Nnamdi a Niner

[Rathman44]

You guys are morons. If you know Tim Tebow is in the game in a 3rd and 1 and you know no way the coaches are going to pass the ball, why worry about "the pass". If corners are not responsible for the run, then why not put Larry Grant in for Rogers? I mean, if it's guaranteed they're not going to pass why not. The thing is, that's not their job at all whatsoever, the run to him is an "afterthought". Not my words, his!!

it's interesting how you have to use Tim Tebow (the weakest passer out there), in a very obvious running down situation (when defenses have been known to substitute in their heavy package depending on the offense' personel) to prove we are all morons for thinking that cornerbacks focus on pass defense first, stop-the-run second. haha...so comical! This just keeps getting better and better. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!

 

[BINGO]

Couldn't be more wrong. My interpretation: he was saying that you shouldn't assume you know what Nnamdi's role is going to be. This was after you declared that it's "filth" for anyone to think that Nnamdi could end up being a backup and that Culliver wouldn't be competing with him for playing time. Crimson was using stats as only a part of his justification for why Culliver should be allowed to compete with Nnamdi for playing time. At least, that was my interpretation...don't want to put words in his mouth.

I can't seem to find the part where Crimson concludes that Cully is the better cornerback. Maybe that's the conclusion you came to on your own and your inner Culliver-obsessed demons are playing tricks on you. Maybe you really like Culliver after all! Maybe you're his biggest fan! Haha I think I've figured out this madness! You're just trying to get us all to defend your favorite player, even insisting that we have all declared him to be the best cornerback ever! Dude, you love Culliver don't you!?!! I got to hand it to you BINGO, pretty brilliant! haha

No, once again you failed! He blatanlty compared the Nnamdi signing as the Colt McCoy signing as if Colt has a shot to be a starter.

Again this is the quote:

"I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be. We are returning our top-3 CBs, and our pass D was markedly better than Philly's last year. Culliver had more INTs, FFs, and PDs than Asomugha last year in limited snaps. Asomugha was one of the worst players in the league in terms of opponent rating when targeting him. It's not like we're paying him obvious starter money. Hell, he may not even make the team."

Our top 3 corner which to him (my assumption) is Brown, Rogers, and Culliver. And he went as far as him saying he may not make the team as if that is really a possibility despite the amount of cash we are paying him. Are you seriously going to cut someone with that talent for such a bargain? Anyway, getting back to the point...if you cannot read between the lines as an indicator of him comparing the performances of both Cully and Nnamdi and trying to portray Cully being the better player of the two then my friend, you really don't have nothing between the ears.

 

[BINGO]

it's interesting how you have to use Tim Tebow (the weakest passer out there), in a very obvious running down situation (when defenses have been known to substitute in their heavy package depending on the offense' personel) to prove we are all morons for thinking that cornerbacks focus on pass defense first, stop-the-run second. haha...so comical! This just keeps getting better and better. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!

Why does it matter which QB it is that I use to illustrate a point. I have to spell it out for you two like the dummy that you are for you to understand that there is no such unspoken rule out there in regard to corners not being responsible for playing the run. That's beyond lunacy!

But then again let's pretend that he did not say corners are "not responsible for the run".

Let's pretend...let's dismiss that comment entirely:

Playing the run for ANY corner is an afterthought--especially in man to man, it's not their job.

 

[Rathman44]

You with the constant side comments. The the little girl craving for attention in h.s. and can't seem to get anyone to ask her to the prom. Your such an attention whore - no one bothers to respond to you. I realy love when immature people tell you to grow up, when you're being the bigger person by blocking them or ignoring them.

Yeah, c'mon guys, lay off BINGO. He's a mature guy just trying to have an honest and sensible discussion. And he doesn't want to go to the prom with you so stop trying to get his attention and just grow up already!

 

[Rathman44]

No, once again you failed! He blatanlty compared the Nnamdi signing as the Colt McCoy signing as if Colt has a shot to be a starter.

Again this is the quote:


Our top 3 corner which to him (my assumption) is Brown, Rogers, and Culliver. And he went as far as him saying he may not make the team as if that is really a possibility despite the amount of cash we are paying him. Are you seriously going to cut someone with that talent for such a bargain? Anyway, getting back to the point...if you cannot read between the lines as an indicator of him comparing the performances of both Cully and Nnamdi and trying to portray Cully being the better player of the two then my friend, you really don't have nothing between the ears.

Instead of reading between the lines, why don't you just read his first line: I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be.
Sounds to me like he's pretty open-minded about the whole thing and isn't assuming anyone is better than anyone else. Let's just play it out and see who wins the competition in preseason - it's the Harbaugh way after all!

