Mel Kipers big board

[shopson67]

Bosa's predicted fit is at 4-3 DE. It's a fit issue that makes him drop to 6.

 

[cowboycolors]

Personally, I kinda want the Browns to take Bosa at #2 overall and worry about a QB later on. None of the current crop wows me much.[/QUOTE]

You could have Montana, Marino, Unitas, Elway all sitting there in their prime with Cleveland picking and every NFL fan would be worried how Cleveland would screw them up . And that's not a shot at you. Somehow the Browns new owners management have messed up on every QB since they brought them back, with no long term solution in sight. I don't know if Modell cursed the city or what but something is bad bad bad wrong.

It was lots better IMHO when Cleveland was competitive. Good luck in this years draft no matter what the Browns choose.

 

[Stomp]

Some random dudes top 253 just posting it up for reference

 

[cdumler7]

Not a bad spread sheet by any means. I mean I can't come up with that many names so kudos to this guy for doing it. Obviously every one of us will have things we disagree with on the list. Such as for me Hackenberg and Cook are nowhere near #3 and 4 for the QB position in my book. They both have some major red flags to their game that to me are just too big to overcome. I would have Paxton Lynch and Dak Prescott over both of those guys.

 

[Clayton]

Not a bad spread sheet by any means. I mean I can't come up with that many names so kudos to this guy for doing it. Obviously every one of us will have things we disagree with on the list. Such as for me Hackenberg and Cook are nowhere near #3 and 4 for the QB position in my book. They both have some major red flags to their game that to me are just too big to overcome. I would have Paxton Lynch and Dak Prescott over both of those guys.

Dak Prescott seems a bit low but we are talking about guys who are projecting like Gabbert and Tebow so the odds of hitting a starting QB out of prospects like Prescott and Hackenberg are probably 25-30% at best.

I feel like whoever you put under Brandon Allen in a list is basically QBs you think are career backups because thats almost certainly who Brandon Allen is. A quality career backup.

A have a lot of discrepancies but it is a good list. Vernon Butler being the top NT is the one that jumps out at me because I figured he was perfect fit as a 4-3 DT but I could see him being a monster at the NT spot, too.

I wouldn't touch Carl Nassib with a 10 ft pole. I think he is being overrated here.

I think Aaron Burbridge is too low. A pedestrian athlete, sure, but a #2 WR that could be in the league for awhile.

I think Jaylon Smith could play any linebacker position he wants except 3-4 rush lb. I think picking him in the first round to be a 4-3 OLB is probably a bit of a waste.

Kenneth Dixon as the 7th RB is interesting. Mackenzie Alexander as #2 CB is interesting, too. Very polarizing prospects.

 

[cdumler7]

Dak Prescott seems a bit low but we are talking about guys who are projecting like Gabbert and Tebow so the odds of hitting a starting QB out of prospects like Prescott and Hackenberg are probably 25-30% at best.

I feel like whoever you put under Brandon Allen in a list is basically QBs you think are career backups because thats almost certainly who Brandon Allen is. A quality career backup.

A have a lot of discrepancies but it is a good list. Vernon Butler being the top NT is the one that jumps out at me because I figured he was perfect fit as a 4-3 DT but I could see him being a monster at the NT spot, too.

I wouldn't touch Carl Nassib with a 10 ft pole. I think he is being overrated here.

I think Aaron Burbridge is too low. A pedestrian athlete, sure, but a #2 WR that could be in the league for awhile.

I think Jaylon Smith could play any linebacker position he wants except 3-4 rush lb. I think picking him in the first round to be a 4-3 OLB is probably a bit of a waste.

Kenneth Dixon as the 7th RB is interesting. Mackenzie Alexander as #2 CB is interesting, too. Very polarizing prospects.

Yeah like I said we all have our favorites and part of it is how we see them fitting on a team. Such as for the Broncos with their 3-4 defense they need penetrating 1-gap style players. Other teams those guys are going to be rated much lower because they won't be able to handle the double teams like some of the others.

I do agree that Jaylon Smith is one of those freak prospects that I could see him starting so many places and doing well at all of them. I'm actually kind of hoping he falls a bit because he won't be able to play hardly any his first year and maybe the Broncos are able to get a top-7 talent and put him on the bench for a year.

