NWO do-over

[The Q]

I still will say the biggest mistake(s) were simple (and related).

1) The awful main event at Starrcade 97.

2) Having ZERO plan after said awful main event.

First, after everything that went down with the fear of Sting, the franchise, the guy who could win or lose the war by joining the NWO, how you do ANYTHING but let Sting kick Hogan's butt all over that arena. Hell that thing probably should've spilled out into the stands, maybe back stage. It should've been an epic contest. Instead it was like 15 minutes of mostly Hogan whooping up on the guy who he ran away from for over a year.

THEN, the terrible ending to mock the Montreal Screw Job.

THEN made it worse the next night on Nitro.

It took ALL the wind out of the sails for any more Sting/Hogan matches. Something that easily could've been milked for a few more PPVs with the Scott Hall title shot mixed in (after he won WW3). With at least ONE of those Sting/Hogan matches being an epic steel cage match that basically turns into a luberjack match with the NWO trying to bust into the cage and the Horsemen, Luger, Booker T, DDP, Faces of Fear, whoever, coming down and fighting them off (mostly because EASILY the best part of that SC97 match was all of WCW running into the ring to celebrate with Sting after hogan submitted to the death lock).

There NEVER should've even been match between them on Nitro the next night.

Second, it seemed like the plan was going to be to milk Hogan and Sting and when it went flat from their own stupidity, they had no clue what to do next.

 

[OregonDucks]

I agree. But it also could've worked. They just messed it up. Again the long term plan was for the NWO to become it's own entity, but I also have no idea how that would've worked. Would power plant guys get started getting pummeled there? When would there be good cross over matches? only at PPVs? With how thunder went down, i'm not sure it would've worked unelss the NWO members wrestled each other.

They messed it up IMO by making NWO too big and having the storyline go on for too long. I guess it would have been pretty innovative to give a group their own show, but should have just gone all in earlier in NWO existence when they were red hot.

But at the end of the day, NWO just got watered down and was super stale by what? year 2? year 3? To make things good and to keep things fresh, you got to realize all good things must come to an end and WCW failed to realize that with the NWO.

Look at WWE and Evolution (initially). Too bad Evolution made a brief return, but that initial run was perfect. The group was awesome and the group served a purpose. But the WWE realized when it needed to end and they ended it.

 

[OregonDucks]

I still will say the biggest mistake(s) were simple (and related).

1) The awful main event at Starrcade 97.

2) Having ZERO plan after said awful main event.

First, after everything that went down with the fear of Sting, the franchise, the guy who could win or lose the war by joining the NWO, how you do ANYTHING but let Sting kick Hogan's butt all over that arena. Hell that thing probably should've spilled out into the stands, maybe back stage. It should've been an epic contest. Instead it was like 15 minutes of mostly Hogan whooping up on the guy who he ran away from for over a year.

THEN, the terrible ending to mock the Montreal Screw Job.

THEN made it worse the next night on Nitro.

It took ALL the wind out of the sails for any more Sting/Hogan matches. Something that easily could've been milked for a few more PPVs with the Scott Hall title shot mixed in (after he won WW3). With at least ONE of those Sting/Hogan matches being an epic steel cage match that basically turns into a luberjack match with the NWO trying to bust into the cage and the Horsemen, Luger, Booker T, DDP, Faces of Fear, whoever, coming down and fighting them off (mostly because EASILY the best part of that SC97 match was all of WCW running into the ring to celebrate with Sting after hogan submitted to the death lock).

There NEVER should've even been match between them on Nitro the next night.

Second, it seemed like the plan was going to be to milk Hogan and Sting and when it went flat from their own stupidity, they had no clue what to do next.

The Finger Poke of Doom.

 

[The Q]

The Finger Poke of Doom.

NWO was already hurting at that point. That was just the absolutely money shot that killed it.

 

[OregonDucks]

NWO was already hurting at that point. That was just the absolutely money shot that killed it.

I just watched that clip just now. I wonder if the announcers knew what was happening because they were really really excited at the beginning of the match and doing a great job hyping it. LOL they either did a great job selling it, or they genuinely thought a big match was about to happen.

 

[The Q]

I just watched that clip just now. I wonder if the announcers knew what was happening because they were really really excited at the beginning of the match and doing a great job hyping it. LOL they either did a great job selling it, or they genuinely thought a big match was about to happen.

People had been waiting quite a few months to see that.

 

[OregonDucks]

People had been waiting quite a few months to see that.

just adds to the epic fail of it all.

 

[The Q]

just adds to the epic fail of it all.

Yup.

A huge mistake by then.

But again, they seemed to have no plan after Sting/Hogan anyway.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree they needed to add guys.

I think they should've gone after many former WWF guys to keep that going. Luger would've been a fine addition to the NWO as a 4th/5th man.

Although I did like him as Stings friend as well.

But they needed to do it more strategically. And do it within storylines, like Henning.

With how the two companies were at the time I really don't think WCW could have added anyone to keep that storyline fresh. Weren't any WWF/E free agents and Vince was creating new stars. The NWO was a great concept and storyline but it hooked with the fans (IMO) was because it was the real guys versus the Dungeon of Doom type guys WCW was going with. DDP worked because he was more realistic than 99% of what they had at the time. Had they kept it just the 3, let them fade, then when BH came over they could have revived it. Much like how it took fans a bit to accept Xpac and the New Age Outlaws were really DX.

 

[wazzu31]

This goes to the other point and is an interesting counter argument. Thunder wasn't doing well having guys like those cruiserweights on it...it's hard to justify a bump for them.

