Mel Kipers big board

[Clayton]

The combine absolutely is overrated IMO. I've read where many teams only place significant value on the interviews and the medical evaluations.

Its super useful, though. Dismissing the next Dontari Poe or Ezekiel Ansah isnt the smartest decision.

Many teams probably do put too much emphasis on the combine. The reality is that most 1st rounders bust to some degree. You're giving millions of dollars to very young men who have been worshiped for most of their adolescence and then telling them to play a ridiculously violent sport. There is no fool proof plan on drafting.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't know what they're doing scheme-wise. Some people think Bosa would be a fit in any scheme.

He could very well, but he looks like an NFL ready player as a 4-3 DE....he might be athletic enough to make the switch to OLB, but again, you're asking him to do something really new at the same time need him to perform at a starter level...Peppers was able to make the switch, but thus far Clowney has struggled to be an impact player when he's played....that's a risk for #2 overall.

 

[Tharvot]

He could very well, but he looks like an NFL ready player as a 4-3 DE....he might be athletic enough to make the switch to OLB, but again, you're asking him to do something really new at the same time need him to perform at a starter level...Peppers was able to make the switch, but thus far Clowney has struggled to be an impact player when he's played....that's a risk for #2 overall.

Possibly a risk, though Clowney is a poor comparison IMO since his work ethic was in question since the end of his sophomore season at South Carolina.

The flip side is taking a QB at #2 who will not start year 1 and likely won't be performing at a starter level for 2-3 years.

For a team that needs to rebuild on multiple fronts, taking the DE is the much safer bet considering none of the QBs are locks like Andrew Luck.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Its super useful, though. Dismissing the next Dontari Poe or Ezekiel Ansah isnt the smartest decision.

Many teams probably do put too much emphasis on the combine. The reality is that most 1st rounders bust to some degree. You're giving millions of dollars to very young men who have been worshiped for most of their adolescence and then telling them to play a ridiculously violent sport. There is no fool proof plan on drafting.

Nope.

Try as they might, but you really don't know the player until you've drafted them...some guys are just happy getting that 1st NFL contract, other guys want to be the best that ever played and it's hard to find that out in 15 mins.

We talked before...I really think TRich was content with his rookie contract and did just enough to get most of it.

I really think the combine is an opportunity for players coming off injury and especially players outside the top 100 or so to shine. The scouts probably have, but many of the NFL draft brass have never seen them up close an in person.

 

[HammerDown]

I see so much OL and DL talent there that would motivate me to trade down if I was the Titans GM.

 

[jarntt]

Its super useful, though. Dismissing the next Dontari Poe or Ezekiel Ansah isnt the smartest decision.

Many teams probably do put too much emphasis on the combine. The reality is that most 1st rounders bust to some degree. You're giving millions of dollars to very young men who have been worshiped for most of their adolescence and then telling them to play a ridiculously violent sport. There is no fool proof plan on drafting.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying teams put too much emphasis on the combine. I'm saying fans think that teams put more emphasis on it than they really do. i don't think teams put too much emphasis at all on the underwear Olympics. It is no doubt a valuable part of the draft process, but I don't think it is anywhere near as meaningful as some fans seem to think.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Kenneth Dixon as the 7th RB is interesting.

Love this kid. I've watched him 5-6x over last two years. He reminds me of Doug Martin to a certain extent.

He has great vision and can see a hole open up before it comes open. He has some wiggle, burst and explosive qualities to his running style. He isn't going to be a high speed factor but he does possess the ability to have some burst into second level. He's not a true long speed runner. He's not a true power back but most analysts tend to think he isn't capable of powering through the tackles to which he has proven wrong via tape however against questionable competition. He has a good stiff arm to derail DB's and LB's alike. He's better than average at pass-pro and is a really good receiving back whether it's tunne/bubble screens, quick outs or slants, wheel routes. He'll look the ball in and catches with hands most times versus allowing to come into his body. He'll miss a catch once in a great while but it's more lack of concentration than anything. He's not intimated by anyone.

 

[Clayton]

Love this kid. I've watched him 5-6x over last two years. He reminds me of Doug Martin to a certain extent.

He has great vision and can see a hole open up before it comes open. He has some wiggle, burst and explosive qualities to his running style. He isn't going to be a high speed factor but he does possess the ability to have some burst into second level. He's not a true long speed runner. He's not a true power back but most analysts tend to think he isn't capable of powering through the tackles to which he has proven wrong via tape however against questionable competition. He has a good stiff arm to derail DB's and LB's alike. He's better than average at pass-pro and is a really good receiving back whether it's tunne/bubble screens, quick outs or slants, wheel routes. He'll look the ball in and catches with hands most times versus allowing to come into his body. He'll miss a catch once in a great while but it's more lack of concentration than anything. He's not intimated by anyone.