Carl Nassib I agree is overrated. I see him stand up out of his stance many times because of his height instead of driving. He is just a very hot and cold type player. I don't think that is going to change.

RB to me seems like the hardest group to grade. Like I said so many of the guys it all depends what system they go to. I think Elliot is the type that can do well in about any system but any more it really does seem more about system fit than about overall talent at that position. It is why we are seeing so many late round guys thrive because coaches are scouting for a certain style of runner.

 

[jarntt]

Fair enough, obviously I have some homer in me… I think he has potential to become a star, but is more likely to have the type of career you predict.

Damn, you backed down quick on that one...

 

[Clayton]

RB to me seems like the hardest group to grade. Like I said so many of the guys it all depends what system they go to. I think Elliot is the type that can do well in about any system but any more it really does seem more about system fit than about overall talent at that position. It is why we are seeing so many late round guys thrive because coaches are scouting for a certain style of runner.

I agree. Elliot is almost certainly going to be a good NFL player but he is just a running back. Mark Ingram is a good NFL player and hasn't helped his team win squat.

Gurley probably won 2 games or so for the Rams last year and he broke off big runs. Big runs may or may not be sustainable.

Running back is important but there are so many good teams who just run a committee.

 

[huskers1217]

Bosa's predicted fit is at 4-3 DE. It's a fit issue that makes him drop to 6.

someone say hi to jadeveon clowney

 

[jarntt]

I think Bosa might end up being my 3rd highest rated pass rusher by the time this is done but I haven't really broken into all of the other players college 'film' yet. I'm also really curious to see Bosa's combine measurements and numbers. The big thing with JJ Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald is that their combine suggested that they were something really special. You really need to show explosiveness at the combine to be selected as the top pass rusher imo.

Wow, I can't possible disagree with this more. If an NFL team with all of their scouts judges a player based more on his combine than his play on the field they deserve to get burnt. Yeah, some future stars do real well at teh combine, but so did Vernon Gholston...Combine is for the interviews, the medical exams, the Kipers and the fans to watch these guys run...real scouts watch the game film

 

[cdumler7]

I agree. Elliot is almost certainly going to be a good NFL player but he is just a running back. Mark Ingram is a good NFL player and hasn't helped his team win squat.

Gurley probably won 2 games or so for the Rams last year and he broke off big runs. Big runs may or may not be sustainable.

Running back is important but there are so many good teams who just run a committee.

I agree. I would say there are maybe 3 RB's in this entire league that I would say are big reasons why their team wins games. AP, might be too early to say this but Gurley, and Bell. I mean we saw this year with a guy like Jamaal Charles where he got hurt and the team did better without him. Not saying he isn't a talent and they wouldn't love to have had him for the year but it just goes to show the devaluation of the RB position. It is why to me the FA class of RB's this year are going to find the market much tougher than they hoped. There are actually some decent names hitting the market but with so many of them all teams have to do is have a certain low price and just go down the list until one of them accepts. If none of them do then use a late round pick and still possibly get a starting caliber RB.

I will say I am interested to see how Henry does in the agility drills like the 3-cone. IF he can show he is more than just a straight line running back that tries to run over people he is a guy I could be intrigued by. The guy has talent for sure but I just worry about injuries with him and if all he can do is run straight ahead and try to run people over he is not going to last long in this league. Needs that little bit of wiggle to not take so many direct hits.

 

[shopson67]

Wow, I can't possible disagree with this more. If an NFL team with all of their scouts judges a player based more on his combine than his play on the field they deserve to get burnt. Yeah, some future stars do real well at teh combine, but so did Vernon Gholston...Combine is for the interviews, the medical exams, the Kipers and the fans to watch these guys run...real scouts watch the game film

Sure, but all those guys mentioned were all hugely productive at the college level. It's not like these guys were all hype and no substance. The combine just helped show that they can adjust to the speed/intensity of the next level. These guys have to pass the eye test too. None of these aspects (film, interviews, combine, background) should be left out. You need to get these kids accurately measured and compared physically to their peers.

 

[cdumler7]

Sure, but all those guys mentioned were all hugely productive at the college level. It's not like these guys were all hype and no substance. The combine just helped show that they can adjust to the speed/intensity of the next level. These guys have to pass the eye test too. None of these aspects (film, interviews, combine, background) should be left out. You need to get these kids accurately measured and compared physically to their peers.

