NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[fightinfunbags]

I agree but don't kid yourself......don't make it and lose by a FG or less and he gets crushed for it.

I can’t speak for others but I would have to see the play and the execution to see who was responsible for the failure. The thing that I like is that Shanahan broke tendency there. Unless I’m mistaken, he goes for it on 4th down fewer times than the average coach. Andy Reid found offensive success in the 2H by breaking tendencies. So did Spags on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[shopson67]

I only said that because former Ohio State qb McCord is an Orange.

and even with the hate, he's the best the Orange have had in a while

 

[dtgold88]

They didn’t have a competent QB? Why did he make the Pro Bowl team? Why did he get MVP votes to finish top 5?

You can say that about a great many football games. The Chiefs weren’t world beaters this year. They have legitimate holes and issues that revealed themselves in the regular season. It wasn’t a pick em game . The Niners were favored for a reason. As per usual, Kyle Shanahan had a double digit lead in a big game that he blew. They are without a doubt chokers. This was absolutely a chocking situation.

I wasn’t talking about them. I’m talking about the franchise that has lost 4 NFC Championship games and 3 Super Bowls since 2012. This is what they do. They choke.

The Niners choked

any credit to KC or nah?

Is Shanny a better coach if no ST gaffe and they win? If the defensive guys on the field do their jobs?

 

[shopson67]

I can’t speak for others but I would have to see the play and the execution to see who was responsible for the failure. The thing that I like is that Shanahan broke tendency there. Unless I’m mistaken, he goes for it on 4th down fewer times than the average coach. Andy Reid found offensive success in the 2H by breaking tendencies. So did Spags on the defensive side of the ball.

Niners tried to on defense by blitzing and largely failed.

 

[dtgold88]

Playoff OT is not finite. They might as well not even keep a game clock. It really doesn’t matter.

Only reason they might is maybe they have a half time if they play 2 periods? If no actual half time do they at least give the ball to the team who did not get it first when 2 periods end?

 

[dtgold88]

Did they have a double digit lead? Did they intercept the ball and take over at mid field on the first possession of the 2nd half? Did they have the ball first in OT with a a chance to score a TD? The Niners choked as they have done repeatedly since 2012. This is who they are. This is their DNA. They’re front runners and when adversity punches them in the mouth they blink. Over and over and over again.

I mean they are definitely known to struggle when they fall behind, especially still behind heading into 4th qtr. Did they forget who they were though late against GB and Detroit? Or they only choke if ahead....in the SB?

 

[bksballer89]

Only reason I can think of is IF both teams do same thing on first drives you get first crack in sudden death. Guess that's somewhat legit.

Problem is if the team who score 2nd is going for 2 likely all the time. Only way to prevent that is pray your defense hold them to 3. Most importantly just like with college ot, when you get the ball 2nd the game is easier to control. You know what you need and you have 4 downs to work with

 

[dtgold88]

Mahomes said the chiefs would have went for 2 if sf scored a td.

This is the play with these ot rules.

1) never receive if you win the toss

2) if you need a td to tie then just go for 2 to avoid the sudden death part of ot

Easy to say but not sure as easy to do when faced with the actual situation...especially with an automatic K like Butker.

That said, if he's telling the truth it happens and they fail guess what happens? They get reemed for it.

 

[dtgold88]

Are you sure? Kyle Shanahan is widely considered to be an offensive genius and one of the best offensive coaches in football. You’re telling me that guy had a long halftime and he didn’t come out with a plan to take advantage of the defense?

They needed 7s not 3s. They couldn’t get 7s because the offense that ranked third this season in the league on 3rd down conversion rate at 49% went 3-12 on 3rd down. This is consistent with the pattern established by the offensive genius in his career coaching big games.

One team had an elite offense to go with that elite defense. The Chiefs just scored 17 against another elite defense in Baltimore. The Chiefs haven’t been elite on offense all year. The Chiefs had a bottom 10 rush defense using yards per rush as a metric. The Niners have the best RB in the game and were one of the best rush teams in football. That’s a huge advantage they failed to take advantage of. That’s somebody puckering in the biggest of spots. That’s a choke.

And yet as per usual when the going gets tough and the adversity hits the Niners find a way to lose the contest as they’ve done 4 times in NFC championship games and 3 times in Super Bowls since 2012.

This is who they are. If they didn’t win this year with everything breaking right for them when are they ever going to get over the hump?

This was absolutely a choking situation. Deebo had 33 receiving yards. Kittle had 4 receiving yards. The Niners coach and the Niners stars were complete no shows.

does this mean they forget who they are in divisional rounds?

