M's Fire Dr. Lorena Martin; She Fires Back

[wazzu31]

Don’t have a link or care to put it but on the radio today they set the Mariners organization has filed a lawsuit against her. They better have some hard ass evidence if they want anytime of settlement or possibly ruin any semi pipeline they have in Latin America.

 

[PolarVortex]

So the saga is finally over. The MLB investigative team has exonerated the Mariner brass. Doctor Lorena Martin has lost. But that's okay. The feisty little Latina is still a winner in my book.

 

[wazzu31]

So the saga is finally over. The MLB investigative team has exonerated the Mariner brass. Doctor Lorena Martin has lost. But that's okay. The feisty little Latina is still a winner in my book.

Eh, not saying I wouldn’t but definitely has the I want to talk right after look.

 

[PolarVortex]

So, was doc Lorena telling the truth? Are Dipoto and company really racists against Hispanics? Did they really say that 'Latinos are lazy'? They claim innocence but sometimes actions belie words. Consider who has been moved off the team this winter:
Cano
Segura
Cruz
Heredia
Colome
Diaz
Nicasio
Rameriz
Miranda

There is a good chance that Mariners opening day roster will have fewer Hispanics than any other team in baseball. And right here in good ole liberal Seattle, too.

 

[seahawksfan234]

So, was doc Lorena telling the truth? Are Dipoto and company really racists against Hispanics? Did they really say that 'Latinos are lazy'? They claim innocence but sometimes actions belie words. Consider who has been moved off the team this winter:
Cano
Segura
Cruz
Heredia
Colome
Diaz
Nicasio
Rameriz
Miranda

There is a good chance that Mariners opening day roster will have fewer Hispanics than any other team in baseball. And right here in good ole liberal Seattle, too.

I don't think it really matters at this point.

Not saying that Dipoto and company are geniuses, but I can't imagine someone could become a major league GM with two different teams if they hold bigoted views against latinos that influence their decision making in a league that is dominated by latino players.

Those guys would've been moved off the team irrespective of their ethnicity.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more backlash by the community against the Mariners given the very liberal views of those in this city. Just goes to show how much people care about the Mariners nowadays.

 

[PolarVortex]

I don't think it really matters at this point.

Not saying that Dipoto and company are geniuses, but I can't imagine someone could become a major league GM with two different teams if they hold bigoted views against latinos that influence their decision making in a league that is dominated by latino players.

Those guys would've been moved off the team irrespective of their ethnicity.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more backlash by the community against the Mariners given the very liberal views of those in this city. Just goes to show how much people care about the Mariners nowadays.

You're probably right. I'm just trying to stir things up, get people talking. 9 Latinos off the team and 3 added back (Encarnacion, Narvaez, Domingo). That's a net loss of 6.

 

[blstoker]

You're probably right. I'm just trying to stir things up, get people talking. 9 Latinos off the team and 3 added back (Encarnacion, Narvaez, Domingo). That's a net loss of 6.

Net loss doesn't necessarily mean causation.

Heredia (.236/.318/.342/.661), Nicasio (1-6, 1 sv 6bs 6.00era) and Ramirez (2-4, 6.50) legitimately should have been removed from the team anyway. Colome was traded for another latino player, Omar Narvaez. Cano and Diaz were flipped for 4 players (including 1 Latino), and Cano's salary and age are now someone else's problem. Miranda was released in season, and no one else wanted him either - he's now in Japan and I hope he makes it back to MLB. Segura was a lockerroom issue and was traded (with Nicasio) for a package that included 1 Latin player, who was flipped for another Latin player and a draft pick in another deal.

There are legitimate reasons for the departure of every player on the list. While I would much prefer Cruz @$14 million than Encarnacion @$21 million, I don't think them being Latino had anything to do with why the roster is set up the way it is right now.