 

[joshuar56]

You with the constant side comments. The the little girl craving for attention in h.s. and can't seem to get anyone to ask her to the prom. Your such an attention whore - no one bothers to respond to you. I realy love when immature people tell you to grow up, when you're being the bigger person by blocking them or ignoring them.

Thanks for responding to me babe <3

 

[BINGO]

Instead of reading between the lines, why don't you just read his first line: I don't think any of us can make any judgments about what Nnamdi's role will be.
Sounds to me like he's pretty open-minded about the whole thing and isn't assuming anyone is better than anyone else. Let's just play it out and see who wins the competition in preseason - it's the Harbaugh way after all!

I would have accepted that but why go on to put up stats between those two players. What was the intent? Don't answer!! :rollseyes:

Competition? That's just talk man. We had the perfect opportunity to cut Rogers before April 1st which would have saved us a lot of cash. But yet, they chose to keep him to be our starter.

Remember, the consensus attitude here...Rogers is at the wrong side of 30 and is regressing as a player. On the other hand, Culliver is younger, more athletic, and is developing and is entering his prime. Wouldn't it make sense to cut the "overpaid" Rogers and give the position to the better player in Culliver?

So not only did our coaches decide to keep this overaged corner by paying that money, but they also sign another high profile overaged corner in Nnamdi to compete. You seriously think if there's a thing as "competion" with the Rogers and Nnamdi situation, Cully is the front runner to land the starting gig? You really think Culliver has a shot huh? Our coaches are fed up with him man. That was our achilles heel last year, and they have addressed it. And they will draft a corner in the draft as well.

 

[Rathman44]

Why does it matter which QB it is that I use to illustrate a point. I have to spell it out for you two like the dummy that you are for you to understand that there is no such unspoken rule out there in regard to corners not being responsible for playing the run. That's beyond lunacy!

But then again let's pretend that he did not say corners are "not responsible for the run".

Let's pretend...let's dismiss that comment entirely:

He has made it quite clear for you time and time again....stop trying to create an interpretation of what people are saying and just read it...it was pretty clear to the rest of us the first time he said it and even tried a few more times to explain it to you. Nevertheless you continue to have trouble understanding this:

Allow me to clarify my stance. Of course corners need to be able to help stop the run, it was never my intention to say that they don't. My stance was, and still is, that it is down on their list of priorities on ANY particular play.

And with regards to your Tebow example, in an obvious running situation with maybe only 1 wide receiver and a poor throwing QB on the field, defenses will take out their DBs and send in their heavy packages. The reason for this...because it's highly unlikely the O is going to pass and the D doesn't need these pass defenders in the game. They're better off with defenders who can primarily focus on the run, which are not cornerbacks.

 

[BINGO]

Thanks for responding to me babe <3

Anytime SugarPlum.

 

[BINGO]

He has made it quite clear for you time and time again....stop trying to create an interpretation of what people are saying and just read it...it was pretty clear to the rest of us the first time he said it and even tried a few more times to explain it to you. Nevertheless you continue to have trouble understanding this:



And with regards to your Tebow example, in an obvious running situation with maybe only 1 wide receiver and a poor throwing QB on the field, defenses will take out their DBs and send in their heavy packages. The reason for this...because it's highly unlikely the O is going to pass and the D doesn't need these pass defenders in the game. They're better off with defenders who can primarily focus on the run, which are not cornerbacks.

Wrong!!! Heavy packages or not, the corners are in. Corners are always in regardless of how "heavy" your package is. If anything there's only 3 DBs left on the field (the two corners and one safety). Even 1st and 1 on the goaline. Obvious running situation, the corner will be on the field.

 

[Rathman44]

I would have accepted that but why go on to put up stats between those two players. What was the intent? Don't answer!! :rollseyes:

Competition? That's just talk man. We had the perfect opportunity to cut Rogers before April 1st which would have saved us a lot of cash. But yet, they chose to keep him to be our starter.

Remember, the consensus attitude here...Rogers is at the wrong side of 30 and is regressing as a player. On the other hand, Culliver is younger, more athletic, and is developing and is entering his prime. Wouldn't it make sense to cut the "overpaid" Rogers and give the position to the better player in Culliver?

So not only did our coaches decide to keep this overaged corner by paying that money, but they also sign another high profile overaged corner in Nnamdi to compete. You seriously think if there's a thing as "competion" with the Rogers and Nnamdi situation, Cully is the front runner to land the starting gig? You really think Culliver has a shot huh? Our coaches are fed up with him man. That was our achilles heel last year, and they have addressed it. And they will draft a corner in the draft as well.

