Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[gandydancer]

For all the talk about OL.

I would have to imagine most of the Lions fans here would be stoked if Matthews somehow fell to #10 and the Lions picked him.

I would if it was Robinson. Not going to happen. Don't want Matthews, don't like guys from quick strike college offenses! Not sure they are ready to sustain blocks. I rated Robinson at top of my big board. I also see the run game gaining momentum for this season. He is a mauler who would be awesome along side Warford. Waddle move into guard next season and after getting Richburg at C my dream line is set for years

Now back from dream land, draft a DB...

 

[gandydancer]

27 more days of this shit.

 

[lionstop1]

Rolling,

Drafting Watkins allows that group to be very interchangeable and versatile. CJ doesn't have to be on the field 100% of the plays and neither does Tate. If they drafted Watkins, especially in a trade up, he wont be warming the bench.

Jdwillis,

No offense, but I couldn't see any GM saying not to draft a player because there's not enough balls to go around. Do you think the Broncos would pass on Watkins?

 

[Rollingthndr]

I didn't say Watkins would sit the bench, Tate definitely wouldn't start over Watkins. All due respect to AJ Green, Julio and Gordon but I think Watkins is the best WR to come out since CJ. I'd still rather have Clowney if we are going to trade up though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I didn't say Watkins would sit the bench, Tate definitely wouldn't start over Watkins. All due respect to AJ Green, Julio and Gordon but I think Watkins is the best WR to come out since CJ. I'd still rather have Clowney if we are going to trade up though.

What makes you believe Watkins is a better prospect than AJ Green, Julio Jones and Josh Gordon? I included Josh Gordon, but he wasn't as highly touted coming out as the other two, as he was a supplemental draft pick.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

No offense, but I couldn't see any GM saying not to draft a player because there's not enough balls to go around. Do you think the Broncos would pass on Watkins?

Right now -- yes, the Broncos would pass on Watkins. They have about a 2 year window left with Manning and defense is their biggest priority, which is why they let Decker walk and signed a cheaper replacement, while spending their money to upgrade the defense with Talib, TJ Ward and DeMarcus Ware.

It wouldn't have matter if the Broncos had Watkins and Mike Evans, along with the rest of their WR's. Seattle pummeled them in the Super Bowl after they had arguably the best offense in the history of the NFL in the regular season.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Do you think the Broncos would pass on Watkins?

The Broncos built their roster of WR's much differently than the Lions. Thomas was the 22nd pick in the 1st round. Eric Decker was a 3rd round pick. Julian Thomas was a 4th round pick. Wes Welker was signed to a 2 year/12 million dollar contract.

If you want to see how a team should draft WR's -- look no further than Denver. In the past 10 years -- here on the WR's they have picked in the top 4 rounds of the draft:

2010 1st round -- Demaryius Thomas
2010 3rd round -- Eric Decker
2008 2nd round -- Eddie Royal
2006 4th round -- Brandon Marshall
2006 4th round -- Domenick Hixon

Are those picks any good?

If Detroit take Watkins #2 overall, it would give them Calvin Johnson as the #2 pick, Watkins as the #2 pick, Tate as a 5 year 31 million dollar FA and Brandon Pettigrew as the #20 pick.

You see the difference and understand why the defense is lacking the same type of talent as the offense?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Drafting Watkins allows that group to be very interchangeable and versatile. CJ doesn't have to be on the field 100% of the plays and neither does Tate. If they drafted Watkins, especially in a trade up, he wont be warming the bench.

It'd make Watkins and Tate interchangeable, but Calvin Johnson should never come off the field when he is healthy.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

One last question while I'm in a posting frenzy -- I thought I read on here people talking about Calvin Johnson being 30 and needing to find a replacement, as one of the reasons why trading up for Watkins makes sense.

I just came across something on Calvin Johnson and he is only 28. He won't be 29 until September.

 

[Microwahevo]

You see the difference and understand why the defense is lacking the same type of talent as the offense?

Dont try and make it seem like Denver has some unstoppable force on defense bc of the way they've drafted their WRs. They were below us in defensive scoring, passing and rushing yards a game and only had two more fumbles and INTs. So it's not like they had a great D. Many games ended up being shoot outs.