Saw this blurb on him on NFL.com

"Averaged almost twice as many yards per carry after first contact (3.3) than before first contact (1.7)"

Not quite sure what to make of it other than I wouldn't want him as a feature back. As a rotation guy? I could see him being a very productive player. I just see a guy thats taken a lot of abuse already and is bound to take a lot more at the next level.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Mackenzie Alexander as #2 CB is interesting, too.

another kid I really like but he may come up shorter than 5' 10.

Imo, Hargreaves is most ready but this kid has all the tools to succeed in NFL. As usual with any incoming CFB CB it'll be an adjustment but MacKenzie shows fluidity in his hips, can turn and run with ease, solid footwork and imo 2nd or 3rd only to Hargreaves and K. Fuller, can play press man or off, jams or redirects WR's (no matter their size), a little to physical at times with his hands and will need to adjust. He has the ability to recover in the short and intermediate routes but might possibly struggle with 7,8,9 routes as he wasn't really tested all that much. He was shutting down Bama wr's, for the most part in the NCG. prior to his hamstring issue again. all jmo

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Possibly a risk, though Clowney is a poor comparison IMO since his work ethic was in question since the end of his sophomore season at South Carolina.

The flip side is taking a QB at #2 who will not start year 1 and likely won't be performing at a starter level for 2-3 years.

For a team that needs to rebuild on multiple fronts, taking the DE is the much safer bet considering none of the QBs are locks like Andrew Luck.

I hear the poor comparison about Clowney a lot and that might be true on work ethic, etc, no pushback from me there...I'm not comparing the players....only the circumstance.

If you remove the names, it's the perfect comparison in the sense of taking a player really high that excelled at one position or scheme in CFB and moving him to a different scheme at the pro level.

On the QB...that's the normal learning curve, I think the fan base understands that...the stop gap QB might get 3 or 4 games at the most.

I see it this way...if Bosa were a 3-4 OLB with the same hype, etc...this would be a no brainer pick. I'd take Bosa...but if I've got to figure out how to use him in my scheme...I'm adding to the learning curve for the player and making him less of an impact player initially and maybe permanently, thus not worth #2 overall....the bust potential is maybe not as great as the QB, but I need to figure the QB spot out badly and I've got a chance to get the best prospect off the board...even if I blow it, as the HC/GM I take the QB.

 

[shopson67]

Don't...idk what DEF Hue has hired, but with the big NT already in place it makes sense to stay 3-4...if so, Bosa may not be your guy...maybe he can play DE at 285-290 but that would be an big unknown to take a player so high.

These QBs might take a yr or two down the road, but the upside on the top 2 guys is better than anything the Browns have had talent wise in a long time...CLE gets 2 & 32...really two 1st rounders...not a bad strategy if Bosa was a good fit. Idk if he's good enough to revamp a scheme around.

If they're staying in the 3-4, Buckner and Robinson are better fits. Spence could fit as the Edge, but #2 is too high.

 

[shopson67]

Possibly a risk, though Clowney is a poor comparison IMO since his work ethic was in question since the end of his sophomore season at South Carolina.

The flip side is taking a QB at #2 who will not start year 1 and likely won't be performing at a starter level for 2-3 years.

For a team that needs to rebuild on multiple fronts, taking the DE is the much safer bet considering none of the QBs are locks like Andrew Luck.

Just not THAT DE IMO. I would go with DeForest Buckner.

 

[cdumler7]

How did he turn out? Point is the scouts know who is fast, strong, short, tall, strong arm, etc. The combine does nothing other than help them make their decision. No one (IMO of course) is ever drafted early solely on their combine. Some guys surprise or disappoint and change their draft status, but it is not nearly as important as the game film. The game film isn't always extensive or impressive. You don't need a scout to look at stats. You need a scout to watch a guy that only has 786 yards and watch every play to see if it was lack of opportunity or lack of talent.

DHB though at least from the analyst out there wasn't even close to be a 1st round talent. I mean it is why so many were shocked when the Raiders made the pick. Al Davis though like was said was a guy obsessed with speed. I think it was something like 3 drafts in a row where he took the guy with the fastest 40 and a couple of them were not even thought to have been a top-5 round draft pick but he would take them all pretty high. So yes there are some teams in the past that have made decisions based on athleticism compared to production.

