NFL Draft / College football

[numone9er]

It's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I'm not a fan of Delanie Walker, but not I'm spending a 1st round pick on a fucking #2 TE.

Unless it's Gronk Nation.

Sorry if i missed it clyde (which I'm sure i have) but who are you rooting for us to take with our 1st?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Sorry if i missed it clyde (which I'm sure i have) but who are you rooting for us to take with our 1st?

I haven't made my big board yet, but a guy I'm really rooting for is Courtney Upshaw, but it's really unlikely he falls that far.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

And which rounds were Gronk and Hernandez drafted in?

That really shouldnt have an impact on the stategy though. Just because a team hits a home run in the later rounds doesnt mean it should count against that type of play.


Hypothetically, If New England wouldve drafted Gronk at 22 that year(instead of trading it) and Hernandez at 27(instead of Devin McCourty) it wouldve still have been great selections.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Just some #2 TE info here I'll throw out.

snaps played / total snaps

Hernandez: 795 / 1,088 73.1%
Walker: 558 / 994 56.1%

 

[CalamityX11]

It's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I'm not a fan of Delanie Walker, but not I'm spending a 1st round pick on a fucking #2 TE.

Unless it's Gronk Nation.

ok, good. Thought I was getting out of touch with common sense....

 

[michaelwarner]

And which rounds were Gronk and Hernandez drafted in?

I respect your opinion Clyde. And certainly there are players that could drop that are better than the top TE's. But don't you think that if anyone knew how great those two guys would be in that offense that they would be drafted higher than the 2nd and the 4th?

I've read enough comments by the vets on this(and the old board) to know that people place value on premium positions, and rightfully so.

But Harbaugh has shown that he can make multiple TE's weapons. That raises the value of a 2nd TE to me.

But I totally get your feeling on this.

 

[I_am_1z]

Here's an interesting guy to watch

 

[clyde_carbon]

That really shouldnt have an impact on the stategy though. Just because a team hits a home run in the later rounds doesnt mean it should count against that type of play.


Hypothetically, If New England wouldve drafted Gronk at 22 that year(instead of trading it) and Hernandez at 27(instead of Devin McCourty) it wouldve still have been great selections.

Of course it has an impact on the strategy. Why would we draft our impact TE in the first round when everyone is drafting theirs later in the draft? And we're not even talking about a #1 TE, we're talking about a #2 TE. Sounds like a GREAT use of our resources.

Rob Gronkowski was a 2nd rounder. Aaron Hernandez was a 4th rounder. Jimmy Graham was a 3rd rounder. Jermichael Finley was a 3rd rounder.

And really, which team in the NFL, other than the Pats, have a better #1 and #2 TEs than we do? Who would you rather have than Davis/Walker as a TE duo?

Furthermore, the talk that Harbaugh loves two pass catching TEs is nonsense. He likes to two sets in a power-running scheme. At Stanford his #2 TE had 20 catches, 206 yards, and 1 TD in 2010, 11 catches, 149 yards, and 3 TDs in 2009, and 17 catches, 145 yards, and 1 TD in 2008.

To summarize:

1- You want to draft a TE in the first round.
2- That TE would be, at best, the #2 TE on the team.
3- There is only one team in the NFL that has a better TE duo than we already do.
4- Most of the best TEs in the NFL have been drafted after the 1st round.
5. In Harbaugh's last 3 years at Stanford, his #2 TEs have combined for 48 yards, 500 yards, and 5 TDs.

So instead of going for a WR, a pass-rusher, a CB, or even a stud OL let's go for a #2 TE. Sounds like a plan!

 

[clyde_carbon]

I respect your opinion Clyde. And certainly there are players that could drop that are better than the top TE's. But don't you think that if anyone knew how great those two guys would be in that offense that they would be drafted higher than the 2nd and the 4th?

I've read enough comments by the vets on this(and the old board) to know that people place value on premium positions, and rightfully so.

But Harbaugh has shown that he can make multiple TE's weapons. That raises the value of a 2nd TE to me.

But I totally get your feeling on this.

Really? When?

Is there any reason why Delanie Walker can't be that "weapon"?

 

[CalamityX11]

lol yeah, cause Harbs rarely used Walker in the offense... lol

 

[Flyingiguana]

Really? When?

Is there any reason why Delanie Walker can't be that "weapon"?

he's always had problems with drops. he can be a weapon and had 1 or 2 big games this year, but too inconsistent and garbage as a blocker.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

Of course it has an impact on the strategy. Why would we draft our impact TE in the first round when everyone is drafting theirs later in the draft? And we're not even talking about a #1 TE, we're talking about a #2 TE. Sounds like a GREAT use of our resources.

Rob Gronkowski was a 2nd rounder. Aaron Hernandez was a 4th rounder. Jimmy Graham was a 3rd rounder. Jermichael Finley was a 3rd rounder.

I really do not like this argument. Its saying because some players were drafted later, then we should do the same, even if they turn out to be really good. You can say this for almost any position its kind of saying that Gronk and Grahamn for example arent worth a first round pick.

