NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[Stakesarehigh]

Yeah...he should have run more but he chose to hold the ball too long and take sacks or throw it away.

On those last 2 drives with possessions dwindling should they have run more?

I always heard from Blame the coach guy "get Chubb 20 carries and we win"....he had 24.

31 passes in this game was dumb yes.

The problem on the last drive was zero sense of urgency. 30 seconds between plays down 7 points. So that I would definitely say was instructed.

 

[dtgold88]

Again, none of my comments are to hold HC blameless for this game. I'm just not one of the many who feels better by ripping the coach after every loss.

He shares in this loss for sure. I think those who want him gone are going to be disappointed as I think he gets a full season (or at least the start) with Watson next year as he should. I mean, the guy is 25-23 and has had a franchise QB for all of 4 of those games (and he was out nearly 2 years and played 2 games in awful weather). Likely the seat for stefanski will at least be a little warm next year. Even more so if he chooses to bring back Woods (and it is his choice)..

Can it really be true all 23 losses are on the coach but the 25 wins are the players?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Seriously? They were used a lot yesterday. Sometimes both in backfield, sometimes one split out...hell the failed 4th down earlier was a handoff with both in backfield.

I say all this knowing Blame the Coach guy feels better about losses when he can blame the coach.

It was a general comment because they rarely used it this year.

End of the day Watson very much had a ton of rust and the offense was good at moving the ball (note not finishing drives) for much of the year.

Do I think Stefanski deserves one more year? Yea....but would it hurt my feelings if he got fired? Not really. 2 straight years of poor results with the kind of team they have.

Losing a ton of close games often comes down to coaching and execution

 

[dtgold88]

31 passes in this game was dumb yes.

The problem on the last drive was zero sense of urgency. 30 seconds between plays down 7 points. So that I would definitely say was instructed.

Cool.....but 15 of the passes were on the last 2 drives and they managed to mix in a bunch of runs (maybe 10?)

agree on the urgency, but some of the urgency is players figuring out the play and getting set. I say that realizing we must blame coach for everything.

I'd say another problem on the last drive might have been 2 dropped potential TD passes and taking a sack on 4th down, but that's me.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Wait a minute. Just a few weeks ago you said Carr wasn't the problem. That all the Raiders issues are with Josh McD. Why change your tune now?

In DJ’s defense, he said he wanted Carr gone before the extension but he said he wanted them to start Mariota…so there’s that

 

[dtgold88]

It was a general comment because they rarely used it this year.

End of the day Watson very much had a ton of rust and the offense was good at moving the ball (note not finishing drives) for much of the year.

Do I think Stefanski deserves one more year? Yea....but would it hurt my feelings if he got fired? Not really. 2 straight years of poor results with the kind of team they have.

Losing a ton of close games often comes down to coaching and execution

Yes. Coaching AND execution. By reading many of these comments it seems it's only coaching.

2020 happened and I get a while ago but shows what can happen when players execute. I get if results are winning or losing not what we wanted but with the backup QB and a healthy Baker in 2020 we had a top 10 offense both years. I have to believe if Watson can get back to his old self Stefanski and the O will be more than fine. If not? Then, sure, he needs to go.

D was another story and as mentioned if it's Stenaksi's choice and he keeps Woods then it's on him if the D is not good next year.

 

[thunderc]

Pretty cool to have football and basketball both today

 

[Shanemansj13]

Oh hell yes......calling for dropped passes in EZ - twice - on final drive was beyond dumb. The slip and fall in EZ call on the perfect pass earlier was also beyond foolish. Finally, the hold the ball for 5.5 seconds and take a sack on the final play was just idiotic

While I can agree not Stefanski's best day (and agree Woods should go) can a player ever mess up in your world?

I knew you would mention dropped passes, in those conditions, it is expected. Things you can’t control. You control playcalling. These team is not disciplined.

You keep defending this bad coaching staff. I believe you stuck up for Woods too in the past bc he had a “top 10 defense”. Problem was the eye test said otherwise. I’ve been saying it for years. The point is overall coaching has lost many games for them this year-of course a lot of factors go into games but if ypu watched the games, which I am sure you have, then you would agree.

When did I ever say players didn’t mess up? Coaching the difference in that game. Yes, coaching has an impact on players bc if you do not use the players to their strengths it isn’t using the player to the best ability.

Example, lining Watson under center and Chubb getting a head of steam has been the most effective, right? So lets run slow draws and counters out of shotguns…that totally makes. It’s Stefanski as a whole, he just isn’t suited to be a head coach. His time is up imo. You can agree to disagree but he hasn’t been good most of the season.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Cool.....but 15 of the passes were on the last 2 drives and they managed to mix in a bunch of runs (maybe 10?)

agree on the urgency, but some of the urgency is players figuring out the play and getting set. I say that realizing we must blame coach for everything.

I'd say another problem on the last drive might have been 2 dropped potential TD passes and taking a sack on 4th down, but that's me.

I don't believe I said the players deserve no blame.

Watson didn't make quick decisions and the receivers were brutal. But frustration with the staff comes on the 2 drives before the last one.

1st and ten on the NO side of the field...2 deep balls after a 2 yard run. Just get fucking yards. They end up punting and netting all of about 20 yards.

Next drive...3rd and 2 and AGAIN the deep ball TWICE

Just get the yards man.

And then yes...players and coaches both with the fail on getting the damn plays going on the last drive.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That being said, I think Stefanski will get another chance next season

 

[Black Adam]

In DJ’s defense, he said he wanted Carr gone before the extension but he said he wanted them to start Mariota…so there’s that

Huh, how IS Mariota doing in Hotlanta these days...?

 

[tlance]

Huh, how IS Mariota doing in Hotlanta these days...?

Benched for Ridder

So not well.