 

[seahawksfan234]

You're probably right. I'm just trying to stir things up, get people talking. 9 Latinos off the team and 3 added back (Encarnacion, Narvaez, Domingo). That's a net loss of 6.

On the flip side, it was an internal investigation. You really think that MLB wouldn't be biased in their investigation? Imagine how bad that would be for the organization if they concluded that a major league franchise was discriminating against what is probably it's biggest talent pool?

Even then; it's all hearsay. It would be difficult to definitively prove that the organization was systemically discriminating against latino players without recordings or some other solid proof, which they obviously didn't possess.

Lastly, if the people running the Mariners hold those views, I would find it difficult to believe that those biases would manifest themselves in a league that is primarily concerned about winning and making money. You can argue which means more to the Mariners, but by means of self-preservation the front office would likely suppress those views when it comes to making personnel decisions.

I can say that some of the women I work with are bitchy and susceptible to tantrums over criticism, but does that mean that I would refuse to work with them or consult with them? Obviously not.

 

[seahawksfan234]

You're probably right. I'm just trying to stir things up, get people talking. 9 Latinos off the team and 3 added back (Encarnacion, Narvaez, Domingo). That's a net loss of 6.

I'll give you this; you've always been quite good at that.

Without any trades to argue/complain/bitch about and a relatively boring season upcoming, this could be an interesting conversation.

Although given your history, I know you're merely playing devil's advocate.

 

[PolarVortex]

I'll give you this; you've always been quite good at that.

Without any trades to argue/complain/bitch about and a relatively boring season upcoming, this could be an interesting conversation.

Although given your history, I know you're merely playing devil's advocate.

So which lineup do you think would score the most runs in 2019?
Haniger age 28
Segura 29
Cano 36
Cruz 39
Seager 31
Healy 27
Span 35
Zunino 28
Gordon 31

or

Smnith 26
Gordon 31
Haniger 28
Encarnacion 36
Bruce 32
Seager 31
Santana 27
Narvaez 27
(Tim) Beckham 29

 

[seahawksfan234]

So which lineup do you think would score the most runs in 2019?
Haniger age 28
Segura 29
Cano 36
Cruz 39
Seager 31
Healy 27
Span 35
Zunino 28
Gordon 31

or

Smnith 26
Gordon 31
Haniger 28
Encarnacion 36
Bruce 32
Seager 31
Santana 27
Narvaez 27
(Tim) Beckham 29

I think the answer is fairly obvious. I expect Ryon Healy to likely get more time at 1B than Bruce though.

Since I just downed a cup of coffee and cracked open a beer (I'm hungover and it's my bes- only cure), I'll look at it position by position. Assuming there are no injuries:

RF: Mitch Haniger: One could expect a regression to the mean here, but I do see Haniger as trending up. For this I'll say no change, or minimal change.

CF: Dee Gordon -> Mallex Smith: This one is kind of hard to evaluate since Dee Gordon is going back to second. I'll say mild improvement because Mallex Smith provides the same value on the base paths, but he's a much better defender and actually gets on base.

LF: Denard Span -> Domingo Santana: Holding the assumption that this is based on 2019 projections, this one is a huge question mark. Santana put up a great year at the plate in 2017, and if he's able to replicate that then this would be an improvement. Span is going to be 35. Tough to say how Santana performs, but if he is an average of how he was 2016-2018 (.270/.355/.470 with an average of 24 HRs over a 162 game season), then this could be an improvement.

3B: Kyle Seager: He has not shown an ability to adjust to the shift on offense, his defense has taken a step back, and he is another year older. I would find it hard to reasonably argue that he can make an adjustment offensively. I'd expect a regression here, although I hope I'm wrong.

2B: Robinson Cano -> Dee Gordon: I expect Dee Gordon to have a better season in 2019 than he did in 2018 because he battled through injuries throughout the second half of the season. This can be shown through his decreased efficiency stealing bases and the fact that they had him attempt less steals. I still hold Robinson Cano in high regard and think he's a top-10 MLB 2B. So regression here.