And really, which team in the NFL, other than the Pats, have a better #1 and #2 TEs than we do? Who would you rather have than Davis/Walker as a TE duo?

Furthermore, the talk that Harbaugh loves two pass catching TEs is nonsense. He likes to two sets in a power-running scheme. At Stanford his #2 TE had 20 catches, 206 yards, and 1 TD in 2010, 11 catches, 149 yards, and 3 TDs in 2009, and 17 catches, 145 yards, and 1 TD in 2008.

MUCH better argument.

To summarize:

1- You want to draft a TE in the first round.

-I havent said either way that I want to go TE or not in the 1st round, I'm just not ruling it out because I can see both sides.

4- Most of the best TEs in the NFL have been drafted after the 1st round.

This is more a problem with evaluations then. TEs are definitely worth a 1st round pick. Just gotta select the right one.

So instead of going for a WR, a pass-rusher, a CB, or even a stud OL let's go for a #2 TE. Sounds like a plan!

I know we have different philosophies on position value. If a TE is there at number 30, that rates out a pretty good amount better then a receiver, I would have no problem selecting the TE.

 

[clyde_carbon]

he's always had problems with drops. he can be a weapon and had 1 or 2 big games this year, but too inconsistent and garbage as a blocker.

So is Aaron Hernandez.

When was the last time a team had two TEs that were not only threats as pass-catchers, but are also great blockers?

And honestly, we don't need Walker to be a great blocking TE. Davis is a great blocker. If we need more blocking, we send in our #3 TE. Or Alex Boone. Or Isaac Sopoaga. Or Justin Smith.

 

[NinerSickness]

If we need more blocking, we send in our #3 TE. Or Alex Boone. Or Isaac Sopoaga. Or Justin Smith.

Maybe Boone or Sopoaga. Justin Smith showed that he simply doesn't know how to block IMO.

I don't think Walker is all that good of a receiver or blocker, and I think a second dynamic TE who can do both would be a great addition to the offense. But one has to consider bang for yer buck of course.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Maybe Boone or Sopoaga. Justin Smith showed that he simply doesn't know how to block IMO.

I don't think Walker is all that good of a receiver or blocker, and I think a second dynamic TE who can do both would be a great addition to the offense. But one has to consider bang for yer buck of course.

Of course it would be great for the offense. But history has shown that you can find that outside the first round relatively easily. And quite frankly it's a luxury not a necessity at this point.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I really do not like this argument. Its saying because some players were drafted later, then we should do the same, even if they turn out to be really good. You can say this for almost any position its kind of saying that Gronk and Grahamn for example arent worth a first round pick.

You don't like this argument because you don't value positions differently ,or you don't consider positional hierarchy when drafting, or you're using hindsight as basis for your argument. Of course Gronk and Graham are worth first round picks. But they're arguably the #1 and #2 TEs in the league. We're talking about drafting a #2 TE, not Gronk or Graham.

-I havent said either way that I want to go TE or not in the 1st round, I'm just not ruling it out because I can see both sides.

Sure, I'm not ruling it out either. I'm not ruling out Kicker either if there are no WRs, QBs, OL, DL, LBs, S, CBs, or RBs available that worthy of that pick.

This is more a problem with evaluations then. TEs are definitely worth a 1st round pick. Just gotta select the right one.

Nobody here is arguing that TEs aren't worth first round picks. Are you sure you know what you're debating?

I know we have different philosophies on position value. If a TE is there at number 30, that rates out a pretty good amount better then a receiver, I would have no problem selecting the TE.

So you'd rather have a #2 TE than a #2 WR?

 

[NinerSickness]

Of course it would be great for the offense. But history has shown that you can find that outside the first round relatively easily. And quite frankly it's a luxury not a necessity at this point.

I wouldn't call it relatively easily, but you can certainly find it outside the first round. I actually wanted Jimmy Graham in the 3rd (Pozz was even more outspoken about him), but of course Bowman was a great pick...

The only TE I like at 30 is Dwaaaaaaaaayne, and that's only if the likes of Konz, Glenn, Perry, Kirkpatrick & a few others are gone. Fleener & the guy from Georgia are 2nd rounders IMO.

Do you see any TEs who will be available in round 3 who could probably do better than Walker?

 

[clyde_carbon]

I wouldn't call it relatively easily, but you can certainly find it outside the first round. I actually wanted Jimmy Graham in the 3rd (Pozz was even more outspoken about him), but of course Bowman was a great pick...

The only TE I like at 30 is Dwaaaaaaaaayne, and that's only if the likes of Konz, Glenn, Perry, Kirkpatrick & a few others are gone. Fleener & the guy from Georgia are 2nd rounders IMO.

Do you see any TEs who will be available in round 3 who could probably do better than Walker?

Compared to WR, CB, QB, or pass-rushers, I'd say it is relatively easier to find a TE later in the draft. Especially if we're talking about a #2 TE.

Sure I do. Ladarius Green is a guy that really intrigues me in the mid-rounds.

 

[clyde_carbon]

 

[NinerSickness]

I didn't get a chance to see any of his games this season. But he's listed at 6'6 230. That isn't a big red flag for you? Would you expect him to gain some weight?