My Top 30 Current NBA Players

[tlance]

As a Warriors fan, you seem quite convinced that Klay's role won't change, but when you consider the roles of the likes of Kevin Love and Chris Bosh having being drastically reduced to mere that of spot-up shooters - As a more neutral fan, I've got to see it first before I rank him as a susperstar-level player...I've got to see that Klay will maintain a similar effectiveness.

And quite frankly, unless their names happen to be Magic, Kareem, and James Worthy - I'm probably not going to rank a set of three teammates in the top ten at the same time.

That is an apples to oranges comparison. Bosh and Love played 3rd wheel to two ball dominant scorers. Their "role" took hits because volume was greatly reduced. That will likely not be the case with Klay because the Warriors move the ball. He will still get his touches and when he is open, he will shoot it. Sure, he might not get the same number of shots he did last year, but he is not going to be marginalized either. I will bet anything on that.

As for Love, his stock has taken such a drastic hit because he sucks defensively AND he is not getting enough volume where he is effective. As a dynamic 2 way player who defenses must account for his mere presence, there is no comparison between Klay and Love.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That is an apples to oranges comparison. Bosh and Love played 3rd wheel to two ball dominant scorers. Their "role" took hits because volume was greatly reduced. That will likely not be the case with Klay because the Warriors move the ball. He will still get his touches and when he is open, he will shoot it. Sure, he might not get the same number of shots he did last year, but he is not going to be marginalized either. I will bet anything on that.

As for Love, his stock has taken such a drastic hit because he sucks defensively AND he is not getting enough volume where he is effective. As a dynamic 2 way player who defenses must account for his mere presence, there is no comparison between Klay and Love.

LOL

Dude- you think Klay could go for 25 and 15? Klay Thompson is a good player. Kevin Love is one of the most versatile and unique big men to ever play in the NBA. Klay is the epitome of a great 3 and D player. Doesnt really put the ball on the floor that well- and we have no clue if he could be the "man" scoring on his own when he doesnt have the greatest 3 point shooter in world history spreading the floor for him.

in 2015- Love joined Bird as the only players in NBA history to average 10 boards and make over 600 3 pointers. Love is now up to well over 700. No player in NBA history has combined outside shooting with elite rebounding like Kevin Love has. On top of that- he is also one of the best passing big men in the league- and is without a doubt the best outlet passer in NBA History since Wes Unseld.

I KNOW that with monumental defensive attention Kevin Love can go out and put up a season stat line of 26 and 12 and 3. Of course Love's role has suffered playing with the King of the NBA- and one of the NBA's biggest up and coming stars in Kyrie Irving- who also both happen to double as 2 of the 5 or 6 best iso players in the league (when they want to go iso).

David Blatt - before he was fired- said it "will be either me or Love". It was clear that he had no clue how to integrate Love into the game. Lue did a much better job- but trying to make such wholesale changes takes time.

Last weekend I got bombed at a wedding- and one of my buddies was in town from Huntington Beach. USed to talk a lot of basketball with him- but not so much since he moved out to Cali a few years back. He said he thought the Cavs were going to win the title- and pointed to the game where Steph pulled that 35 footer out of his ass to win in OKC. He then said he watched the Cavs go into OKC without Kyrie and just own them- (with LeBron continuing his OWNERSHIP of Durant) with Love having one of the best games he has had in a Cavs uniform.

anyway- to make a long story short- Klay is in a system and plays with guys that clearly elevate his game. Up until Lue took over- and even then since its hard to change on the fly- Love has played in a system that limits his touches and can stunt his game at times.

I would take Klay on the Cavs over Love because he would clearly be the better fit---- but if I was starting a team and had one guy to build my team around and had no star player- Id take Love over Klay and not think twice.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Another wiggy rant. Boy, being a lawyer must mean you've got a ton of time on your hands.

 

[Black Adam]

Another wiggy rant. Boy, being a lawyer must mean you've got a ton of time on your hands.

I loved the part where he went on for three or four paragraphs and literally said "to make a long story short". brevity is NOT in the boy's repertoire. it's just that plain and simple...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

but if I was starting a team and had one guy to build my team around and had no star player- Id take Love over Klay and not think twice.

Oh wow.