Once again, the stats were there to show YOU that maybe, just maybe, Culliver might be able to compete for some playing time. This is clear to everyone else but you. Think about that last statement for a while...

If we cut Rogers he would have cost us almost 5 million in dead cap space, which is why most say next year is the year to do it because the cap hit is less. Does this make sense to you? Regardless, he is good enough to compete for considerable playing time this year. It's clearly not an indication that Culliver is the most overrated backup of all time and should never be relied on, which is your point right?

Nobody has said that Culliver is the frontrunner to win the starting gig. This is either a fabrication of your imagination or a desperate lie to improve your attempt at an argument...either way it's sad.

 

[Rathman44]

Wrong!!! Heavy packages or not, the corners are in. Corners are always in regardless of how "heavy" your package is. If anything there's only 3 DBs left on the field (the two corners and one safety). Even 1st and 1 on the goaline. Obvious running situation, the corner will be on the field.

I guess that's a matter of what a team's strategy is and their personel. The teams I have played on would take out a corner and go 2 safeties and 1 CB. Regardless, the DBs are primarily there to protect against a play-action passing play. Yes, they also have to worry about the RB breaking it outside of the linebackers' outside containment or a long run up the gut, but if defending the pass wasn't a concern then they wouldn't be in there...you're right there would just be linebackers if there was no threat to pass. this is getting absurd

 

[Rathman44]

I guess that's a matter of what a team's strategy is and their personel. The teams I have played on would take out a corner and go 2 safeties and 1 CB. Regardless, the DBs are primarily there to protect against a play-action passing play. Yes, they also have to worry about the RB breaking it outside of the linebackers' outside containment or a long run up the gut, but if defending the pass wasn't a concern then they wouldn't be in there...you're right there would just be linebackers if there was no threat to pass. this is getting absurd

well, maybe not all linebackers, i'd probably still go with a couple safeties if it was totally impossible for the O to pass.

and let's not get sidetracked by this heavy package semantics debate... stick to the point...this is what you are disputing:

Originally Posted by bigninerfan56
Allow me to clarify my stance. Of course corners need to be able to help stop the run, it was never my intention to say that they don't. My stance was, and still is, that it is down on their list of priorities on ANY particular play.

you conveniently ignore this point, and continue to paint a picture where everyone thinks cornerbacks don't play a role in the run defense at all. your understanding of others' opinions is rather bizarre.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Apparently you have not been following the reports. Nnamdi was the person who made the request. He wants to prove a point that he wants to be here to compete. Washed up Randy Moss had a guaranteed contract, what makes you think like Nnamdi couldn't negotiated any sort of guaranteed in his contract. Again, it seems like you missed all the news on what transpired with the Nnamdi acquisation. Nnamdi was the one not wanting a long term deal.

I haven't read any of the articles about Nnamdi's interview. All I was particularly interested in was that he signed and what the contract was.

Look, I have no idea what he says, but I guarantee that no NFL player is going out of his way to turn down guaranteed money unless the contract is absolutely laden with incentives. This contract does have some decent incentives, and Nnamdi might have requested a shot at $3 million rather than say $2 million guaranteed, but I simply don't believe that the team offered substantially the same contract with guaranteed money and he turned it down. If you do, I've got some waterfront property I might be able to interest you in.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Our top 3 corner which to him (my assumption) is Brown, Rogers, and Culliver. And he went as far as him saying he may not make the team as if that is really a possibility despite the amount of cash we are paying him. Are you seriously going to cut someone with that talent for such a bargain? Anyway, getting back to the point...if you cannot read between the lines as an indicator of him comparing the performances of both Cully and Nnamdi and trying to portray Cully being the better player of the two then my friend, you really don't have nothing between the ears.

You are reading far more into my posts than is actually there. To an extent I was playing devil's advocate before I realized how unreasonable you really are, at least on this topic. But I stand by everything I said in the post that you quoted. Allow me to explain it.

As said, none of us know what the plan is with Asomugha. Some facts:

- He is two years removed from being one of the better man-coverage corners in the league.

- He is coming off of two poor years and is on the wrong side of 30.

- He was often put in positions over those two years that did not play to his strengths, and in fact emphasized his weaknesses.

- We should put him in more favorable positions and use him the way he should be used.

- He was given a contract that will allow us to cut him without penalty.

- If he remains on the team, he will be paid about as much as our current #4 CB.