I think Thunder didn't work the exact same reason 205 live sucks donkey balls. They are "superstars" but aren't really stars or really pushed as such. If they ever crossed over over guys into feuds with top guys like Styles, Owens and Zayne 205 would work IMO. The cruiserweights were putting on great matches but were stale as hell in terms of main stream because it was the same guys fighting the same guys.

The Jericho/Goldberg feud was more entertaining than any post Hogan, Hall and Nash NWO angle IMO even though we all new Jericho would get killed if they ever actually had a match. Entertainment is entertainment regardless of size IMO. Roman sucks, not because he is the chosen one, it's because he sucks at entertaining. Cena was the perfect storm as guys watching the attitude era when he was cool had kids at the same time.

Parents will buy merch for their kids at live events but aren't buying the network so their kids can watch.

 

[The Q]

With how the two companies were at the time I really don't think WCW could have added anyone to keep that storyline fresh. Weren't any WWF/E free agents and Vince was creating new stars. The NWO was a great concept and storyline but it hooked with the fans (IMO) was because it was the real guys versus the Dungeon of Doom type guys WCW was going with. DDP worked because he was more realistic than 99% of what they had at the time. Had they kept it just the 3, let them fade, then when BH came over they could have revived it. Much like how it took fans a bit to accept Xpac and the New Age Outlaws were really DX.

I was thinking more like Luger, Macho Man, guys like that.

That way you'd have all your main event old guys in one stable and you'd HAVE to have used the young up and comers as part of the big fight to the top.

You probably never lose a Jericho if you do it like that.

 

[jakedog56]

So a lot of what is said here comes back to Hogan's creative control clause and the egos of the top 3 guys, particularly Hogan.
They had to put themselves at the top of almost every main event storyline.

It always seems a bit crazy that the guys who knew best that it was all a work seem to be the most resistant to letting the story play out. It's just like the stories of Shawn Micheals refusing to drop belts, or others like Mils Mascaras refusing to put anyone else over.

 

[The Q]

So a lot of what is said here comes back to Hogan's creative control clause and the egos of the top 3 guys, particularly Hogan.
They had to put themselves at the top of almost every main event storyline.

It always seems a bit crazy that the guys who knew best that it was all a work seem to be the most resistant to letting the story play out. It's just like the stories of Shawn Micheals refusing to drop belts, or others like Mils Mascaras refusing to put anyone else over.

They never should’ve put the big belt on michaels.

Most overrated guy ever.

And the way he did Vader was just dirty

 

[jakedog56]

They never should’ve put the big belt on michaels.

Most overrated guy ever.

And the way he did Vader was just dirty

Great in ring execution. Horrible, miserable excuse for a human being.

Plus his theme song was the WORST! I hate it with a passion.

 

[StanMarsh51]

They messed it up IMO by making NWO too big and having the storyline go on for too long. I guess it would have been pretty innovative to give a group their own show, but should have just gone all in earlier in NWO existence when they were red hot..

The issue with that though is it would've overexposed NWO to a greater degree, and you would've needed to expand the NWO anyways because having a show every week centered around Hogan-Hall-Nash would've gotta stale/redundant.

 

[The Q]

Great in ring execution. Horrible, miserable excuse for a human being.

Plus his theme song was the WORST! I hate it with a passion.

There’s better in the ring anyway.

Hell those young wcw guys we’ve been talking about were better.

Even his supposed iconic match was overrated and ruined by piper. Sharpshooter never should’ve been broken If the match was going to continue.

 

[The Q]

The issue with that though is it would've overexposed NWO to a greater degree, and you would've needed to expand the NWO anyways because having a show every week centered around Hogan-Hall-Nash would've gotta stale/redundant.

Yeah. I don’t know how they would’ve made a separate nwo show Work. The whole point of nwo was it was vs wcw. As it’s own show it would flounder

 

[futballiscool]

This covers most of our 3 page thread in an 80 second cartoon...

 

[jakedog56]

Yeah. I don’t know how they would’ve made a separate nwo show Work. The whole point of nwo was it was vs wcw. As it’s own show it would flounder

I say:
*Keep the NWO membership limited to the base 4 (Hogan, Nash, Hall, Bischoff) plus a few others, as previously covered. Maybe Scott Steiner, Bagwell, X-Pac, Rick Rude as bodyguard. With possibly the likes of Henning, Nick Patrick as schill ref, and a fall guy like Virgil or Disco. No more!

*Split the roster into 2 shows. Like Raw/Smackdown but with more overlap. Have some cross-over on a weekly basis. One doesn't have to be an NWO specific show but could focus on them.

*Find a check/balance for Hogan's creative control somehow to keep egos from running amok.

*Bigger pushes for other talent, particularly the younger guys. Don't let NWO bury everyone.

*Let other factions compete with NWO on a more even level. They could still be the top faction but let someone other than Sting/DDP/Goldberg get a good rub sometime.

*Better management control of contracts and wrestler's behavior.

Do these things with some better creative input and the run could have been much longer.

 

[jakedog56]

This covers most of our 3 page thread in an 80 second cartoon...

Funny stuff! But it really wasn't quite like that. WWF was on the verge of bankruptcy. A few more months with better control and storylines and WCW would have probably won!

Then Vince won out and essentially buried and screwed 90%+ of the WCW roster. Basically The Giant, Jericho, Mysterio and Booker T did well and everyone else was at best a disappointment. So depressing to think about what a waste it was!