NBA Finals: Cleveland Cavs VS Golden State Warriors

[tlance]

Are you crazy? Prime Malone, Prime Stockton, Shandon Anderson, Byron Russell, bench loaded with big men, ... If Stockton or Malone could just hit a clutch jumper in a big game then maybe things would have been different. I'm not saying your comparison doesn't hold a little weight but that Jazz team was loaded. You put that Jazz roster in today's NBA vs teams with todays cap and they'd probably win 73 games.

They were very good, but 73 wins? You are basically saying their roster was stronger than Golden State's today. That is not even close to being true. Stockton and Malone were great and they had some good role players, but let's not get carried away here.

 

[gohusk]

They were very good, but 73 wins? You are basically saying their roster was stronger than Golden State's today. That is not even close to being true. Stockton and Malone were great and they had some good role players, but let's not get carried away here.

It was a different era. That team punished opponents. I'm not bagging the W's because the cap was different but you couldn't put together that team today. The cap wouldn't allow it. You couldn't put together the bulls team. I'd take this Cavs team over the W's today as well and they didn't make the finals:

1991-92 Cleveland Cavaliers

You just can't put together rosters like this anymore.

 

[CodeBreaker]

@Heatles84 is 100% correct.

It is not true.

Since the Warriors clinched their spot in the NBA Finals, a fun note to share has been that Varejao was now “guaranteed” a championship ring. This is false. If the Warriors win, he gets one. If the Cavs win, he’s not guaranteed anything. Dan Gilbert and the Cavaliers could choose to give him a ring based on his decade-plus of service to the team and the fact that he was on the team until February, but would you expect Dan Gilbert to do the right thing? This is the guy who… well… he traded Anderson Varejao in the first place.
14 hours ago – via The Big Lea

Thanks. Yea I missed that part.

 

[tlance]

It was a different era. That team punished opponents. I'm not bagging the W's because the cap was different but you couldn't put together that team today. The cap wouldn't allow it. You couldn't put together the bulls team. I'd take this Cavs team over the W's today as well and they didn't make the finals:

1991-92 Cleveland Cavaliers

You just can't put together rosters like this anymore.

Funny, because you could say the same thing about the Warriors. They are young, but curry's insane contract has allowed them to stockpile an insane amount of talent.

 

[tlance]

Funny, because you could say the same thing about the Warriors. They are young, but curry's insane contract has allowed them to stockpile an insane amount of talent.

Also the real culprit today is not as much the cap as it is stupid GMs overpaying. The market value on players is what it is only because someone out there is willing to overpay. On that Cavs team, Price and Nance were making less than 1.5 million, yet they were both well established vets. Both would be near max players today. Some of their other talented players like Kerr and Brandon were still on rookie type deals also.

This is why I laugh at people who want to blame the players every time the league has to go back to collective bargaining. The state of the player salaries today is 100% on the owners. If nobody were willing to offer good, not great players like DeRozan, Tristan Thompson and Enes Kanter these crazy deals, then it would not be the market price. If LeBron is worth 25 million, then players like Kanter and Thompson should be worth 5-8.

 

[bksballer89]

When I said the Cavs could be this era Jazz, I only said that because losing to the Warriors back to back years is exactly what the Jazz did in the late 90's when the Bulls defeated them in back to back yrs

 

[gordontrue]

When I said the Cavs could be this era Jazz, I only said that because losing to the Warriors back to back years is exactly what the Jazz did in the late 90's when the Bulls defeated them in back to back yrs

I think most of us understood just fine

 

[bksballer89]

I think most of us understood just fine

@gohusk is special.....and not in a good way

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[gordontrue]

Warning.... lengthy post incoming.

TLDR; I'm curious whether the Cavs will stick with their scheme of trapping Curry and trying to force Dray & Iggy to make the plays... or whether they'll follow the Spurs/Thunder route of switching everything and playing them straight up.

I rewatched some of last years Finals and some of the 2 matchups from this season.

What I'm curious about after watching those games is how the Cavs are going to approach the match-up defensively.

Yesterday LeBron said (referring to Curry and Klay) :
"It's hard to contain them. We all know that, the whole league knows that, our team knows that. But we have a game plan and we have to follow it and be true to it"

So what is this game plan?

