He should have remained a permanent long term member.

*Part timers. Use in a couple of storylines a year but not more:
-Dennis Rodman: a good fit. They should have used him more than one storyline.
-Fake Sting: Worked well at the start but then they started using to 12 or so fake Sting angles from Sting himself. Would have maybe been better just to use Jeff Farmer as a low card guy and plug him into a Fake Sting storyline a couple times a year to create confusion and fake betrayals of the babyfaces.
Masa Chono and The Great Muta: We're brought in only to expand into the Japanese market. Worked ok on a limited basis only. Anything more was not necessary.

*Debatable, but I would probably leave them out.
-Konnan: Worked well in the NWO but could also have been used as a leader to make the luchadors more relevant which might have been better for the WCW in the long run? He is the most "could go either way" candidate.
-Jeff Jarrett: A late comer to the group. He was doomed to fail in a leadership role after Hall and Nash left. He could work well in the NWO but I feel he could have been used better elsewhere. His 4-Horsemen run was good but the purposely had an infighting storyline. I feel that leaving him with Horsemen without the friction would have been better.
-Horace Hogan: Didn't have the charisma or in ring ability but they could have played up the Hogan's nephew angle. Of course they could have also done similar with a better candidate kayfabe.

*No!! NWO members that should not have happened.
-Ted Dibiase: Early member money man who just disappeared. Bishoff was a much better fit in a similar role.
-Vincent: A long term member but was only added because of the Dibiase connection. He was a fall guy but I think Disco Inferno would have been better in that role.
-Randy Savage: Many he would argue that he was a good fit but he had already had the Superpowers run and breakup with Hogan in the WWF. Worked much better as a foil to Hogan than an ally at this point IMO.
Miss Elisabeth: Just there because of Savage but they were already divorced by then. Eh.
-Scott Norton: Scott Steiner played similar role as a better fit. Norton could have been a huge intimidator on a different heel faction in WCW instead.
-The Disciple (Brutus Beefcake): Just there because he is Hogan's childhood friend. Rude did the same role better (he could actually talk on the mic a little) and Rude couldn't do wrestling roles because of his neck injury.
-Brett Hart: Well documented that he was horribly wasted, most likely because of Hogan's backstage politics. They had the British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart (not to mention Jimmy Hart) on the roster so a Hart Foundation faction certainly would have been much better than what did happen.
-Lex Lugar: Let's face it. Lex has no discernible personality. Just keep him a high mid-card/low headliner area and leave it at that.
-Brian Adams: Didn't do anything. In a perfect world they would have gotten Brian Clarke on-board a couple years earlier and given Kronic a more relevant run.
Booker T and Stevie Ray: Neither did much in the NWO. Just leave them as Harlem Heat instead.
-David Flair: I get the betrayal angle but he did nothing in NWO.
-Sting: Joined late. Desperation move by WCW. Didn't work.
-The Giant (Big Show): Could be argued that he worked out ok in the NWO but I think a long run against Nash would have worked better since they had no other viable giants (no Reece doesn't count)
-Big Bubba Rogers (Big Bossman): A high squeeky voice with a southern accent and a round figure. Not the correct type.
-Dusty Rhodes: Same as above, only more so. He was the most anti-NWO persona and a horrible fit.
-Wallstreet (Mike Rotundo): Eh. Did nothing in the NWO.
-Louie Spicolli: Again, I think Disco Inferno would be better in the lackey/fall guy role.
-Ron and Don Harris: Late additions. Did nothing in the group.

I know this was way too long but it just goes to emphasize how truly bloated the NWO was. So many of those guys could have been used better elsewhere. They could have split the roster like Raw/Smackdown and toured separately. They could have also kept the NWO as the dominant heel group but let other groups have a bit more. It was NWO winning almost everything with some WCW led by Sting and a solo Goldberg scattered in. The 4 Horsemen were held down. The Flock was over but never allowed to compete with the top. Etc. Etc.

Lastly, the final proposal was to relocate WCW to Vegas. If Vince had been smarter and less vindictive he could have doubled his organization and ran east/west coast operations which would also allow people to leave and come back with some feeling of seperation. So much talent was wasted by Vinnie Mac. It all could have been done so much better.

As much as I hate breaking up the American Males tag team, gotta agree on Bagwell. And steiner.

I could live without Syxx. 1-2-3 kid was still and always will be his best character.

I disagree with you on Millionaire Ted. He was ESSENTIAL to it early on. Especially with the level of detail they took to show the NWO as a separate organization, including the "paid" airtime with those grainy black and white clips. Frankly they should've just used him over Bishoff, but I get the Bischoff thing.

Fake Sting for 96 War Games was one of the absolute peaks of the NWO era, right up there with the leg drop on Savage. I don't know how you could mind the fake sting army after they started using the Sting dummy for pranks.

The problem with Rodman is he was a one trick pony. And he got paid a ton of money to add very little.

 

[The Q]

That inital storyline was amazing. It's still my favorite angle in wresting history. I love the synchronicity of Hogan's bash at the beach promo and Austin's 316 promo being a couple weeks apart. The two biggest stars in history revolutionizing the business at the same time.. One immidatley, one retrospectively.

