Mel Kipers big board

[ATL96Steeler]

This is where teams have to figure out what the heck they are even going to do with this player. Talent matters but fit matters almost as much in my opinion. To me a player like Tavon Austin in an offense like that of the Patriots is an All-Star in this league. Just get the ball in his hands 10 times a game and watch how this kid explodes. With the Rams lacking any kind of QB play though to get the ball in this kids hands he is just being wasted. Usually if you only have an average QB or worse you need the bigger style WR's that are not really known for YAC but more being able to catch the errant throws consistently.

TA...I agree...Antonio Brownish type skillset.

Why TA hasn't been more productive? I agree the QB play in general, but he probably needs to own some of it.

 

[shopson67]

Any clue what the team plans to do with the QB position? Seems like they are drafting way too late to get one of the top-2 guys at the position and FA not looking that great unless some teams don't get contracts done.

No clue. Fisher is still saying Case Keenum is the starter. They did pick Mannion in the 3rd last year, so he could be in the competition this year. They're probably stuck with Foles for another year, unless someone wants to trade bad contracts (with Philly who is reportedly considering cutting Celek and/or Peters?). I wouldn't mind them drafting a mobile guy on day 3 of the draft (Brissett, Adams, maybe even Boykin as a UDFA) to have a different style option as depth. Hogan is an interesting option if available on day 3 as well.

 

[Clayton]

This is where teams have to figure out what the heck they are even going to do with this player. Talent matters but fit matters almost as much in my opinion. To me a player like Tavon Austin in an offense like that of the Patriots is an All-Star in this league. Just get the ball in his hands 10 times a game and watch how this kid explodes. With the Rams lacking any kind of QB play though to get the ball in this kids hands he is just being wasted. Usually if you only have an average QB or worse you need the bigger style WR's that are not really known for YAC but more being able to catch the errant throws consistently.

Its....complicated.

Tavon Austin actually works really, really well with the Rams offense. The Rams just can't get him the ball. I read a really good piece on how Austin and Gurley meshed together in the Rams offense and its actually quite interesting. The Rams actually mix together power and zone read run concepts with Austin being a bit of a West coast element.

There are a lot of weird things going on with Austin's numbers. In his career, he has had 2-3 specials teams TDs called back and 2-3 big runs called back for holding and phantom holding calls. Then there is the fact that he is averaging 8.3 yards per carry. He is a real weapon but his lack of size means he can't really be a high usage player. I also think the Rams have Cook at TE really limited Austin because a team like the Rams couldn't afford to have 2 players that can't block at all. I also think he lacks a lot of basic elite WR skills to catch deep balls. Then of course there is the QB problem.

Austin isn't a bust exactly. He just wasn't the best pick. FootballOutsiders rated Austin as the worst WR in football last year but the #1 WR running the football in 2014 and 2015 and #2 in football in 2013.

He is a running back that lines up as a WR. I don't think a QB will change that. He is still a weapon. He isn't nearly as big of an issue on the Rams as Greg Robinson or Case Keenum or the TE position.

 

[shopson67]

FootballOutsiders rated Austin as the worst WR in football last year

That would seem to cast serious doubt on the validity of their rankings. He wasn't even the worst WR on the Rams.

 

[Clayton]

That would seem to cast serious doubt on the validity of their rankings. He wasn't even the worst WR on the Rams.

Worst WR that caught the minimum number of balls. A guy like Brian Quick was worse but wasn't a real factor either.

Game log

Week 1: 5 targets, 2 receptions, -2 Yards
Week 2: 3 targets, 1 reception, 6 yards
Week 5: 5 targets, 2 receptions, 6 yards
Week 9: 7 targets, 4 receptions, 15 yards
Week 10: 4 targets, 2 receptions, 5 yards
Week 11: 5 targets, 1 reception, 5 yards
Week 14: 5 targets, 3 receptions, 19 yards
Week 16: 7 targets, 3 receptions, 16 yards


These are for the WHOLE GAME. Thats awful for a top 10 pick and certainly deserving of least productive WR in the NFL per play. He broke 50 yards twice the whole season. Two games of average WR production. Two games with 98 yards. No breakout game the whole season of over 100 yards.

That is pathetic.

