My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Stakesarehigh]

you are not talking about prime MJ

Oh lort

 

[Stakesarehigh]

How many hall of famers were on that team?

Not to mention if we gonna play that game well then the Thunder had 3 of them then.

When it happened certainly matters. Magic wasn't Magic when Jordan played him in the finals. Just as we can't argue that Thunder team was anywhere near prime yet.

 

[thunderc]

Not to mention if we gonna play that game well then the Thunder had 3 of them then.

When it happened certainly matters. Magic wasn't Magic when Jordan played him in the finals. Just as we can't argue that Thunder team was anywhere near prime yet.

I believe every team Jordan beat had at least 2 hall of famers on it

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I believe every team Jordan beat had at least 2 hall of famers on it

So?

Answer the question about the Dubs and the Spurs


And no, the blazers and sonics each had one. And the Lakers had Magic before HIV, hell the Suns had only had Barkley

 

[thunderc]

So?

Answer the question about the Dubs and the Spurs


And no, the blazers and sonics each had one. And the Lakers had Magic before HIV, hell the Suns had only had Barkley

I played your game a little bit honestly the eye test totally and completely settles this for me. I saw it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I played your game a little bit honestly the eye test totally and completely settles this for me. I saw it.

You can certainly have your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but anyone who talks about the 6 and 0 needs to deep dive the differences in playing 2 dynasties and the Sonics starting lineup as example.

 

[thunderc]

I understand, that’s not me. Stuff like that is for people that didn’t actually see them both in their prime. That’s my opinion anyway.

 

[logic]

You can certainly have your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but anyone who talks about the 6 and 0 needs to deep dive the differences in playing 2 dynasties and the Sonics starting lineup as example.

I think that Sonics team would have beat the Mavs team the Heat lost to.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think that Sonics team would have beat the Mavs team the Heat lost to.

Disagree

 

[logic]

Disagree

i know you do, but they should have lost to that heat team as well. For some reason LeBron was still trying to let it be Wade's team that year.

I think that Dallas team is one of the weakest champions in the history of the Association.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

i know you do, but they should have lost to that heat team as well. For some reason LeBron was still trying to let it be Wade's team that year.

I think that Dallas team is one of the weakest champions in the history of the Association.

Id agree they are one of the lesser champs

 

[Shanemansj13]

The Dirk Mavs were better than any finals team Jordan faced.

That team could do just about anything and they were hot at the time.

Crazy to think that wasn’t close to some of the best teams Bron faced.

Spurs 12-13, 13-14 (4 HOFrs)
Warriors 72 win team
Warriors with KD - arguably the best and most talented team of all time
OKC team with 3 future HOF’s (top 50 players ever)
Boston big 3

Not even mentioning those champion Detroit teams, not as high on the list

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

MJ had a losing record too

Lost more times than he won.

Why do people insist on elevating Finals record?

MJ’s finals opponents were extremely weak compared to LeBron’s

Taking a team to the Finals is not a negative

Hate to break it to you, but winning is how we used to judge the GOAT candidates until LeBron slurpers started trying to focus more on stats once his Finals losses started to pile up like corpses at Auschwitz.

70% of All-NBA selections were in the Western Conference from 2011-2018. LeBron didn't beat anyone good on the way to the Finals.

The 2011 Mavs had an inferior ORTG to all of Jordan's Finals opponents aside from the '96 Sonics. And LeBron somehow lost to this team in his prime while having a superteam containing 3 of the Top 4 PER leaders from the previous season. So out the window goes the "his opponents were too good" excuse. The Warriors dynasty didn't begin until LeBron's 12th season; Jordan played 11 full seasons as a Bull.

But even if I were to entertain the competition excuse, Jerry West also has a bunch of Finals losses to stacked teams. Except West's Finals losses were much more competitive on average; 6 out of 9 lasted at least six games while 4 of LeBron's 6 Finals losses have been sweeps or gentlemen sweeps.

And yet you don't see too many people trying to lower the GOAT standards for Jerry West, do you?

If West doesn't get a pass, neither does LeBron.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

The Dirk Mavs were better than any finals team Jordan faced.