SS: Jean Segura -> Tim Beckham/J.P. Crawford: This will be the biggest hit to the team. Even if J.P. Crawford meets the expectations lofted on him as a prospect, he will never be close to the player that Jean Segura is. If he doesn't meet expectations, then this position will have gone from a huge strength to a huge liability.

1B: Ryon Healy: Not much change here.

DH: Nelson Cruz -> Edwin Encarncion: Obviously it would be reasonable to expect that Nelson Cruz will regress, but even if he does regress substantially I expect that he will have a better year than Encarncion.

C: Mike Zunino -> Omar Narvaez: I think that Narvaez is the antithesis of Zunino. He's patient at the plate, but his defense is not pretty. Depending on how much you value pitch framing and defensive ability, I think this is a wash. Narvaez gives us more value at the plate, but that is offset by his defense.

Overall I'd say the position players as a group regress. The biggest thing that will tank the team is that the bullpen was gutted and that we lose James Paxton. The team won more games than it should have in 2018. They won 89 games but were more akin to a 80 win team or so. I'd expect that the current roster will win 75ish games +/- 5.

 

[wazzu31]

So, was doc Lorena telling the truth? Are Dipoto and company really racists against Hispanics? Did they really say that 'Latinos are lazy'? They claim innocence but sometimes actions belie words. Consider who has been moved off the team this winter:
Cano
Segura
Cruz
Heredia
Colome
Diaz
Nicasio
Rameriz
Miranda

There is a good chance that Mariners opening day roster will have fewer Hispanics than any other team in baseball. And right here in good ole liberal Seattle, too.

I highly doubt the Mariners did anything wrong. I remember there was a radio host from LA talking about the Mariners hiring her and basically said glad she is your problem now.

As well as, the Mariners are located in Seattle. I highly doubt Stanton and Co. thought it was credible. Cause if it were even semi true then Stanton and Co. would be put in Donald Sterling category.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more backlash by the community against the Mariners given the very liberal views of those in this city. Just goes to show how much people care about the Mariners nowadays.

That’s because the activists in Seattle who demanded the Seahawks sign Kaepernick hate baseball and don’t care about Latin Americans. They really think Puerto Rican’s are the same. Baseball is a sport where activists could have an actual gripe that is coherent.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That’s because the activists in Seattle who demanded the Seahawks sign Kaepernick hate baseball and don’t care about Latin Americans. They really think Puerto Rican’s are the same. Baseball is a sport where activists could have an actual gripe that is coherent.

Imagine the uproar that would occur if there was some former trainer who accused the Seahawks of saying that African Americans are lazy.

Seahawks would probably have to fold as a franchise.

 

[wazzu31]

Imagine the uproar that would occur if there was some former trainer who accused the Seahawks of saying that African Americans are lazy.

Seahawks would probably have to fold as a franchise.

Well ya, that’s what I’m saying. Hell there was more up an uproar back in 08 or whenever it was that news leaked the Mariners players hated and wanted to kick Ichiro’s ass.

 

[PolarVortex]

I think the answer is fairly obvious. I expect Ryon Healy to likely get more time at 1B than Bruce though.

Since I just downed a cup of coffee and cracked open a beer (I'm hungover and it's my bes- only cure), I'll look at it position by position. Assuming there are no injuries:

RF: Mitch Haniger: One could expect a regression to the mean here, but I do see Haniger as trending up. For this I'll say no change, or minimal change.

CF: Dee Gordon -> Mallex Smith: This one is kind of hard to evaluate since Dee Gordon is going back to second. I'll say mild improvement because Mallex Smith provides the same value on the base paths, but he's a much better defender and actually gets on base.

LF: Denard Span -> Domingo Santana: Holding the assumption that this is based on 2019 projections, this one is a huge question mark. Santana put up a great year at the plate in 2017, and if he's able to replicate that then this would be an improvement. Span is going to be 35. Tough to say how Santana performs, but if he is an average of how he was 2016-2018 (.270/.355/.470 with an average of 24 HRs over a 162 game season), then this could be an improvement.