Some of those facts make me optimistic about what he will bring. Others make me question what his role will be. He could turn out to be our best CB, or he could be our 4th or 5th best. I honestly can't say right now. If he plays the way he did in Philly last year, I don't think he starts.

My belief is that we brought Asomugha in to provide competition, primarily for Brown and Culliver on the outside. He is a low-risk (virtually none, really), high-reward pickup who could turn things around and perform the way Rogers did in 2011. But I don't think anything is certain, and I'm certainly not willing to guarantee that he will start or even that he will beat out Culliver. His contract is such that he'd be fine as our 4th guy.

I cited some of Culliver's numbers simply to say that there are some reasons - should you choose to consider them - to think that Culliver might be the better player. I didn't take a position on whether he actually is. I haven't seen nearly enough of Asomugha recently to weigh in on that. Obviously I think Culliver is more talented than you do, but that's hardly saying anything at all. We'll see if he learns from last year's miscues and returns an improved player. If he doesn't, he's not long for this team. If he does, his ceiling is pretty high. You have made up your mind on Culliver. I haven't. Please stop acting as if I have already endorsed him for the HOF.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I would have accepted that but why go on to put up stats between those two players. What was the intent? Don't answer!! :rollseyes:

Competition? That's just talk man. We had the perfect opportunity to cut Rogers before April 1st which would have saved us a lot of cash. But yet, they chose to keep him to be our starter.

Remember, the consensus attitude here...Rogers is at the wrong side of 30 and is regressing as a player. On the other hand, Culliver is younger, more athletic, and is developing and is entering his prime. Wouldn't it make sense to cut the "overpaid" Rogers and give the position to the better player in Culliver?

So not only did our coaches decide to keep this overaged corner by paying that money, but they also sign another high profile overaged corner in Nnamdi to compete. You seriously think if there's a thing as "competion" with the Rogers and Nnamdi situation, Cully is the front runner to land the starting gig? You really think Culliver has a shot huh? Our coaches are fed up with him man. That was our achilles heel last year, and they have addressed it. And they will draft a corner in the draft as well.

Rogers is still around in large part because he's by far our best slot corner. He struggled in that role at times last year, particularly covering Amendola, but we don't have anyone else who does it as well. It remains to be seen whether Rogers will be asked to take a pay cut - I believe the most recent reports are that only part of his salary became guaranteed.

I do think Culliver has a shot to beat out Asomugha, and even to end up as the starter. I wouldn't take a straight-up bet on either proposition, but of course there's a "shot." I also expect them to draft a corner.

But hey, if you're so confident Culliver has no shot at beating out Asomugha, we can place a wager on it. Give me 1,000/1 odds, and I'll put $10 on Cully. You can't lose, right?

 

[Rathman44]

You are reading far more into my posts than is actually there. To an extent I was playing devil's advocate before I realized how unreasonable you really are, at least on this topic. But I stand by everything I said in the post that you quoted. Allow me to explain it.

As said, none of us know what the plan is with Asomugha. Some facts:

- He is two years removed from being one of the better man-coverage corners in the league.

- He is coming off of two poor years and is on the wrong side of 30.

- He was often put in positions over those two years that did not play to his strengths, and in fact emphasized his weaknesses.

- We should put him in more favorable positions and use him the way he should be used.

- He was given a contract that will allow us to cut him without penalty.

- If he remains on the team, he will be paid about as much as our current #4 CB.

Some of those facts make me optimistic about what he will bring. Others make me question what his role will be. He could turn out to be our best CB, or he could be our 4th or 5th best. I honestly can't say right now. If he plays the way he did in Philly last year, I don't think he starts.

My belief is that we brought Asomugha in to provide competition, primarily for Brown and Culliver on the outside. He is a low-risk (virtually none, really), high-reward pickup who could turn things around and perform the way Rogers did in 2011. But I don't think anything is certain, and I'm certainly not willing to guarantee that he will start or even that he will beat out Culliver. His contract is such that he'd be fine as our 4th guy.

I cited some of Culliver's numbers simply to say that there are some reasons - should you choose to consider them - to think that Culliver might be the better player. I didn't take a position on whether he actually is. I haven't seen nearly enough of Asomugha recently to weigh in on that. Obviously I think Culliver is more talented than you do, but that's hardly saying anything at all. We'll see if he learns from last year's miscues and returns an improved player. If he doesn't, he's not long for this team. If he does, his ceiling is pretty high. You have made up your mind on Culliver. I haven't. Please stop acting as if I have already endorsed him for the HOF.

so....what you're telling me is that Culliver is a future Hall of Famer and you think he should start? You did use some statistics a while back so it must be true!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You guys are morons. If you know Tim Tebow is in the game in a 3rd and 1 and you know no way the coaches are going to pass the ball, why worry about "the pass". If corners are not responsible for the run, then why not put Larry Grant in for Rogers? I mean, if it's guaranteed they're not going to pass why not. The thing is, that's not their job at all whatsoever, the run to him is an "afterthought". Not my words, his!!