 

[CitySushi]

If Klay is a system player, would Ray Allen and Reggie Miller be system players? Because they do the exact same things.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If Klay is a system player, would Ray Allen and Reggie Miller be system players? Because they do the exact same things.

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were the best guys on their teams. at least n their primes.

Klay? obviously hugely benefits from BOTH the system- AND having the greatest 3 point shooter of all time spacing for him.

I definitely do not think Klay is anywhere near the player Ray Allen or Miller were and I think if Klay was the #1 guy and garnered the attention that other #1 guys do like a Harden or a Melo his efficiency would plummet.

He is the top of the food chain 3 and D guy. Still- I believe he would be an all star and one of the top 25 or so guys out there right now.

Klay has no where near the mid range game that Reggie had either- and Reggie could run around picks all day--- Richard Hamilton to me is the best poor man reggie comp.

 

[CitySushi]

Ray Allen and Reggie Miller were the best guys on their teams. at least n their primes.

Klay? obviously hugely benefits from BOTH the system- AND having the greatest 3 point shooter of all time spacing for him.

I definitely do not think Klay is anywhere near the player Ray Allen or Miller were and I think if Klay was the #1 guy and garnered the attention that other #1 guys do like a Harden or a Melo his efficiency would plummet.

He is the top of the food chain 3 and D guy. Still- I believe he would be an all star and one of the top 25 or so guys out there right now.

Klay has no where near the mid range game that Reggie had either- and Reggie could run around picks all day--- Richard Hamilton to me is the best poor man reggie comp.

I'm not gonna argue with your stance on Reggie and Ray because that's your opinion and that's absolutely fine.

The thing I take issue is that you make it seem like Klay is just standing in the corner waiting for scraps. The dude is constantly in motion in the offense. He's also guarding the best perimeter player every night on the opposing team. He runs more distance than any Warriors on the team.

Watch Klay actually play the game. He's running high low screens and baseline cuts. He's weaving in and out of the lane to get open looks. He's arguably the second best shooter in the entire NBA, so you don't think teams are playing up on him? Klay's not just standing around waiting for Curry or Draymond to set him up. He's constantly moving and creating space. 3 and D guys typically camp out and are last resorts after the stars get caught up. Klay has plays run for him specifically, and he also has gotten very good at going to the basket.

As for the mid-range, I would definitely argue against it, but there's not real tangible evidence other than the eye test. So again if that's your opinion, I won't argue against it.

Let's put it this way, you're knocking Klay for not putting up numbers on a bad team when he is obviously capable of it based on his skill set. If you put him on a bad team, you don't think he could average 25?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm not gonna argue with your stance on Reggie and Ray because that's your opinion and that's absolutely fine.

The thing I take issue is that you make it seem like Klay is just standing in the corner waiting for scraps. The dude is constantly in motion in the offense. He's also guarding the best perimeter player every night on the opposing team. He runs more distance than any Warriors on the team.

Watch Klay actually play the game. He's running high low screens and baseline cuts. He's weaving in and out of the lane to get open looks. He's arguably the second best shooter in the entire NBA, so you don't think teams are playing up on him? Klay's not just standing around waiting for Curry or Draymond to set him up. He's constantly moving and creating space. 3 and D guys typically camp out and are last resorts after the stars get caught up. Klay has plays run for him specifically, and he also has gotten very good at going to the basket.

As for the mid-range, I would definitely argue against it, but there's not real tangible evidence other than the eye test. So again if that's your opinion, I won't argue against it.

Let's put it this way, you're knocking Klay for not putting up numbers on a bad team when he is obviously capable of it based on his skill set. If you put him on a bad team, you don't think he could average 25?

I am knocking him because I dont think he is a lead guy. Do you?

 

[CitySushi]

I am knocking him because I dont think he is a lead guy. Do you?

Depends what your definition of lead guy is. He could be a lead guy for a bad team like Kevin Love or Kyrie Irving. (not looking to pick a fight those were just the first two that came to mind) Or he could be a great #2 on a Championship team.