3B: Kyle Seager: He has not shown an ability to adjust to the shift on offense, his defense has taken a step back, and he is another year older. I would find it hard to reasonably argue that he can make an adjustment offensively. I'd expect a regression here, although I hope I'm wrong.

2B: Robinson Cano -> Dee Gordon: I expect Dee Gordon to have a better season in 2019 than he did in 2018 because he battled through injuries throughout the second half of the season. This can be shown through his decreased efficiency stealing bases and the fact that they had him attempt less steals. I still hold Robinson Cano in high regard and think he's a top-10 MLB 2B. So regression here.

SS: Jean Segura -> Tim Beckham/J.P. Crawford: This will be the biggest hit to the team. Even if J.P. Crawford meets the expectations lofted on him as a prospect, he will never be close to the player that Jean Segura is. If he doesn't meet expectations, then this position will have gone from a huge strength to a huge liability.

1B: Ryon Healy: Not much change here.

DH: Nelson Cruz -> Edwin Encarncion: Obviously it would be reasonable to expect that Nelson Cruz will regress, but even if he does regress substantially I expect that he will have a better year than Encarncion.

C: Mike Zunino -> Omar Narvaez: I think that Narvaez is the antithesis of Zunino. He's patient at the plate, but his defense is not pretty. Depending on how much you value pitch framing and defensive ability, I think this is a wash. Narvaez gives us more value at the plate, but that is offset by his defense.

Overall I'd say the position players as a group regress. The biggest thing that will tank the team is that the bullpen was gutted and that we lose James Paxton. The team won more games than it should have in 2018. They won 89 games but were more akin to a 80 win team or so. I'd expect that the current roster will win 75ish games +/- 5.

Basically, we have Santana, Smith, Narvaez, Encarnacion and Bruce replacing Cruz, Cano, Healy, Zunino, Segura, and Span.

I think with 7 of the 9 position, overall, the production will be about the same. Where they will come up considerably short is at second base and shortstop. Whereas Cano/Segura are probably good for 180 runs scored and 160 RBI, We probably should expect more than 130 runs scored and 80 RBI from Beckham/Gordon. My guess is that the team will score about 75-100 runs less than last year.

As for the pitching, I think overall the rotation will be slightly better but the bullpen will be much, much worse.

 

[PolarVortex]

Well ya, that’s what I’m saying. Hell there was more up an uproar back in 08 or whenever it was that news leaked the Mariners players hated and wanted to kick Ichiro’s ass.

Probably Lopez and Betancourt. Those guys were a couple of lazy douches anyway. Not that Ichiro's me-first attitude wasn't annoying.

 

[wazzu31]

Probably Lopez and Betancourt. Those guys were a couple of lazy douches anyway. Not that Ichiro's me-first attitude wasn't annoying.

I can’t remember which year it was, it was the year that essentially Bloomquist was the only on record interview then it leaked that people wanted to kick Ichiro’s ass. But I also thought if every single person was put in the other 24 players shoes they would want to also. Felix had to face the music after his starts and struggle with his broken English while Ichiro got an interrupter and got to give a list of questions to reporters to ask.

 

[Duders]

I think the answer is fairly obvious. I expect Ryon Healy to likely get more time at 1B than Bruce though.

Since I just downed a cup of coffee and cracked open a beer (I'm hungover and it's my bes- only cure), I'll look at it position by position. Assuming there are no injuries:

RF: Mitch Haniger: One could expect a regression to the mean here, but I do see Haniger as trending up. For this I'll say no change, or minimal change.

CF: Dee Gordon -> Mallex Smith: This one is kind of hard to evaluate since Dee Gordon is going back to second. I'll say mild improvement because Mallex Smith provides the same value on the base paths, but he's a much better defender and actually gets on base.