 

[SteelersPride]

Tavon had 186 touches on offense plus 47 returns his senior year (compared to Miller's 68 touches). He was a proven product already as a WR compared to Braxton. Besides, that trade up to pick him hasn't been that popular with Rams fans as the Rams have struggled to get Austin involved enough to justify that draft position.

Rams targeted way too high on Austin.

50 targets is nothing in this passing era...Wheaton was a 3rd rd pick and got 79 targets as the WR3...heck DWill got 47 targets.

Who to believe

 

[ducky]

I can not believe how high people have Conklin right now.

He'll be the least talented OL drafted in the top half of the 1st round that I have ever seen if he goes that high.

He's got enough ability and obvious smarts to possibly be a solid OL....but because of his lack of run blocking ability, you can't kick him inside if he fails against elite NFL speed on the edge. And while he wasn't giving up sacks, it still isn't like he was stoning pass rushers in the times I have seen him. He's a mid 2nd at best prospect IMO. Can't believe people are inching him into the top 10.

 

[Clayton]

I can not believe how high people have Conklin right now.

He'll be the least talented OL drafted in the top half of the 1st round that I have ever seen if he goes that high.

He's got enough ability and obvious smarts to possibly be a solid OL....but because of his lack of run blocking ability, you can't kick him inside if he fails against elite NFL speed on the edge. And while he wasn't giving up sacks, it still isn't like he was stoning pass rushers in the times I have seen him. He's a mid 2nd at best prospect IMO. Can't believe people are inching him into the top 10.

I tend to agree that he is probably a RT. Honestly, Stanley and maybe even Tunsil will be RTs from the start with Tunsil having the best shot at LT status.

OTs....so risky to develop but so important.

 

[cdumler7]

I tend to agree that he is probably a RT. Honestly, Stanley and maybe even Tunsil will be RTs from the start with Tunsil having the best shot at LT status.

OTs....so risky to develop but so important.

I think I read somewhere that only 2 OT's taken in the 1st 3 rounds of the draft have made it to the Pro Bowl in the last 5 years. I know it is at least a very low number. The spread offense in college is truly destroying OL prospects going into the pros. Heck they were doing a break down of Tunsil the other day and while they showed he has elite athleticism they said his technique is down right terrible. These guys are so badly trained at the college ranks that hardly any of them can come in right away on the outside and even look acceptable. Now the inside guys have had a little more success but it really is getting that much tougher to find instant help on the OL these days.

 

[cdumler7]

Its....complicated.

Tavon Austin actually works really, really well with the Rams offense. The Rams just can't get him the ball. I read a really good piece on how Austin and Gurley meshed together in the Rams offense and its actually quite interesting. The Rams actually mix together power and zone read run concepts with Austin being a bit of a West coast element.

There are a lot of weird things going on with Austin's numbers. In his career, he has had 2-3 specials teams TDs called back and 2-3 big runs called back for holding and phantom holding calls. Then there is the fact that he is averaging 8.3 yards per carry. He is a real weapon but his lack of size means he can't really be a high usage player. I also think the Rams have Cook at TE really limited Austin because a team like the Rams couldn't afford to have 2 players that can't block at all. I also think he lacks a lot of basic elite WR skills to catch deep balls. Then of course there is the QB problem.

Austin isn't a bust exactly. He just wasn't the best pick. FootballOutsiders rated Austin as the worst WR in football last year but the #1 WR running the football in 2014 and 2015 and #2 in football in 2013.

He is a running back that lines up as a WR. I don't think a QB will change that. He is still a weapon. He isn't nearly as big of an issue on the Rams as Greg Robinson or Case Keenum or the TE position.

Even a RB though you can find ways to get the ball in his hands. Austin should have elite separation skills off the LOS. The Rams really need to watch how the Patriots use Edelman. He isn't a natural receiver either but he uses his elite 1st and 2nd step to really gain the separation needed to make catches that much easier. He also isn't asked to run the deep routes but play within that 15 yards of the LOS where teams are forced to have to try and play more zone because nobody would be able to keep up with Austin.

Like I said I just think there is more the Rams could be doing to bring about success using the elite skills of Austin.

 

[SteelersPride]

Its....complicated.

Tavon Austin actually works really, really well with the Rams offense. The Rams just can't get him the ball. I read a really good piece on how Austin and Gurley meshed together in the Rams offense and its actually quite interesting. The Rams actually mix together power and zone read run concepts with Austin being a bit of a West coast element.