There have been some guys drafted almost purely on their combine though in my opinion. I mean look at DHB drafted by the Raiders. His best season in college he had 786 yards. He only had 15 total touchdowns in 3 years of starting. Yet here he was taking top-10.

 

[shopson67]

There have been some guys drafted almost purely on their combine though in my opinion. I mean look at DHB drafted by the Raiders. His best season in college he had 786 yards. He only had 15 total touchdowns in 3 years of starting. Yet here he was taking top-10.

Al Davis is one of those guys that would get wrapped up in speed before all else. That was a bad pick from the beginning. 7th overall and the first WR? That was a bit of a underperforming WR class in general. Crabtree, Harvin, Nicks, Britt, Wallace, etc. Really, only Maclin and Edelman (7th round former QB) consistently amounted to much. Crabtree is a solid #2.

 

[jarntt]

There have been some guys drafted almost purely on their combine though in my opinion. I mean look at DHB drafted by the Raiders. His best season in college he had 786 yards. He only had 15 total touchdowns in 3 years of starting. Yet here he was taking top-10.

How did he turn out? Point is the scouts know who is fast, strong, short, tall, strong arm, etc. The combine does nothing other than help them make their decision. No one (IMO of course) is ever drafted early solely on their combine. Some guys surprise or disappoint and change their draft status, but it is not nearly as important as the game film. The game film isn't always extensive or impressive. You don't need a scout to look at stats. You need a scout to watch a guy that only has 786 yards and watch every play to see if it was lack of opportunity or lack of talent.

 

[Clayton]

How did he turn out? Point is the scouts know who is fast, strong, short, tall, strong arm, etc. The combine does nothing other than help them make their decision. No one (IMO of course) is ever drafted early solely on their combine. Some guys surprise or disappoint and change their draft status, but it is not nearly as important as the game film. The game film isn't always extensive or impressive. You don't need a scout to look at stats. You need a scout to watch a guy that only has 786 yards and watch every play to see if it was lack of opportunity or lack of talent.

The adage is that the combine confirms what you've seen on film.

People dissing the combine for rising players though are missing the bigger picture. The combine isnt overrated but every position has a floor.

You used Vernon Gholston as an example. He was overrated because of his college career and Sr Bowl, too. The other pass rushers in that draft were kinda bad, too.

The two things that are overrated are 40 time and bench press.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

In Kiper's latest mock draft he had Bosa going #6 overall

Sure, the guy you think is #1 overall will fall to 6, as 2 teams draft other defensive personnel ahead of him. Makes sense.

Personally, I kinda want the Browns to take Bosa at #2 overall and worry about a QB later on. None of the current crop wows me much.

Don't...idk what DEF Hue has hired, but with the big NT already in place it makes sense to stay 3-4...if so, Bosa may not be your guy...maybe he can play DE at 285-290 but that would be an big unknown to take a player so high.

These QBs might take a yr or two down the road, but the upside on the top 2 guys is better than anything the Browns have had talent wise in a long time...CLE gets 2 & 32...really two 1st rounders...not a bad strategy if Bosa was a good fit. Idk if he's good enough to revamp a scheme around.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Damn, you backed down quick on that one...

Not really. I'm still sky high on him, but do admit to being a homer. Which I said in the first place.

 

[Tharvot]

Don't...idk what DEF Hue has hired, but with the big NT already in place it makes sense to stay 3-4...if so, Bosa may not be your guy...maybe he can play DE at 285-290 but that would be an big unknown to take a player so high.

These QBs might take a yr or two down the road, but the upside on the top 2 guys is better than anything the Browns have had talent wise in a long time...CLE gets 2 & 32...really two 1st rounders...not a bad strategy if Bosa was a good fit. Idk if he's good enough to revamp a scheme around.

I don't know what they're doing scheme-wise. Some people think Bosa would be a fit in any scheme.

 

[jarntt]

The adage is that the combine confirms what you've seen on film.

People dissing the combine for rising players though are missing the bigger picture. The combine isnt overrated but every position has a floor.

You used Vernon Gholston as an example. He was overrated because of his college career and Sr Bowl, too. The other pass rushers in that draft were kinda bad, too.

The two things that are overrated are 40 time and bench press.

The combine absolutely is overrated IMO. I've read where many teams only place significant value on the interviews and the medical evaluations.