There is ALWAYS a chance the QB will pass the ball. Even teams running the wildcat will throw the ball sometimes. If, as you claim, there is literally no chance the other team will throw the ball, why would they line anyone up over the WRs? Why not bring them in closer and leave the WRs uncovered entirely, so as to play the run better? The answer, of course, is that the team may still throw the ball, and thus you need CBs to defend the WRs.

I don't feel particularly inclined to dive into this debate, but it's worth pointing out that the guy who is universally considered the best CB to play the game was below average against the run at best.

 

[dredinis21]

You are reading far more into my posts than is actually there. To an extent I was playing devil's advocate before I realized how unreasonable you really are, at least on this topic. But I stand by everything I said in the post that you quoted. Allow me to explain it.

As said, none of us know what the plan is with Asomugha. Some facts:

- He is two years removed from being one of the better man-coverage corners in the league.

- He is coming off of two poor years and is on the wrong side of 30.

- He was often put in positions over those two years that did not play to his strengths, and in fact emphasized his weaknesses.

- We should put him in more favorable positions and use him the way he should be used.

- He was given a contract that will allow us to cut him without penalty.

- If he remains on the team, he will be paid about as much as our current #4 CB.

Some of those facts make me optimistic about what he will bring. Others make me question what his role will be. He could turn out to be our best CB, or he could be our 4th or 5th best. I honestly can't say right now. If he plays the way he did in Philly last year, I don't think he starts.

My belief is that we brought Asomugha in to provide competition, primarily for Brown and Culliver on the outside. He is a low-risk (virtually none, really), high-reward pickup who could turn things around and perform the way Rogers did in 2011. But I don't think anything is certain, and I'm certainly not willing to guarantee that he will start or even that he will beat out Culliver. His contract is such that he'd be fine as our 4th guy.

I cited some of Culliver's numbers simply to say that there are some reasons - should you choose to consider them - to think that Culliver might be the better player. I didn't take a position on whether he actually is. I haven't seen nearly enough of Asomugha recently to weigh in on that. Obviously I think Culliver is more talented than you do, but that's hardly saying anything at all. We'll see if he learns from last year's miscues and returns an improved player. If he doesn't, he's not long for this team. If he does, his ceiling is pretty high. You have made up your mind on Culliver. I haven't. Please stop acting as if I have already endorsed him for the HOF.

^^^This.

 

[sjballer03]

You are reading far more into my posts than is actually there. To an extent I was playing devil's advocate before I realized how unreasonable you really are, at least on this topic. But I stand by everything I said in the post that you quoted. Allow me to explain it.

As said, none of us know what the plan is with Asomugha. Some facts:

- He is two years removed from being one of the better man-coverage corners in the league.

- He is coming off of two poor years and is on the wrong side of 30.

- He was often put in positions over those two years that did not play to his strengths, and in fact emphasized his weaknesses.

- We should put him in more favorable positions and use him the way he should be used.

- He was given a contract that will allow us to cut him without penalty.

- If he remains on the team, he will be paid about as much as our current #4 CB.

Some of those facts make me optimistic about what he will bring. Others make me question what his role will be. He could turn out to be our best CB, or he could be our 4th or 5th best. I honestly can't say right now. If he plays the way he did in Philly last year, I don't think he starts.

My belief is that we brought Asomugha in to provide competition, primarily for Brown and Culliver on the outside. He is a low-risk (virtually none, really), high-reward pickup who could turn things around and perform the way Rogers did in 2011. But I don't think anything is certain, and I'm certainly not willing to guarantee that he will start or even that he will beat out Culliver. His contract is such that he'd be fine as our 4th guy.

I cited some of Culliver's numbers simply to say that there are some reasons - should you choose to consider them - to think that Culliver might be the better player. I didn't take a position on whether he actually is. I haven't seen nearly enough of Asomugha recently to weigh in on that. Obviously I think Culliver is more talented than you do, but that's hardly saying anything at all. We'll see if he learns from last year's miscues and returns an improved player. If he doesn't, he's not long for this team. If he does, his ceiling is pretty high. You have made up your mind on Culliver. I haven't. Please stop acting as if I have already endorsed him for the HOF.

Well said!