The Dirk Mavs are the second oldest title winning team in NBA history. It took a Game 2 collapse and LeBron 8-point performance in Game 4 for that team to avoid being swept. They weren't that good, they were arguably the biggest fluke champion of all time.

 

[Think McFly Think]

LeBron slurpers started trying to focus more on stats once his Finals losses started to pile up like corpses at Auschwitz.

This is the analogy you decided on?

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

That team could do just about anything and they were hot at the time.

Crazy to think that wasn’t close to some of the best teams Bron faced.

Spurs 12-13, 13-14 (4 HOFrs)
Warriors 72 win team
Warriors with KD - arguably the best and most talented team of all time
OKC team with 3 future HOF’s (top 50 players ever)
Boston big 3

Not even mentioning those champion Detroit teams, not as high on the list

The Spurs Hall of Famers were dinosaurs and Parker and Manu were never Top 10 players even in their prime. The Celtics Big Three were also dinosaurs when LeBron got past them.

The 73-win Warriors were down 3-1 to a Thunder team with no shooting and no depth.

In the '17 Finals, the next five Cavs after LeBron averaged just 2 PPG less than the next five Warriors after Durant. The difference is Durant played defense and showed up in the 4th quarter, LeBron did neither.

Westbrook and Harden weren't anywhere close to MVP level in 2012.

Those Detroit teams didn't have a star. In fact, contrary to popular narrative, Cleveland actually had a better roster in 2007. The Pistons only clear advantage was in the backcourt. But LeBron is obviously an advantage over Tayshaun Prince and a frontline of Ilgauskas, Gooden and Varejao is better than an aging Rasheed, washed up Chris Webber, and post-knee injury Antonio McDyess.

 

[tlance]

Hate to break it to you, but winning is how we used to judge the GOAT candidates until LeBron slurpers started trying to focus more on stats once his Finals losses started to pile up like corpses at Auschwitz.

70% of All-NBA selections were in the Western Conference from 2011-2018. LeBron didn't beat anyone good on the way to the Finals.

The 2011 Mavs had an inferior ORTG to all of Jordan's Finals opponents aside from the '96 Sonics. And LeBron somehow lost to this team in his prime while having a superteam containing 3 of the Top 4 PER leaders from the previous season. So out the window goes the "his opponents were too good" excuse. The Warriors dynasty didn't begin until LeBron's 12th season; Jordan played 11 full seasons as a Bull.

But even if I were to entertain the competition excuse, Jerry West also has a bunch of Finals losses to stacked teams. Except West's Finals losses were much more competitive on average; 6 out of 9 lasted at least six games while 4 of LeBron's 6 Finals losses have been sweeps or gentlemen sweeps.

And yet you don't see too many people trying to lower the GOAT standards for Jerry West, do you?

If West doesn't get a pass, neither does LeBron.

LeBron has 4 titles and was hands down the best player in the league for a decade.

Jerry West had 1 title and was never the best player in the league.

Try again.

You are just cherry picking BS

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

LeBron has 4 titles and was hands down the best player in the league for a decade.

Jerry West had 1 title and was never the best player in the league.

Try again.

You are just cherry picking BS

Oh NOW the number of rings matters to you, LMAO. Bron slurpers are great at double talk.

If losing to stacked teams is acceptable as long as you put up great stats and make the series competitive, then West>LeBron by your logic.

 

[Jordan23]

T

So?

Answer the question about the Dubs and the Spurs


And no, the blazers and sonics each had one. And the Lakers had Magic before HIV, hell the Suns had only had Barkley

To be fair Kemp would smoke today’s players. Gar Payton also would be tough yet.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

T


To be fair Kemp would smoke today’s players. Gar Payton also would be tough yet.

So?

Answer the question about the Dubs and the Spurs


And no, the blazers and sonics each had one. And the Lakers had Magic before HIV, hell the Suns had only had Barkley

So?

Answer the question about the Dubs and the Spurs


And no, the blazers and sonics each had one. And the Lakers had Magic before HIV, hell the Suns had only had Barkley

The Suns didn't "just have Barkley"

Even with MJ averaging 41 PPG in the series and outscoring every Sun by at least 13 PPG, the Suns and Bulls still scored the same total points cumulatively.

So if anything, Barkley was getting more from his mates than Jordan was.