My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Stakesarehigh]

And were terrible.

They didn’t even win 30 games.

I am aware. But I think it was part injuries (just totally looking at stats I don't know I wasn't even alive) and it was yes...Bird elevating that team.

I'm just saying we are talking about playing with future hall guys as opposed to Delonte and Boobie Gibson.

And shortly thereafter (Boston being Boston) they added Parish and McHale. Lebron gave the Cavs what....8 years to build a team? So that's where I let him off the hook on leaving.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am aware. But I think it was part injuries (just totally looking at stats I don't know I wasn't even alive) and it was yes...Bird elevating that team.

I'm just saying we are talking about playing with future hall guys as opposed to Delonte and Boobie Gibson.

And shortly thereafter (Boston being Boston) they added Parish and McHale. Lebron gave the Cavs what....8 years to build a team? So that's where I let him off the hook on leaving.

And even with the "team hopping" that smooth brains like to whine about...he fulfilled every contract and never asked to be traded.

 

[SJ76]

Having literally the most points ever should be a factor, no? Playing long enough to get those means you're pretty good. No one else has done that.

Fer sure. Same reason Kareem is in it. Like I said if longevity is your main factor he’s it. Kareem right after

 

[SJ76]

But you can compare them to the KD Warriors or the Duncan Spurs.

Duncan and Ginonli Parker were like 35 dude. Lol and they didn’t cramp up.

And it’s a different topic. He was talking about getting to the finals through a very weak eastern conf

 

[broncosmitty]

I am aware. But I think it was part injuries (just totally looking at stats I don't know I wasn't even alive) and it was yes...Bird elevating that team.

I'm just saying we are talking about playing with future hall guys as opposed to Delonte and Boobie Gibson.

And shortly thereafter (Boston being Boston) they added Parish and McHale. Lebron gave the Cavs what....8 years to build a team? So that's where I let him off the hook on leaving.

I haven’t talked about Lebrons teammates in this thread at all.



But I have talked about the Celtics being at their lowest point in thirty years before Bird.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I haven’t talked about Lebrons teammates in this thread at all.



But I have talked about the Celtics being at their lowest point in thirty years before Bird.

that was definitely more on my end injecting that into the dialogue as Bird and Magic being on one team was highlighted

 

[broncosmitty]

that was definitely more on my end injecting that into the dialogue as Bird and Magic being on one team was highlighted

The one team portion can’t elevate anyone above LeBron.

Not for me anyway.

Only guy in my top 5 that played for one team is Magic.

And Bird isn’t in the conversation for best #1 pick anyway. (It’s prolly LBJ, but I think there is a discussion there.)

 

[broncosmitty]

I think that Celtics turnaround in 79 might’ve been the biggest single season turnaround in NBA history, at the time.

It’s not even the Celtics best turnaround now. Danny Ainge pulled that off without even drafting anyone.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I have no doubt that had Bron had more of a cast in Cleveland he would have stayed. Maybe the LA bit still would've happened idk. But he walked away from

Anthony Parker
Mo Williams
corpse of Antwan Jamison
corpse of Shaq
crazy Delonte
 Varajeo
corpse of Ziggy

That was his lineup to beat the best Celtic team since Bird and he got killed for losing.

 

[msgkings322]

The one team portion can’t elevate anyone above LeBron.

Not for me anyway.

Only guy in my top 5 that played for one team is Magic.

And Bird isn’t in the conversation for best #1 pick anyway. (It’s prolly LBJ, but I think there is a discussion there.)

If you believe LeBron > Bird which is the only reasonable take, then by definition doesn't make him a better #1 pick than Bird? This seems cut and dried to me

 

[broncosmitty]

If you believe LeBron > Bird which is the only reasonable take, then by definition doesn't make him a better #1 pick than Bird? This seems cut and dried to me

Bird wast a #1 pick.

When he lost to Sparty in the Final Four Finals, he’d already been drafted by Boston the year before. Red was one smart MFer.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think that Celtics turnaround in 79 might’ve been the biggest single season turnaround in NBA history, at the time.

It’s not even the Celtics best turnaround now. Danny Ainge pulled that off without even drafting anyone.

I'm looking at their lineup and scratching my head how they could have been so bad

but this further illustrates how ridiculous it was for Dr J to have Tiny anywhere near top 10 status. But it's also criminal that he only got 24 minutes a game.

 

[Jordan23]

MJ should have been less of a pussy and played longer.

6-0, what’s left to do? Retire early and become a billlionaire sounds nice.

 

[broncosmitty]

I'm looking at their lineup and scratching my head how they could have been so bad

but this further illustrates how ridiculous it was for Dr J to have Tiny anywhere near top 10 status. But it's also criminal that he only got 24 minutes a game.

He tore his Achilles and missed all of the season before that.

Assuming he wasn’t close to 100% yet.

 

[broncosmitty]

6-0, what’s left to do? Retire early and become a billlionaire sounds nice.

In all fairness, he retired with 3 rings. The first time.

And played again after retiring, again(in Forrest Gump voice) after 6 rings.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Duncan and Ginonli Parker were like 35 dude. Lol and they didn’t cramp up.

And it’s a different topic. He was talking about getting to the finals through a very weak eastern conf

Tony was 30 and you might be forgetting Kawhi Leonard lol.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

He tore his Achilles and missed all of the season before that.

Assuming he wasn’t close to 100% yet.

that makes sense then. But even the team before that..

so obviously injuries played a role. But again you're telling me Dave Cowens Jojo White Maxwell etc can only win 20 games? I get they traded White....dude idk. Are we sure Monty Williams didn't travel back in time and coach this team

 

[broncosmitty]

that makes sense then. But even the team before that..

so obviously injuries played a role. But again you're telling me Dave Cowens Jojo White Maxwell etc can only win 20 games? I get they traded White....dude idk. Are we sure Monty Williams didn't travel back in time and coach this team

They fired their coach after an awful start. But Cowens didn’t do all that hot as a player coach after taking over.

Had a new owner too. Guessing there was a lot of turmoil in that locker room. Idk.

 

[broncosmitty]

that makes sense then. But even the team before that..

so obviously injuries played a role. But again you're telling me Dave Cowens Jojo White Maxwell etc can only win 20 games? I get they traded White....dude idk. Are we sure Monty Williams didn't travel back in time and coach this team

It’s crazy how much better Detroit has played since the made moves to decide Monty’s lineups for him. lol

What an awful hire that was. And they can’t even afford to get out of it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

They fired their coach after an awful start. But Cowens didn’t do all that hot as a player coach after taking over.

Had a new owner too. Guessing there was a lot of turmoil in that locker room. Idk.

had to be something. I mean..they went and got Mcadoo and then he left? Like Mcadoo was 27 lol.

Just weird to go from champs about 3 years earlier. keep 2 pieces of that and add several other future HOF and Maxwell is a borderline guy and you suck?

Had to have been a shitty lockerroom.