Do I believe he's capable of being the star of a championship team? Absolutely not. But if you put him on say any team not the Warriors, Cavs, Spurs or Clippers, he's easily the second best player, if not the best player on some of those teams. That's hardly a person you could consider as an elite 3 and D player.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Depends what your definition of lead guy is. He could be a lead guy for a bad team like Kevin Love or Kyrie Irving. (not looking to pick a fight those were just the first two that came to mind) Or he could be a great #2 on a Championship team.

Do I believe he's capable of being the star of a championship team? Absolutely not. But if you put him on say any team not the Warriors, Cavs, Spurs or Clippers, he's easily the second best player, if not the best player on some of those teams. That's hardly a person you could consider as an elite 3 and D player.

Kyrie his rookie year had some insanely good ratios and efficiency for a guy that was 19 years old, and garnered the lions share of the defensive attention from the other team. I dont think Klay could do that- be the man with the ball in his hand and have the offense revolve around him. He is not that type of player. While he is not a "role" player per se- I think that is by far where his strength lies when it comes down to it- having said that- i also have him as a bonafide all star and very very good player so please dont take my criticism as i dont think he is good- obviously he is not only good but great.

I dont really have the time right now- but tonight i am- goingto go to basketball reference and check out some mid-range numbers---they have the % of guys shots from X feet to the basket. etc.

I just dont see Klay as a guy who could be the #1 player on a team- hes not a playmaker, and he doesnt put the ball on the floor that well. Hes not a Richard Hamilton or a Reggie Miller that needs to be guarded around a million picks anywhere on the floor. He benefits from playing with the best shooter in history spreading the floor for him.

If you switched Khris middleton and klay thompson- i dont think there would be an overwhelming difference at all with the Warriors.

 

[CitySushi]

Kyrie his rookie year had some insanely good ratios and efficiency for a guy that was 19 years old, and garnered the lions share of the defensive attention from the other team. I dont think Klay could do that- be the man with the ball in his hand and have the offense revolve around him. He is not that type of player. While he is not a "role" player per se- I think that is by far where his strength lies when it comes down to it- having said that- i also have him as a bonafide all star and very very good player so please dont take my criticism as i dont think he is good- obviously he is not only good but great.

I dont really have the time right now- but tonight i am- goingto go to basketball reference and check out some mid-range numbers---they have the % of guys shots from X feet to the basket. etc.

I just dont see Klay as a guy who could be the #1 player on a team- hes not a playmaker, and he doesnt put the ball on the floor that well. Hes not a Richard Hamilton or a Reggie Miller that needs to be guarded around a million picks anywhere on the floor. He benefits from playing with the best shooter in history spreading the floor for him.

If you switched Khris middleton and klay thompson- i dont think there would be an overwhelming difference at all with the Warriors.

I have no issues with anything you posted other than the bolded. Middleton is a fantastic player, but he doesn't provide what the Warriors need more than Klay. There would be a significant drop off on the offensive end of the court.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I have no issues with anything you posted other than the bolded. Middleton is a fantastic player, but he doesn't provide what the Warriors need more than Klay. There would be a significant drop off on the offensive end of the court.

middleton did shoot 40% from 3 on a team where he was pretty much the only outside shooting threat- and as the teams leading scorer he without a doubt garnered the most attention defensively.

You dont think that going from an awful shooting team and having to be the high scorer- to being a 2nd or 3rd option and seeing more open shots ina month than he did all season- would not substantially increase Middleton's efficiency?

I think Klay is the better shooter without a doubt- but i think Middleton is the better athlete and defender....while I agree I have Klay as a better player- i dont think there is nearly the difference in talent that is perceived due to where they play, their teammates, etc. At over 4 assists per game Middleton obviously has some solid playmaking skills as well compared to Klays 2.3

 

[CitySushi]

middleton did shoot 40% from 3 on a team where he was pretty much the only outside shooting threat- and as the teams leading scorer he without a doubt garnered the most attention defensively.

You dont think that going from an awful shooting team and having to be the high scorer- to being a 2nd or 3rd option and seeing more open shots ina month than he did all season- would not substantially increase Middleton's efficiency?

I think Klay is the better shooter without a doubt- but i think Middleton is the better athlete and defender....while I agree I have Klay as a better player- i dont think there is nearly the difference in talent that is perceived due to where they play, their teammates, etc. At over 4 assists per game Middleton obviously has some solid playmaking skills as well compared to Klays 2.3

I think maybe it just boils down to perception. I agree from a numbers standpoint, your assessment of the two being similar is probably more correct than not. Just from watching Middleton's game (albeit limited), Klay's game seems much better overall. Again just my opinion.

