Series Thread: M's @ Tigers: June 8th - 10th

[SeattleCoug]

Mariners do not make logical trade decisions and are their own worst enemy when it comes to shuffling around a MLB roster.
Seems they are always 'betting on the come' and lately ( past few years ) are stashing away money building a war chest for who knows what ( do you really believe they will splash the pot and acquire crucial veteran pieces moving forward - hahahahahaha some Friday humor )

My fear is they are trying to pull an Astros / White Sox wanna be, and assemble a team of young players who perform far above expectations who they acquired on the cheap. Yea catching lightning in a bottle is possible ... but it rarely happens.

I guess time will tell, thus far the Kelenic experiment is a total flop. Lets hope he is not another Dustin Ackley who raked in the minors and just was never able to hit in the bigs.

The Mariners are at the peak of what they have been for a near 20yr run. A semi talented group of ball players who languish around the .500 win % and never seem to be able to get over that hump when the opportunity to win and advance into the post season appears to be within their reach.

If the plan is to be like the Astros, you better have drafted well and have a Correa, a Bregman and a Springer coming up in your system. The chances that M's have hit their drafts that well is slim. Maybe Kelenic, J Rod and Lewis are that crew but man that's a high bar to be able to rely on something like that.

They are already lagging behind the White Sox model because in year 3 the White Sox added Keuchel, Grandal, Mazara(he's gone yeah), Encarnacion, etc. while the Mariners added Chris Flexen. And also they kept Jose Abreu, a solid player who saw thru the rebuild and helped the younger guys so why can't Seagar or Haniger be that guy.

So yeah they can say they are following certain models but ill believe it when I see it.

 

[MarinersBestFan]

If the plan is to be like the Astros, you better have drafted well and have a Correa, a Bregman and a Springer coming up in your system. The chances that M's have hit their drafts that well is slim. Maybe Kelenic, J Rod and Lewis are that crew but man that's a high bar to be able to rely on something like that.

They are already lagging behind the White Sox model because in year 3 the White Sox added Keuchel, Grandal, Mazara(he's gone yeah), Encarnacion, etc. while the Mariners added Chris Flexen. And also they kept Jose Abreu, a solid player who saw thru the rebuild and helped the younger guys so why can't Seagar or Haniger be that guy.

So yeah they can say they are following certain models but ill believe it when I see it.

Yea the Astros nailed it for #1 or round 1 top picks in like 3 straight years ( those big 3 you listed - Corr - Breg and Springer ) I am pretty sure Altuve ( although a couple years earlier ) was a budget guy and a sleeper pic as well ( obvious what he has done )

The Cano contract is and will be the Mariners last hefty $$$ layout for a veteran player.
They let Pay-Rod walk in his prime due to tight purse strings and he was arguably the best player in baseball at the time ( outside Griffey jr )

Time will tell .... but I have a feeling they are going to remain a midsize payroll team that is content to have 1mil fans at the gate who are willing to watch a .500 ballclub languish for years to compete for a division title. I honestly hope I am dead wrong.

But past behavior is the most clearest look at future behavior

 

[NWinAZ]

We have a bullpen day, we lose

Opponent has a bullpen day, they win

... go figure...

And Tigers have the worst bullpen backed up by stats. Go figure indeed.

 

[wazzu31]

If the plan is to be like the Astros, you better have drafted well and have a Correa, a Bregman and a Springer coming up in your system. The chances that M's have hit their drafts that well is slim. Maybe Kelenic, J Rod and Lewis are that crew but man that's a high bar to be able to rely on something like that.

They are already lagging behind the White Sox model because in year 3 the White Sox added Keuchel, Grandal, Mazara(he's gone yeah), Encarnacion, etc. while the Mariners added Chris Flexen. And also they kept Jose Abreu, a solid player who saw thru the rebuild and helped the younger guys so why can't Seagar or Haniger be that guy.

So yeah they can say they are following certain models but ill believe it when I see it.

I completely disagree with the first paragraph. The Mariners right now are way ahead of the Astros and Padres and have a better collection of prospects than they did. The only thing they do not have is a Altuve. But finding an Altuve is about as easy to find as a Trout is. Without Altuve the Astros are not WS champs regardless of the cheating and no one will ever have a him again. They just need 4 instead of the Astros 3 prospects to hit.