 

[dtgold88]

I knew you would mention dropped passes, in those conditions, it is expected. Things you can’t control. You control playcalling. These team is not disciplined.

You keep defending this bad coaching staff. I believe you stuck up for Woods too in the past bc he had a “top 10 defense”. Problem was the eye test said otherwise. I’ve been saying it for years. The point is overall coaching has lost many games for them this year-of course a lot of factors go into games but if ypu watched the games, which I am sure you have, then you would agree.

When did I ever say players didn’t mess up? Coaching the difference in that game. Yes, coaching has an impact on players bc if you do not use the players to their strengths it isn’t using the player to the best ability.

Example, lining Watson under center and Chubb getting a head of steam has been the most effective, right? So lets run slow draws and counters out of shotguns…that totally makes. It’s Stefanski as a whole, he just isn’t suited to be a head coach. His time is up imo. You can agree to disagree but he hasn’t been good most of the season.

Passes in your hands are not things a player can control as to whether he catches it or not...but if he drops it the guy who certainly cannot control it - the coach - is to be blamed? It's not that I defend the coaches I just realize the players matter, too. Blame the Coach Guy well, blames the coach for all that goes wrong. There are more of those guys this season as last year many just blamed Baker for anything that went wrong.

I love the "eye test" being used when what really happened says your eyes failed you. I stuck up for not firing Woods after last season because, yes, we had a top 5 defense (not just top 10). Know who said top 5? It was PFF. Know what their eyes do? They watch every player on every play and grade each player/unit on their contribution to each play. Did your eyes from only the angle showed by the networ tell you more than the guys who are paid to do this who watch the all 22 on each play?

The D gave up 16 or less in 9 games last year which is kind of good. Did they give up more when your eyes watched?

Now this year was different and the D was often the reason we lost (though you managed to blame the coach of the O, as well, even though we were at time top 10 or even top 5 in points scored). If Woods is retained and it is Stefanski's call his seat goes from warm to hot to start next year.

It's not that you have said players never mess up it's that you blame the coaches pretty much any time the players mess up. Catch an onside kick and make a FG end of game (Jets and LA) that is 2 more wins. You blamed the HC for each loss. Of the 25 wins since he got here were any because of the coach or only the losses?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yes. Coaching AND execution. By reading many of these comments it seems it's only coaching.

2020 happened and I get a while ago but shows what can happen when players execute. I get if results are winning or losing not what we wanted but with the backup QB and a healthy Baker in 2020 we had a top 10 offense both years. I have to believe if Watson can get back to his old self Stefanski and the O will be more than fine. If not? Then, sure, he needs to go.

D was another story and as mentioned if it's Stenaksi's choice and he keeps Woods then it's on him if the D is not good next year.

I think coaching is the main issue…not just playcalling but as a whole but the Browns have a lot of issues.

I don’t believe using the top 10 offense works here. Great OL and Chubb can make something out of nothing. You can get away with a lot. Sure, Stefanski had to cater to Baker’s play and Watson is still coming along but I don’t he is a head coach is my issue. An OC that can focus on offensive playcalling seems like the role that fits him.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

That being said, I think Stefanski will get another chance next season

Almost certainly. The personnel is lined up with his scheme.

 

[Sportsguy9695]

Just went for a nice 7 mile run christmas run outside which was my second 7 mile run of the day. So I won’t feel soo bad when I stuff my face tonight at the dessert table

 

[dtgold88]

I think coaching is the main issue…not just playcalling but as a whole but the Browns have a lot of issues.

I don’t believe using the top 10 offense works here. Great OL and Chubb can make something out of nothing. You can get away with a lot. Sure, Stefanski had to cater to Baker’s play and Watson is still coming along but I don’t he is a head coach is my issue. An OC that can focus on offensive playcalling seems like the role that fits him.

Haha.....as I said. Play well and do your jobs? Players. Don't open holes and run well, drop passes, etc? Coaches. You don't even hide the double standard, at least.

FYI, I don't mean to disregard your opinion as you are entitled and certainly not crazy to think the HC should go after a season like this. But the playcaller thing is so overblown. You think, what, on D he is still staring at his play sheet and thinking up plays? Even though he has a headset on, he is not paying attention to the D listening to what the defensive calls are?

During practice he spends the entire time with the O and looking at the call sheet? Even though those in the practices say otherwise and he is in meetings for all the units while AVP is allowed to run the O and help make up the gameplan?

don't recall how old you are but I am 100% certain the same was thought of for Belichick when he was here only on the defensive side of the ball. He was 20-28 after year 3 and most fans wanted him gone well before that. At worst, stefanski finishes year 3 at 25-25.

No, before you do as most would and say I am claiming he will be Belichick and have his success that is not what I'm saying. what I am saying is fans were the same then and wanted arguably the GOAT coach gone without giving him the chance to learn from mistakes and grow as a coach. Now if we had a franchise level QB and were playing like this or if he started, say, 20-28 (like Bill) as opposed to 25-23? I might be more on board with moving on from him.

 

[dtgold88]

Almost certainly. The personnel is lined up with his scheme.

I think IF they wanted him out he runs a similar scheme to many. They could either find such a coach or bring in a coach who will fit his scheme to the players (as I actually think Stefanski does). doubt the scheme is or will be the same with Watson as it was with JB or Baker. wasn't even the same with JB as it was with Baker.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I

In DJ’s defense, he said he wanted Carr gone before the extension but he said he wanted them to start Mariota…so there’s that

Said we could upgrade the QB position and trade Carr last offseason when a lot of teams needed a QB and get into the Watson sweepstakes.

Nothing wrong with trying to upgrade the position just like the Browns did.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Not sure I remember saying trade Carr and start Mariota but if I did....it was to save cap space and use the money to improve other areas like the OL and defense.