In the Finals last year and in both of the matchups this year they did the same thing. They chose moments to trap Curry (and Klay at times) with two guys and forced Dryamond to be the release point (deliberately leaving him as the open man). This was effective in the Finals and in the Christmas day game (though the Cavs still lost in a close game, due in part to going 4 - 30 from the 3PT line). Draymond becomes the decision maker in this situation and he does pretty well in that role. But the Cavs would stay home on Curry & Thompson. Draymond then had the choice of driving to the bucket on Mozgov/TT AND/OR of hitting Iggy/Barnes for an open 3 when their man was forced to rotate to Draymond. Not bad options but much better for the Cavs than Klay/Curry getting shots up.

In the January game in CLE, however... the Warriors seemed more prepared for the scheme. Rather than staying stationary once the ball was in an open Draymond's hands... they kept moving. A lot of backdoor cuts by Iggy... also Bogut & Iggy would do this thing where as soon as Curry passed out of the trap... they would come screen for Curry freeing him up while the two guys trapping him were turned back with their attention now on Draymond. Cavs defensive effort was really bad but the Warriors movement and calculated response to the Cavs scheme was the biggest reason for the blowout, imo.

IF you remember.... LeBron and Lue were engaged in what seemed to be a pretty heated discussion on the bench in the 4th quarter of the blowout. Media blasted it as part of their "LeBron hates Blatt" campaign. Couple months later... Lue was aksed about it and said that they were talking about how to guard Curry. I'm guessing some of the staff/players felt like the scheme wasn't working and they needed to adjust... while others felt like they just needed to execute the scheme better.

So it will be interesting to see what they do. Will they stick with Blatt's scheme that worked pretty well during the Finals for the first few games but got exploited in the last game they played. Or will they try to follow the plan laid out by Pop and then Donovan... which is to switch on everything and play them straight up. This worked for the Thunder very well... but they have an athletic length that no one else does. Then again, the Spurs pulled it off rather effectively in a couple games this season with very different personnel.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Warning.... lengthy post incoming.

That is what we call a 'Wiggy warning'

 

[Shanemansj13]

When I said the Cavs could be this era Jazz, I only said that because losing to the Warriors back to back years is exactly what the Jazz did in the late 90's when the Bulls defeated them in back to back yrs

Maybe but if you look at everything I don't think that is a good comparison. The core of that team and the greats had been together for 7-8 years and they got to the WCF 3 or 4 times before making it to the Finals. They had veteran guys, the Cavs had a pretty young core besides Lebron. Malone and Stockton were 34 or 35 by this time, crazy to think about. I know your comparison was losing two straight Finals to a team but they are different situations especially since half the team for Cleveland was hurt and they still went to a Game 6. I don't think the comparison will be to that Jazz team even if they lose and that team was filled with veterans.

 

[bksballer89]

Warning.... lengthy post incoming.

This was when I stopped reading

 

[Shanemansj13]

Warning.... lengthy post incoming.

TLDR; I'm curious whether the Cavs will stick with their scheme of trapping Curry and trying to force Dray & Iggy to make the plays... or whether they'll follow the Spurs/Thunder route of switching everything and playing them straight up.

I rewatched some of last years Finals and some of the 2 matchups from this season.

What I'm curious about after watching those games is how the Cavs are going to approach the match-up defensively.

Yesterday LeBron said (referring to Curry and Klay) :
"It's hard to contain them. We all know that, the whole league knows that, our team knows that. But we have a game plan and we have to follow it and be true to it"

So what is this game plan?

In the Finals last year and in both of the matchups this year they did the same thing. They chose moments to trap Curry (and Klay at times) with two guys and forced Dryamond to be the release point (deliberately leaving him as the open man). This was effective in the Finals and in the Christmas day game (though the Cavs still lost in a close game, due in part to going 4 - 30 from the 3PT line). Draymond becomes the decision maker in this situation and he does pretty well in that role. But the Cavs would stay home on Curry & Thompson. Draymond then had the choice of driving to the bucket on Mozgov/TT AND/OR of hitting Iggy/Barnes for an open 3 when their man was forced to rotate to Draymond. Not bad options but much better for the Cavs than Klay/Curry getting shots up.