 

[CitySushi]

@WiggyRuss

I think my overall premise is that it's unfair to judge a player based on having to be a #1. There were plenty of #1 guys who didn't have nearly the impact a #2 had on a great team. Kyrie is the best example of this. Tons of talent, but had to do it all on his own, which didn't lead to much success. But it was undoubted at the time he was a #1 option. Now being the #2, his game is still very similar pre-Lebron, but he's having much more success in terms of winning. Same I think can be said of Klay. If you put him on a bad team, there's no doubt in my mind he would average 25 a game, even with the amount of attention. This would simply be so because he'd be relied upon to that guy. It would cut his efficiency, but that's the case with all 1-man shows.

Take Kevin Love off the Cavs and put him on another bad team and he immediately becomes a #1 option again. He'd put up 25 and 13 every game, but again they wouldn't have much more success. Yet he's still the same player in terms of talent. Judging based on winning or opportunity, devalues the players themselves.

If you put Klay on say Brooklyn, do you doubt he would average 25 a game?

 

[WiggyRuss]

@WiggyRuss

I think my overall premise is that it's unfair to judge a player based on having to be a #1. There were plenty of #1 guys who didn't have nearly the impact a #2 had on a great team. Kyrie is the best example of this. Tons of talent, but had to do it all on his own, which didn't lead to much success. But it was undoubted at the time he was a #1 option. Now being the #2, his game is still very similar pre-Lebron, but he's having much more success in terms of winning. Same I think can be said of Klay. If you put him on a bad team, there's no doubt in my mind he would average 25 a game, even with the amount of attention. This would simply be so because he'd be relied upon to that guy. It would cut his efficiency, but that's the case with all 1-man shows.

Take Kevin Love off the Cavs and put him on another bad team and he immediately becomes a #1 option again. He'd put up 25 and 13 every game, but again they wouldn't have much more success. Yet he's still the same player in terms of talent. Judging based on winning or opportunity, devalues the players themselves.

If you put Klay on say Brooklyn, do you doubt he would average 25 a game?

I think you could take Kevin Love and put him on a team like Boston- and he would be both extremely good and the team would win.

I think Klay could possibly put up 25 on a bad team if he forced it- but i think his efficiency would plummet. I think e actually has a better chance putting up big time point totals on a team like GSW where he doesnt get tons of defensive attention and can just rain from3 .

Does he still shoot 40% from 3 on the NEts? I just think that klay NEEDS teammates to set him up and - while that doesnt make him a role player per se- it makes him dependent on his teammates.

the elite scorers in the league like lebron, curry, kyrie, harden, melo, can get theirs whenever and wherever they want. I just dont think Klay is that type of guy. I think if Klay played on Brooklyn and over the course of a season had 2 guys shadowing him the whole time- and took the kind of pounding that goes with the responsibility of grinding out 25 points a gamei t would wear on him- its completely different than taking what comes to you and taking advantage of playing with other great players-in particular other great shooters that space the floor for you.

Magic Johnson said Kyrie deserved the ROY award over a very competitive Ricky Rubio because Kyrie was doing what he was doing getting the lions share of defensive attention and having to put the team on his back every night at the age of 19-- and Kyrie's offensive efficiency that year was OFF THE CHARTS for a rookie guard. I dont think Klay is capable of that.


the morei think about it- the more i think what iam trying to say is that Klay Thompson does not scare me nearly as much as some other players. Klay thomspon can without a doubt bomb you out of the game- but if you put a guy in his face and make him get off the 3 pt line he just cant really beat you any other way- at least not in any substantial way.

 

[CitySushi]

I think you could take Kevin Love and put him on a team like Boston- and he would be both extremely good and the team would win.

I think Klay could possibly put up 25 on a bad team if he forced it- but i think his efficiency would plummet. I think e actually has a better chance putting up big time point totals on a team like GSW where he doesnt get tons of defensive attention and can just rain from3 .