There are a lot of weird things going on with Austin's numbers. In his career, he has had 2-3 specials teams TDs called back and 2-3 big runs called back for holding and phantom holding calls. Then there is the fact that he is averaging 8.3 yards per carry. He is a real weapon but his lack of size means he can't really be a high usage player. I also think the Rams have Cook at TE really limited Austin because a team like the Rams couldn't afford to have 2 players that can't block at all. I also think he lacks a lot of basic elite WR skills to catch deep balls. Then of course there is the QB problem.

Austin isn't a bust exactly. He just wasn't the best pick. FootballOutsiders rated Austin as the worst WR in football last year but the #1 WR running the football in 2014 and 2015 and #2 in football in 2013.

He is a running back that lines up as a WR. I don't think a QB will change that. He is still a weapon. He isn't nearly as big of an issue on the Rams as Greg Robinson or Case Keenum or the TE position.

hes a gimmick

 

[shopson67]

Who to believe

What do you mean? We aren't contradicting each other. I was stating Austin's touches as a senior in college compared to Braxton Miller.

What he means by targeting too high on Austin was that they drafted him too early in the draft.

 

[shopson67]

Worst WR that caught the minimum number of balls. A guy like Brian Quick was worse but wasn't a real factor either.

Game log

Week 1: 5 targets, 2 receptions, -2 Yards
Week 2: 3 targets, 1 reception, 6 yards
Week 5: 5 targets, 2 receptions, 6 yards
Week 9: 7 targets, 4 receptions, 15 yards
Week 10: 4 targets, 2 receptions, 5 yards
Week 11: 5 targets, 1 reception, 5 yards
Week 14: 5 targets, 3 receptions, 19 yards
Week 16: 7 targets, 3 receptions, 16 yards


These are for the WHOLE GAME. Thats awful for a top 10 pick and certainly deserving of least productive WR in the NFL per play. He broke 50 yards twice the whole season. Two games of average WR production. Two games with 98 yards. No breakout game the whole season of over 100 yards.

That is pathetic.

Nice job leaving out the good games, btw. Regardless, as you noted yourself, the lack of targets/receptions was largely due to atrocious QB play and poor offensive scheme.

 

[SteelersPride]

Nice job leaving out the good games, btw. Regardless, as you noted yourself, the lack of targets/receptions was largely due to atrocious QB play and poor offensive scheme.

Plz, great players get the ball n make plays.

 

[SteelersPride]

Tavon had 186 touches on offense plus 47 returns his senior year (compared to Miller's 68 touches). He was a proven product already as a WR compared to Braxton. Besides, that trade up to pick him hasn't been that popular with Rams fans as the Rams have struggled to get Austin involved enough to justify that draft position.

This is what I was saying tavon was a college gimmick, not proven, he's still not in the Nfl . Some splash plays yeah. Largely inconsistent, he's tedd ginn

 

[shopson67]

Plz, great players get the ball n make plays.

Wide receivers need someone to put the ball in their hands.

 

[shopson67]

This is what I was saying tavon was a college gimmick, not proven, he's still not in the Nfl . Some splash plays yeah. Largely inconsistent, he's tedd ginn

What I was saying is that in comparison to Austin, Braxton is extremely raw as a receiver. If the upside of Braxton is that someday he MIGHT be Austin or Ginn, are you drafting him before day 3?

Factor in his 40 time of 4.5 today, and Braxton isn't as quick or fast as either of them. Edelman was a 7th round pick.

 

[SteelersPride]

Wide receivers need someone to put the ball in their hands.

U can make excuses but plenty good receivers make plays with bad qbs.....he was drafted top ten....

Decker, marshall, Landry, aj green, alshon Jeffrey, josh Gordon,Hopkins..... Would u like me to on with wr who don't have great qbs who make plays?

 

[SteelersPride]

What I was saying is that in comparison to Austin, Braxton is extremely raw as a receiver. If the upside of Braxton is that someday he MIGHT be Austin or Ginn, are you drafting him before day 3?

Factor in his 40 time of 4.5 today, and Braxton isn't as quick or fast as either of them. Edelman was a 7th round pick.

Right now Braxton offers more than ginn or Austin, size, speed, field knowledge, and as good route running as those two who ran screens n flys

 

[Clayton]

Still don't think Braxton is a top 50 pick. Lots of #2, #3 wrs that aren't projects