In the January game in CLE, however... the Warriors seemed more prepared for the scheme. Rather than staying stationary once the ball was in an open Draymond's hands... they kept moving. A lot of backdoor cuts by Iggy... also Bogut & Iggy would do this thing where as soon as Curry passed out of the trap... they would come screen for Curry freeing him up while the two guys trapping him were turned back with their attention now on Draymond. Cavs defensive effort was really bad but the Warriors movement and calculated response to the Cavs scheme was the biggest reason for the blowout, imo.

IF you remember.... LeBron and Lue were engaged in what seemed to be a pretty heated discussion on the bench in the 4th quarter of the blowout. Media blasted it as part of their "LeBron hates Blatt" campaign. Couple months later... Lue was aksed about it and said that they were talking about how to guard Curry. I'm guessing some of the staff/players felt like the scheme wasn't working and they needed to adjust... while others felt like they just needed to execute the scheme better.

So it will be interesting to see what they do. Will they stick with Blatt's scheme that worked pretty well during the Finals for the first few games but got exploited in the last game they played. Or will they try to follow the plan laid out by Pop and then Donovan... which is to switch on everything and play them straight up. This worked for the Thunder very well... but they have an athletic length that no one else does. Then again, the Spurs pulled it off rather effectively in a couple games this season with very different personnel.

Well I am thinking that could be their plan but they will switch up the plan and make adjustments at certain times in the game. Their plan has to be good but their offense has to be great and the shooting does too to win this series. I would much rather have Green have a tough 2 or pass it to a guy other than Curry or Klay than Curry or Klay light it up. I think a huge key will be trying to get Green in foul trouble and even Bogut.

So one more flagrant and Green gets suspended, huh? I see the Cavs trying to get him frustrated.

 

[Heatles84]

I thought gohusk quit on basketball because it was rigged and the NBA didn't want to see them in the Finals.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I thought gohusk quit on basketball because it was rigged and the NBA didn't want to see them in the Finals.

Those are called pussy fans and/or bandwagon fans. When they are losing you give up on them, when they are winning they act like they are the number 1 fan.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Those are called pussy fans and/or bandwagon fans. When they are losing you give up on them, when they are winning they act like they are the number 1 fan.

I didn't watch a single minute of basketball during the regular season unless I begrudgingly saw it on SportsCenter, but now I'm super-duper Cavs fan numero uno. I know everything about them ever.

I once met Craig Ehlo, so suck on that, fuckers.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I didn't watch a single minute of basketball during the regular season unless I begrudgingly saw it on SportsCenter, but now I'm super-duper Cavs fan numero uno. I know everything about them ever.

I once met Craig Ehlo, so suck on that, fuckers.

But you didn't give up on them and abandon them when they were losing and you probably know more about your team than that idiot

 

[gordontrue]

Those are called pussy fans and/or bandwagon fans. When they are losing you give up on them, when they are winning they act like they are the number 1 fan.

Guy at church the other day asked me why I was a Cavs fan. Told him I was really a LeBron fan and have followed him for 13 years and he said "oh, ok so what you're REALLY saying is you're a BANDWAGON fan".

Didn't bother me, I get it all time. I've long since accepted that label.

It was just hilarious to me in this situation because this guy is a Dallas-native "Mavs fan" who hasn't uttered a single word about the Mavs since early last season, owns 2 month-old Warriors jerseys, and has Warriors paraphernalia and decals littered all over his car.

This is the first time in LeBron's 7 Finals appearances that the opposing fanbase (generally speaking) is WAY more representative of bandwagoning than LeBron's.

I like it.

 

[Black Adam]

Guy at church the other day asked me why I was a Cavs fan. Told him I was really a LeBron fan and have followed him for 13 years and he said "oh, ok so what you're REALLY saying is you're a BANDWAGON fan".

Didn't bother me, I get it all time. I've long since accepted that label.

It was just hilarious to me in this situation because this guy is a Dallas-native "Mavs fan" who hasn't uttered a single word about the Mavs since early last season, owns 2 month-old Warriors jerseys, and has Warriors paraphernalia and decals littered all over his car.

This is the first time in LeBron's 7 Finals appearances that the opposing fanbase (generally speaking) is WAY more representative of bandwagoning than LeBron's.

I like it.

yeah, but...it's STILL LeBron James...