Second paragraph I completely agree with. Though problem is there hasn’t been legitimate free agents out there besides Rendon and Machado but they were in the first years of the rebuild and the Mariners had a 3B. Trading for an ace this past off-season would have been great, a missed opportunity and something they should be criticized for. Jerry should have signed both Walker and Paxton if he wanted to do this dumbass 6 man rotation. But with the pitching staff sadly Marco doing what he did prior to this year has stunted the growth. Marco has pitched bottom rung ace or number 2 starter level but he is the number 1 Jerry guy so it is hard with his blinders to look at Marco and say he isn’t a guy you want in the playoff series until your 3rd game.

Without question I agree with your moving the goal posts argument, but it took the Astros and Padres longer than what fans have given this rebuild. Yes it blows, and as jaded fans we deserve better. But if we agreed with a rebuild then 2021 they are suppose to be competitive, 2022 they are suppose to be in the playoffs and 2023 they are suppose to be WS contenders. Losing 2020’s minor league season has to be taken into account and sadly it does move the goalposts. Kelenic, Gilbert and Raleigh all would’ve been September call ups last year along with this year Hancock and Julio for sure along with Marte at least getting to AAA.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I completely disagree with the first paragraph. The Mariners right now are way ahead of the Astros and Padres and have a better collection of prospects than they did. The only thing they do not have is a Altuve. But finding an Altuve is about as easy to find as a Trout is. Without Altuve the Astros are not WS champs regardless of the cheating and no one will ever have a him again. They just need 4 instead of the Astros 3 prospects to hit.

Second paragraph I completely agree with. Though problem is there hasn’t been legitimate free agents out there besides Rendon and Machado but they were in the first years of the rebuild and the Mariners had a 3B. Trading for an ace this past off-season would have been great, a missed opportunity and something they should be criticized for. Jerry should have signed both Walker and Paxton if he wanted to do this dumbass 6 man rotation. But with the pitching staff sadly Marco doing what he did prior to this year has stunted the growth. Marco has pitched bottom rung ace or number 2 starter level but he is the number 1 Jerry guy so it is hard with his blinders to look at Marco and say he isn’t a guy you want in the playoff series until your 3rd game.

Without question I agree with your moving the goal posts argument, but it took the Astros and Padres longer than what fans have given this rebuild. Yes it blows, and as jaded fans we deserve better. But if we agreed with a rebuild then 2021 they are suppose to be competitive, 2022 they are suppose to be in the playoffs and 2023 they are suppose to be WS contenders. Losing 2020’s minor league season has to be taken into account and sadly it does move the goalposts. Kelenic, Gilbert and Raleigh all would’ve been September call ups last year along with this year Hancock and Julio for sure along with Marte at least getting to AAA.

I agree that they don’t have an Altuve, obviously. That’s why I’m not sure that plan really makes sense unless you really hit on guys. Plus the Astros had tanked so hard that they had multiple top 2 picks and that included the Aiken debacle and whiffing on Appel. The Mariners highest pick in the Dipoto era has been been pick 6 last year and that was the only one that was a top 10 pick because they just were never bad enough.

Obviously the big kicker is hitting on the prospects. I think if he stays healthy, Lewis is a hit. He’s been solid when healthy. The rest is tbd. As jaded as I feel at times I do realize 2020 hurt prospect growth, there’s no way around that. You need games and ABs to progress. However I don’t think it should be used as an excuse to just pocket money in 2021 when additions could have been made to advance the team. Was never asking for Bauer, Realmuto or Springer but I campaigned hard for Wong and Taijuan Walker would have helped this rotation a ton. Both are having solid years.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I completely disagree with the first paragraph. The Mariners right now are way ahead of the Astros and Padres and have a better collection of prospects than they did. The only thing they do not have is a Altuve. But finding an Altuve is about as easy to find as a Trout is. Without Altuve the Astros are not WS champs regardless of the cheating and no one will ever have a him again. They just need 4 instead of the Astros 3 prospects to hit.