Does he still shoot 40% from 3 on the NEts? I just think that klay NEEDS teammates to set him up and - while that doesnt make him a role player per se- it makes him dependent on his teammates.

the elite scorers in the league like lebron, curry, kyrie, harden, melo, can get theirs whenever and wherever they want. I just dont think Klay is that type of guy. I think if Klay played on Brooklyn and over the course of a season had 2 guys shadowing him the whole time- and took the kind of pounding that goes with the responsibility of grinding out 25 points a gamei t would wear on him- its completely different than taking what comes to you and taking advantage of playing with other great players-in particular other great shooters that space the floor for you.

Magic Johnson said Kyrie deserved the ROY award over a very competitive Ricky Rubio because Kyrie was doing what he was doing getting the lions share of defensive attention and having to put the team on his back every night at the age of 19-- and Kyrie's offensive efficiency that year was OFF THE CHARTS for a rookie guard. I dont think Klay is capable of that.

My last 2 cents on the matter:

See and that's the very thing about Reggie, Rip and Ray is that they were completely dependent on their teammates as well. None of those guys did much with the ball squarely in their hands. Those guys were completely dependent on teammates as well. It's not a fair argument to say that those guys produced, while Klay would be incapable of doing the same given the same opportunities they had.

Given that Boston is already very good with Thomas, Horford, Crowder and Bradley, it would be very realistic to assume they would keep winning adding another player like Love. If you put Klay on the Grizzlies, do you think they would win more games? Absolutely. But again in your scenario Love is not, and would not be the dominant one on the team. Neither would Klay with the Grizzlies so the argument is the same.

Melo/Kyrie/Steph/Lebron/Harden/Durant etc. are a different breed of players. Klay's best role will always be as a #2 on a great team. Just like I believe Kyrie's best role will always be a #2 on a Championship team. Is he capable of winning on his own? Quite possibly. I just think your assessment that Klay is a product of the system as a large underestimation of his abilities.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My last 2 cents on the matter:

See and that's the very thing about Reggie, Rip and Ray is that they were completely dependent on their teammates as well. None of those guys did much with the ball squarely in their hands. Those guys were completely dependent on teammates as well. It's not a fair argument to say that those guys produced, while Klay would be incapable of doing the same given the same opportunities they had.

Given that Boston is already very good with Thomas, Horford, Crowder and Bradley, it would be very realistic to assume they would keep winning adding another player like Love. If you put Klay on the Grizzlies, do you think they would win more games? Absolutely. But again in your scenario Love is not, and would not be the dominant one on the team. Neither would Klay with the Grizzlies so the argument is the same.

Melo/Kyrie/Steph/Lebron/Harden/Durant etc. are a different breed of players. Klay's best role will always be as a #2 on a great team. Just like I believe Kyrie's best role will always be a #2 on a Championship team. Is he capable of winning on his own? Quite possibly. I just think your assessment that Klay is a product of the system as a large underestimation of his abilities.

you think if you put Love on Boston he is not immediately their #1 option? I absolutely think he would be.

you missed my last thought on the Klay thing---- that kind of summed up what was coalescing at the edges of my mind during this debate and i finally kind of put my finger on.

I understand what you are saying- and it makes sense- just like Rip always had Billups who was always kind of the key there---- klay has both curry and draymond who are phenomenal play makers.

 

[CitySushi]

you think if you put Love on Boston he is not immediately their #1 option? I absolutely think he would be.

you missed my last thought on the Klay thing---- that kind of summed up what was coalescing at the edges of my mind during this debate and i finally kind of put my finger on.

Yeah, just saw your last thought, must have missed it. I agree with your last sentiment on him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, just saw your last thought, must have missed it. I agree with your last sentiment on him.

and i think thats what my over all point is. I know Klay is a great player, and destined to be a multi time all star and likely multi team all nba player playing in GSW---- but certain guys in the league can beat you a multitude of ways.

like Kyrie- I watched Kawhi Leonard and Nik Batum give him a step in game winning/tying situations- because KI can get to the basket or bomb a 3 with the very best of them. If you can run Klay off the 3 pt line he just isnt that scary. Like a Harden can beat you outside, passing, at the rim, etc....Durant too---- which i think is bY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT thing Durant is bringing tothe Warriors- ability to score inside the arc.