I would also point to some guys that have worked out. Poe for example for the Chiefs had terrible production against very mediocre to bad competition. You watch his film and think this guy is maybe a 3rd round pick. He goes crazy at the Combine and teams take that 2nd look. The Chiefs decided that his athleticism was worth taking a risk on as they thought they could coach him up into a talented football player. They were able to do that. Every year we see teams draft guys who do well at the combine much higher than where they were first projected. The draft is just as much about past production as that of potential. Some players have maxed out their athletic ability and others you can tell have just scratched the surface. Now just a matter of can the coaching staff's coach these guys up into actual football players?

 

[shopson67]

Saw this blurb on him on NFL.com

"Averaged almost twice as many yards per carry after first contact (3.3) than before first contact (1.7)"

Not quite sure what to make of it other than I wouldn't want him as a feature back. As a rotation guy? I could see him being a very productive player. I just see a guy thats taken a lot of abuse already and is bound to take a lot more at the next level.

The guys with huge carry totals year after year would scare me off. That's a lot of wear and tear at a position that already has been devalued in recent years.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

If they're staying in the 3-4, Buckner and Robinson are better fits. Spence could fit as the Edge, but #2 is too high.

There are more DTs, than DEs in this draft, but I've heard the top 3-4 DE is Buckner, with Dodd, Lawson maybe a step behind...but a couple of the DTs look as if they are natural 3-4 DEs...Nkemdiche fits that player.

With the field so deep...somebody has to drop...@ 32 Does Bullard make sense? Actually I would probably go Braxton Miller @ 32...Maybe a Sheldon Day @ 65?

 

[shopson67]

There are more DTs, than DEs in this draft, but I've heard the top 3-4 DE is Buckner, with Dodd, Lawson maybe a step behind...but a couple of the DTs look as if they are natural 3-4 DEs...Nkemdiche fits that player.

With the field so deep...somebody has to drop...@ 32 Does Bullard make sense? Actually I would probably go Braxton Miller @ 32...Maybe a Sheldon Day @ 65?

There are a lot of options, but Buckner is at the top IMO, a beast.

I don't know that I would draft Miller that early. He's still such a developmental WR...

 

[Clayton]

Just not THAT DE IMO. I would go with DeForest Buckner.

Everyone is gushing about Buckner. Calais Campbell with the Reggie White pass rush move. I haven't looked at his tape yet because I don't think he'll fall out of the top 6-7 picks but he certainly fits the bill for the hyped defensive player of this draft.

There are more DTs, than DEs in this draft, but I've heard the top 3-4 DE is Buckner, with Dodd, Lawson maybe a step behind...but a couple of the DTs look as if they are natural 3-4 DEs...Nkemdiche fits that player.

With the field so deep...somebody has to drop...@ 32 Does Bullard make sense? Actually I would probably go Braxton Miller @ 32...Maybe a Sheldon Day @ 65?

Really deep DT draft. I like Chris Jones a lot as a 3-4 DE and he doesn't have much hype.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

There are a lot of options, but Buckner is at the top IMO, a beast.

I don't know that I would draft Miller that early. He's still such a developmental WR...

Buckner...I've probably seen him play once or twice, but most big boards I've seen have him as a top 5 player so it would make sense for him to be the top 3-4 DE for sure.

Miller...32 might be a tad early. I think he has great upside potential, has size, but some wiggle and deceptive speed...won't last much into the 2nd....the scouts would have to hard sell me on another guy that might be on the board at 65.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Everyone is gushing about Buckner. Calais Campbell with the Reggie White pass rush move. I haven't looked at his tape yet because I don't think he'll fall out of the top 6-7 picks but he certainly fits the bill for the hyped defensive player of this draft.


Really deep DT draft. I like Chris Jones a lot as a 3-4 DE and he doesn't have much hype.

I'm hoping for Sheldon Day at 78, but maybe be too late...PIT needs a rotation guy, 20-25 snap guy right now, not a starter.

 

[cdumler7]

Everyone is gushing about Buckner. Calais Campbell with the Reggie White pass rush move. I haven't looked at his tape yet because I don't think he'll fall out of the top 6-7 picks but he certainly fits the bill for the hyped defensive player of this draft.


Really deep DT draft. I like Chris Jones a lot as a 3-4 DE and he doesn't have much hype.

Some draft expert had Chris Jones mocked to the Broncos a week ago or so and made me curious. He definitely is a guy with a lot of potential. He has very heavy hands and plays with a lot of aggression. Needs a really good DL coach though to help harness the raw power and actually teach him the little technical issues. He is a guy that will play hard but probably needs a year before you see real production.