I agree the faction got watered down by adding too many members. The group lost its mystique and as a side effect heel turns lost all shock value during that era.

To me the biggest booking flaw was their inability to use the momentum from the NWO angle to get over new stars. As great a star as Goldberg was he was still a one dimensional babyface and DDP always felt more like an upper midcarder than a true main event talent. Other than those two it's hard to think of a talent that benefited from working with the NWO. Maybe Sting but he had already been the company's centerpiece star for close to a decade. If booked more effectively that angle could have launched the career of Jericho, Booker T, Benoit, Eddie and WCW could have competed with the WWE for another ten years.

Agreed. They didn't need that many guys, and it just lead to far too many matches being interrupted with an 8 on 1 gang bang.

Sting somehow lost all his momentum from the year of silence after the 97 Starcarde debacle. Amazing how badly they screwed him up.

I agree that some of those guys you mentioned could've been more, but cruiserweights got no respect in pro wrestling at that time.

But the Eddie Guerrero/Mysterio 97 Halloween Havoc match might be the best one of the NWO era, minus the abysmal ending. Just a fun, non-stop action match.

 

[The Q]

Bischoff isn't wrong on that point. Listen to Cornette's podcast regarding non-wrestling persons coming into wrestling and trying to run a company. It doesn't work.

On the other side, I don't know how much Bischoff had to do with the specifics but he had a hand in financial and personal mismanagement that ran WCW into the ground. I don't know if I would want him to run my company based on his WCW run.

they wasted a ton of money on sets and minutia that really didn't add anything to the story. That was a concern. But WCW lost money before Bischoff, and they lost money after him.

 

[The Q]

Good points on the fact that they didn't advance the careers of others. I didn't specifically think about that so much. It was a bit of a byproduct of the booking but also the egos and things like the aforementioned Hogan's creative control clause.

What specifically would you have done to keep the WCW viable?
.....and what do you think of my suggestions in regards to the NWO roster? Any differences from my list?

Interested in your opinions. Not many out there I can discuss this stuff with.

Keep the NWO smaller, like you said.

one of the biggest things is not make WCW look like complete idiots every week.

Letting everything be 8 on 1 unless Sting showed up with a baseball bat is somewhat silly.

Not let the talent (Nash, Arn Anderson) do the booking.

Not screwed with the ending of 97 Starrcade and let Sting give the people what they want and beat Hogan's traitorous butt all over that arena.

NEVER done the NWO wolfpac and hollywood.

Letting some of the younger talent get more involved in the feud would've been a great way to get their careers moving forward.

 

[The Q]

This thread is making me nostalgic for mid/late 90s WCW. I was a huge fan of Kanyon and Saturn too. I might have to watch some old Nitros on the network next weekend.

I focused a lot on Jericho because he's a symbol of what went wrong in WCW. He was booked down as a low mid card/cruiserweight his entire time in the company and then the first night he showed up on Raw he gets a segment with the Rock and one of the loudest ovations of the Attitude era.

WCW wasted so much talent.

It's funny. I was never a jericho fan. He and Mysterio were always overrated IMO.

Malenko is the unheralded star of that division.

It's a shame that he had the personality of a block of wood. Just a rock solid performer.

 

[The Q]

To me the NWO was the essential group you listed. Hall, Nash, Hogan, Bischoff and Waltman. That was the core. I think it should have stayed as close to that as possible.

As far as mistakes go, hindsight is 20/20, but looking back these are some obvious changes to make...

- I'm not Russo hater by any means as he was creative and brought a good influence to the WWE at the right time but he obviously wasn't the person to run an entire company.

- Goldberg should have kept the streak until it ran out of gas. They killed it too quickly and didn't use it to get anyone over. Imagine after another year or so of the streak they had a monster heel finally come into the company and beat him cleanly ? Instant star.

- I'll combine one of my ideas with one of yours and say Hart should have had his own stable and Jericho should have been the mouthpiece. Me and my friends were in high school at the time and weren't reading the Obsever or the Torch so this was our own take... Jericho was our favorite part of WCW in 98ish. He was such an obvious star and a Dungeon faction with Hart, Bulldog, Benoit and Jericho with Jericho eventually taking the leadership role (think like the Rock in the nation) could have given WCW a charismatic young talent to compete with the Attitude era guys. Benoit too. He might have been the best wrestler I've ever seen in the ring.


That 97-98 roster might have had the best mix of veteran star power (Hogan, Savage, Flair, Outsiders, Hart, Sting) and young talent ( the Flock, Jericho, Eddie, Mysterio, Paul Wight, Goldberg) in one company at the same time.

The New Blood/Millionaries Club stuff was a little too heavy handed. They shoul have just told traditional stories with veterans making young talent into stars.

Agreed on Goldberg, and yes Hart should've basically created a new hart foundation. Adding Jericho is a fascinating idea. Interesting you mention the rock, because joining the Nation is really what (eventually made him a star). Because that's when "the rock" persona and all of his catch phrases started being created.