LF: Denard Span -> Domingo Santana: Holding the assumption that this is based on 2019 projections, this one is a huge question mark. Santana put up a great year at the plate in 2017, and if he's able to replicate that then this would be an improvement. Span is going to be 35. Tough to say how Santana performs, but if he is an average of how he was 2016-2018 (.270/.355/.470 with an average of 24 HRs over a 162 game season), then this could be an improvement.

3B: Kyle Seager: He has not shown an ability to adjust to the shift on offense, his defense has taken a step back, and he is another year older. I would find it hard to reasonably argue that he can make an adjustment offensively. I'd expect a regression here, although I hope I'm wrong.

2B: Robinson Cano -> Dee Gordon: I expect Dee Gordon to have a better season in 2019 than he did in 2018 because he battled through injuries throughout the second half of the season. This can be shown through his decreased efficiency stealing bases and the fact that they had him attempt less steals. I still hold Robinson Cano in high regard and think he's a top-10 MLB 2B. So regression here.

SS: Jean Segura -> Tim Beckham/J.P. Crawford: This will be the biggest hit to the team. Even if J.P. Crawford meets the expectations lofted on him as a prospect, he will never be close to the player that Jean Segura is. If he doesn't meet expectations, then this position will have gone from a huge strength to a huge liability.

1B: Ryon Healy: Not much change here.

DH: Nelson Cruz -> Edwin Encarncion: Obviously it would be reasonable to expect that Nelson Cruz will regress, but even if he does regress substantially I expect that he will have a better year than Encarncion.

C: Mike Zunino -> Omar Narvaez: I think that Narvaez is the antithesis of Zunino. He's patient at the plate, but his defense is not pretty. Depending on how much you value pitch framing and defensive ability, I think this is a wash. Narvaez gives us more value at the plate, but that is offset by his defense.

Overall I'd say the position players as a group regress. The biggest thing that will tank the team is that the bullpen was gutted and that we lose James Paxton. The team won more games than it should have in 2018. They won 89 games but were more akin to a 80 win team or so. I'd expect that the current roster will win 75ish games +/- 5.

Like your lineup projections but let's face it, many of those 89 wins the M's had in 2018 were 1 run wins and primarily due to Diaz shutting the door for those wins and the M's being "lucky" to pull off the 1 run lead to take the W. Without Diaz's outrageous 2018 season, at this point, those 1 run wins will be history for this coming season. With the current pen situation, the BP isn't going to do much to help the back end so I'm thinking if the starters can't go 5 or 6 solid innings the M's will be dead meat and if Dipoto doesn't do something with the pen they'll be dead meat most of the time anyway when the pen takes over.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Basically, we have Santana, Smith, Narvaez, Encarnacion and Bruce replacing Cruz, Cano, Healy, Zunino, Segura, and Span.

I think with 7 of the 9 position, overall, the production will be about the same. Where they will come up considerably short is at second base and shortstop. Whereas Cano/Segura are probably good for 180 runs scored and 160 RBI, We probably should expect more than 130 runs scored and 80 RBI from Beckham/Gordon. My guess is that the team will score about 75-100 runs less than last year.

As for the pitching, I think overall the rotation will be slightly better but the bullpen will be much, much worse.

Tough to say for the rotation. We essentially replace Paxton with Kikuchi who will be on a limited pitch count. I have to assume that Felix will be in the rotation until he once again proves he can no longer pitch. Wade LeBlanc was a nice surprise, but who knows if he can keep up that success. The bullpen will be a disaster though, although that doesn't matter since we're not competing.

Depending on how much you value OBP, you could argue that Narvaez is an offensive upgrade over Zunino, but as I mentioned there is substantial regression defensively there.

The frustrating thing is that for a rebuilding team, I think there is still enough talent on the roster to win 75 games or so. Not exactly helpful in an attempt to land a top draft pick.