My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Stakesarehigh]

It’s crazy how much better Detroit has played since the made moves to decide Monty’s lineups for him. lol

What an awful hire that was. And they can’t even afford to get out of it.

and when he got all the bullshit pieces in he started fucking around again. Blown out last 2 games. Let's just hope he was seeing who he should give time too but he played Fournier like 30 minutes and Duren 24

That should be a contract voiding offense.

 

[broncosmitty]

had to be something. I mean..they went and got Mcadoo and then he left? Like Mcadoo was 27 lol.

Just weird to go from champs about 3 years earlier. keep 2 pieces of that and add several other future HOF and Maxwell is a borderline guy and you suck?

Had to have been a shitty lockerroom.

McAdoo was pretty much washed at that point though. Shell of himself for the most part.

He still scored some, but he was done being a force.

Detroit was garbage with him the next year too.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

how did I not know detroit traded their top pick for Mcadoo? Gross lol.

 

[broncosmitty]

how did I not know detroit traded their top pick for Mcadoo? Gross lol.

Two firsts.

One was #1.

No idea if it was Dicky V’s call. But that was his one year as HC.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

of my God TWO first round picks AND ML Carr?

how did I go my entire life not knowing this atrocity

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Two firsts.

One was #1.

No idea if it was Dicky V’s call. But that was his one year as HC.

the fact they managed to build a team that was that good in half a decade after that is remarkable.

 

[broncosmitty]

the fact they managed to build a team that was that good in half a decade after that is remarkable.

Zeke was really, really, really good.

And that Laimbeer trade was epic.

Those two held people accountable in way that isn’t normal.

 

[broncosmitty]

of my God TWO first round picks AND ML Carr?

how did I go my entire life not knowing this atrocity

I’ve only heard Kelser bring it up a couple times over all the years he’s done games.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I’ve only heard Kelser bring it up a couple times over all the years he’s done games.

yea man. I watched Pistons games religiously for 2 decades and don't remember it mentioned once. I've been bad about it since I moved from toledo and they started sucking.. but still.

That's an all time bad trade man. Considering the Celtics flipped that for McHale and Parish essentially .

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Zeke was really, really, really good.

And that Laimbeer trade was epic.

Those two held people accountable in way that isn’t normal.

I guess in the end they did the tank job the right way?

 

[broncosmitty]

yea man. I watched Pistons games religiously for 2 decades and don't remember it mentioned once. I've been bad about it since I moved from toledo and they started sucking.. but still.

That's an all time bad trade man. Considering the Celtics flipped that for McHale and Parish essentially .

Joe Barry Carrol with the #1 while trading McHale and Parrish is prolly worse.

Red double fleeced that offseason.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Joe Barry Carrol with the #1 while trading McHale and Parrish is prolly worse.

Red double fleeced that offseason.

that's epic shit. I'm not sure why I hadn't pieced that together before. I knew Parrish came over from GS...

so effectively Red added ML Carr kevin McHale and Robert Parrish for Bob Mcaddoo via 2 ridiculously lopsided trades.

 

[broncosmitty]

that's epic shit. I'm not sure why I hadn't pieced that together before. I knew Parrish came over from GS...

so effectively Red added ML Carr kevin McHale and Robert Parrish for Bob Mcaddoo via 2 ridiculously lopsided trades.

 

[tlance]

And were terrible.

They didn’t even win 30 games.

The relevance to this discussion is that Bird was drafted by a franchise that was able to build a contender in his first 2 years.

Of course Bird was a huge part of that.

But the point is he had absolutely no reason to want to leave. Between that and the state of free agency, it almost wasn’t even an option for him.

So it is unfair to criticize LeBron for playing in multiple cities when measuring against greats from past generations who played in vastly different circumstances.

 

[tlance]

Duncan and Ginonli Parker were like 35 dude. Lol and they didn’t cramp up.

And it’s a different topic. He was talking about getting to the finals through a very weak eastern conf

Those teams were absolutely as good or better than the bad boy Pistons that Jordan played.

My point here is that a loss is a loss.

There are some who try to make it seem like losing in the finals is some type of resume stain while losing before the Finals isn’t.

And that is just plain ignorant.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The relevance to this discussion is that Bird was drafted by a franchise that was able to build a contender in his first 2 years.

Of course Bird was a huge part of that.

But the point is he had absolutely no reason to want to leave. Between that and the state of free agency, it almost wasn’t even an option for him.

So it is unfair to criticize LeBron for playing in multiple cities when measuring against greats from past generations who played in vastly different circumstances.

to be fair to Smitty it wasn't him that was saying that but I picked up that vibe again. Like you said though Magic Bird and to a lesser extent Jordan were in good situations no one would leave. Lebron was not. They couldn't build even an adequate group around him the first time around.

 

[SJ76]

Those teams were absolutely as good or better than the bad boy Pistons that Jordan played.

My point here is that a loss is a loss.

There are some who try to make it seem like losing in the finals is some type of resume stain while losing before the Finals isn’t.

And that is just plain ignorant.

I agree on that. Losing is losing. I’m not a participating trophy guy

But comparing Lebrons East to Mikes East when they were young is pretty comical

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I agree on that. Losing is losing. I’m not a participating trophy guy

But comparing Lebrons East to Mikes East when they were young is pretty comical

def not the same. But again Lebron was trying that with the above roster I listed.

Jordan wasn't carrying that to a title either.

Lebron with Kyrie and Kevin Love was a totally different animal. And unfortunately the only way it was possible was for Lebron to leave and have them tank for a few years to get the picks to get those guys.

 

[SJ76]

def not the same. But again Lebron was trying that with the above roster I listed.

Jordan wasn't carrying that to a title either.

Lebron with Kyrie and Kevin Love was a totally different animal. And unfortunately the only way it was possible was for Lebron to leave and have them tank for a few years to get the picks to get those guys.

Yes no one ever won a title in b-ball by themselves. So to me it’s just nonsense trying to pump Lebron getting to finals and losing. His East was not good. It’s just a fact

 

[Wamu]

K? are you a 13-year-old girl?