Second paragraph I completely agree with. Though problem is there hasn’t been legitimate free agents out there besides Rendon and Machado but they were in the first years of the rebuild and the Mariners had a 3B. Trading for an ace this past off-season would have been great, a missed opportunity and something they should be criticized for. Jerry should have signed both Walker and Paxton if he wanted to do this dumbass 6 man rotation. But with the pitching staff sadly Marco doing what he did prior to this year has stunted the growth. Marco has pitched bottom rung ace or number 2 starter level but he is the number 1 Jerry guy so it is hard with his blinders to look at Marco and say he isn’t a guy you want in the playoff series until your 3rd game.

Without question I agree with your moving the goal posts argument, but it took the Astros and Padres longer than what fans have given this rebuild. Yes it blows, and as jaded fans we deserve better. But if we agreed with a rebuild then 2021 they are suppose to be competitive, 2022 they are suppose to be in the playoffs and 2023 they are suppose to be WS contenders. Losing 2020’s minor league season has to be taken into account and sadly it does move the goalposts. Kelenic, Gilbert and Raleigh all would’ve been September call ups last year along with this year Hancock and Julio for sure along with Marte at least getting to AAA.

I agree that they don’t have an Altuve, obviously. That’s why I’m not sure that plan really makes sense unless you really hit on guys. Plus the Astros had tanked so hard that they had multiple top 2 picks and that included the Aiken debacle and whiffing on Appel. The Mariners highest pick in the Dipoto era has been

Obviously the big kicker is hitting on the prospects. I think if he stays healthy, Lewis is a hit. He’s been solid when healthy. The rest is tbd. As jaded as I feel at times I do realize 2020 hurt prospect growth, there’s no way around that. You need games and ABs to progress. However I don’t think it should be used as an excuse to just pocket money in 2021 when additions could have been made to advance the team. Was never asking for Bauer, Realmuto or Springer but I campaigned hard for Wong and Taijuan Walker would have helped this rotation a ton. Both are having solid years.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree that they don’t have an Altuve, obviously. That’s why I’m not sure that plan really makes sense unless you really hit on guys. Plus the Astros had tanked so hard that they had multiple top 2 picks and that included the Aiken debacle and whiffing on Appel. The Mariners highest pick in the Dipoto era has been

Obviously the big kicker is hitting on the prospects. I think if he stays healthy, Lewis is a hit. He’s been solid when healthy. The rest is tbd. As jaded as I feel at times I do realize 2020 hurt prospect growth, there’s no way around that. You need games and ABs to progress. However I don’t think it should be used as an excuse to just pocket money in 2021 when additions could have been made to advance the team. Was never asking for Bauer, Realmuto or Springer but I campaigned hard for Wong and Taijuan Walker would have helped this rotation a ton. Both are having solid years.

Fair with the draft picks at their spots of selecting. They Mariners have lucked out honestly with their drafts because Lewis, Gilbert and Hancock were all top guys before injury or COVID. Kelenic isn’t really a Mariners pick but would’ve been right behind Breggman. They don’t have the Altuve which is in impossible but (though it’s AAA) Raleigh is playing way above his projected ceiling.
Where the M’s have set themselves apart is their international signings. JRod is going to be an all star player, then they got Marte who is killing it and this last signings they some high profiled one.

Where the M’s have set themselves apart is their international signings. JRod is going to be an all star player, then they got Marte who is killing it and this last signings they some high profiled one.

Realmuto was actually a guy I would’ve loved for them to sign, Wong for sure. But my feelings on not going after OF’s this past off-season just IMO was smart. Paxton and Walker both should’ve been back. You are going to a six man rotation with Marco, a couple of upside guys in Sheffield and Dunn, then Kukuchi. Not sure how thinking a dude who really wasn’t impressive in Korea is better than Walker. Or shit, sign Flexen still and toss him in the pen for those bullpen days.

The Padres are the exact definition of what to do. They built the organization well with their rebuild, and spend boat loads of money on Hosmer and Machado. And with how they have done trades they don’t have to worry about choosing A guy over B because contracts are all spread around. That’s thing with the Mariners, let’s just say half of them hit, all be up around the same time that’s $120 on the low end or high end over the $200 million mark for a budget.