 

[dtgold88]

My reference to Big Boy football was stated to counter what I deemed to be a middle school everybody gets a trophy approach to sports that doesn’t hold a coach accountable for habitual failings. Hes the constant in variables that extend to different franchises and different teams for the same franchise.

but not in divisional rounds?

Just curious as I'm asking for the second time now......any credit to KC and their coach (and players) who are trying to stop SF?

 

[dtgold88]

I can’t speak for others but I would have to see the play and the execution to see who was responsible for the failure. The thing that I like is that Shanahan broke tendency there. Unless I’m mistaken, he goes for it on 4th down fewer times than the average coach. Andy Reid found offensive success in the 2H by breaking tendencies. So did Spags on the defensive side of the ball.

I see...on that one play you need to see the execution by the players. Otherwise it's on the coach and not the players (and of course not because of the other team and their coach/players)?

 

[bksballer89]

If true this is a lame take. He was targeted 6x which is solid

 

[dtgold88]

Problem is if the team who score 2nd is going for 2 likely all the time. Only way to prevent that is pray your defense hold them to 3. Most importantly just like with college ot, when you get the ball 2nd the game is easier to control. You know what you need and you have 4 downs to work with

Yeah I'm not so sure they are going for 2 'all the time" but I guess if I had the word of the other coach and he promised he'd go for 2 that makes a difference.......but this is not taking into account the very real possibility of each team kicking a FG or not scoring at all.

 

[bksballer89]

Easy to say but not sure as easy to do when faced with the actual situation...especially with an automatic K like Butker.

That said, if he's telling the truth it happens and they fail guess what happens? They get reemed for it.

I doubt it. Next score wins

You don’t get a much better chance to win a game than having a ball at the 2 yd line

 

[dtgold88]

It’s a choke when a franchise and the franchise’s coach habitually lose in these big games with the bright lights on and it’s good vs good. Shanahan is great when he can front run and he has a wide personnel advantage over the opponent. Shanahan ball is beating an overwhelmed squad in the regular season by 3 TDs. When his team faces adversity they fall short. It’s all the time.

He’s been the QB on the best team in football all season. It’s pretty convenient to lay this at his feet when he actually played pretty well last night.

Hypotheticals are useless when we have actually results, data, and evidence in front of us.

Couple things....

1) don't lay it at all at the feet of the QB but make sure the coach is nearly entirely to blame?

2) without seeing it you really cannot say if KC would not win as many games with Purdy at QB as opposed to Mahomes? Do you feel the same about your team? If so, why pay Hurts and not just bring in a lower priced vet?

 

[dtgold88]

Losing a td lead at halftime will never be a choke lol. This is like saying losing a 1 run lead in the 5th or 6th inning is a choke in baseball

agree with your premise but wouldn't say can never be a choke with a 1 score lead at the half or do you just mean for the coach?

 

[dtgold88]

A choke is when the game is set up for your success and you don’t deliver. And when you put that in the context of Shanahan’s history as an NFL coach and the Niners perpetual futility in the biggest games the pattern also lends itself to a “choke”.

why do you think he forgets all of this in divisional rounds?

 

[dtgold88]

It very well could be in your example. What’s the situation? Who did the manager go to in the bullpen? Did players make errors? Did players in advantageous counts spit on fastballs they could drive? You have to look at the entire context. The Niners led by 10 and let the Chiefs off the hook. The Niners were the better team and they had the most one sided matchup in the game. Shanahan allowed the Chiefs fronts to dictate his play calling instead of him going into his system deep with run plays and formations. He didn’t even really make them stop the run. He was successful (3+ yards) on over 2/3 of their called run plays last night.

They let them off the hoof because of the HC when they committed a ST gaffe and the defense forgot how to get stops? Is it on any of the defensive players or the DC?

 

[dtgold88]

Losing a basically pick em game to the GOAT QB is not what that word means, especially when they didn't blow some huge lead. I'm aware you won't ever change your opinion, but your opinion is wrong. You're using the word wrong.

Yeah...it's disappointing and sucks (sorry as I know you know this) but choke? And pretty much just on the HC? I assume he's a coach who gives his DC autonomy for the most part, correct? If so, shouldn't some blame fall on him and those players who could not stop arguably the best QB in the sport?

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah...it's disappointing and sucks (sorry as I know you know this) but choke? And pretty much just on the HC? I assume he's a coach who gives his DC autonomy for the most part, correct? If so, shouldn't some blame fall on him and those players who could not stop arguably the best QB in the sport?

In a game and matchup this close most of the 'blame' is randomness. Play that game 10 times and the Niners win 5. But the one that mattered, KC won and good for them. I'm not a die hard Niners fan by any means. Wanted them to win for my friends who are, and for the city to be happy. Now I gotta deal with endless bitching on sports radio.