Everyone was on Denver's jock until they got shutdown in the SB. Then everyone jumped on Seattle's jock and thinks that's how a team needs to be to win a SB. Truth is, there's many ways to create a winning team. Obviously we have lacked in building a winning team, but we've put some nice pieces in place. And IMO, our first round pick is gonna land us a bonafide star from day one, albeit on offense or defense. I personally would rather see us take Evans at 10 than to trade up for Watkins, but as long as we don't give away the farm, I'd be ok with it. And if we draft a defensive player other than Dennard, I'll be ok as well.

I just think you might wanna come to terms with the fact that we juuuuust might take Watkins. And it doesn't mean all is lost. Just saying.

 

[lionstop1]

Every player should get a breather. CJ will be 29, which is still getting up there.

 

[lionstop1]

There's really no sound argument for not going to get Watkins other than not wanting to lose the picks. Even though I would love Watkins, I would still be praying that the decision was a good one. If they gave up the 1st and 2nd, I think they would still come out with some steals. A 3rd and three 4th ain't too shabby.

 

[gandydancer]

Dont try and make it seem like Denver has some unstoppable force on defense bc of the way they've drafted their WRs. They were below us in defensive scoring, passing and rushing yards a game and only had two more fumbles and INTs. So it's not like they had a great D. Many games ended up being shoot outs.
.

I had same response after his post. MikeD you had a decent arguement going till I looked at the Broncos drafts. The Broncos actaully drafted just like Lions have for the most part. That is were you would have made sense. Although this what you have said all along. "Shiny new toys for offense"

2010 draft No 4th
D.Thomas 22 . CB 5th 137
Teblow 25 .C again 183
Beadles OT 45 .CB 225
Walton C 80 .DE 232
Decker 87

2008 draft
Clady 12 . DT 149
Royal 42 .LB 183
C 108 . S 220
CB 119 . FB 227 Hillis wow didn't know
RB 139

2006 draft
Traded picks for Cutler
Scheffler
Brandon Marshall
Dumervil
Hixon
C center
plus traded a pick for Javon Walker

All in all Mike. The hole story of these drafts actaully show a path you have said all offense no defense. Get to the show and stopped by dominate defense. Big picture shows what you said for months.

You see difference the way Denver drafted similar to Detroit and lacked talent on defense is better.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is.... Why sign a fullback,resign J.Bell and Pettidrops who is mainly a blocker if you weren't trying to set up a running game. Trading up and getting Watkins would mean you would have to sit Tate half the time. What is the point of giving a guy 5 million a year to sit on the bench?

Makes sense in theory, but then if you watch some of the shit New Orleans ran/runs, you'll understand... They go 5 wide, 4 wide, 3 wide, two TE single back, one TE two backs, jumbo, three backs- they literally seem to try to trow out as many formations as possible to take advantage of what the opposing defense doesn't do well. They're very, very multiple, which is a great thing to be, imo...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I would if it was Robinson. Not going to happen. Don't want Matthews, don't like guys from quick strike college offenses! Not sure they are ready to sustain blocks. I rated Robinson at top of my big board. I also see the run game gaining momentum for this season. He is a mauler who would be awesome along side Warford. Waddle move into guard next season and after getting Richburg at C my dream line is set for years

Now back from dream land, draft a DB...

Imo, if we land Robinson, he displaces Reiff at LT and Reiff kicks inside to LG... Robinson is widely expected to be the first tackle off the board from what I'm seeing, and RTs just don't go in the top 5 like that. Also, if we have to chose between Reiff and Waddle (hypothetically, of course) to stay at tackle while the other moves to guard, I'm keeping Waddle at tackle because of his build vs. Reiff's. I think both could be great right tackles, but I don't think Waddle would fare as well at guard as Reiff would...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Right now -- yes, the Broncos would pass on Watkins. They have about a 2 year window left with Manning and defense is their biggest priority, which is why they let Decker walk and signed a cheaper replacement, while spending their money to upgrade the defense with Talib, TJ Ward and DeMarcus Ware.

It wouldn't have matter if the Broncos had Watkins and Mike Evans, along with the rest of their WR's. Seattle pummeled them in the Super Bowl after they had arguably the best offense in the history of the NFL in the regular season.

One game. Seattle crushed them, but it was one game. Play that game ten times and I promise that outcome would not be the norm. Seattle had a great game plan and jumped all over Denver right from the get-go. That doesn't mean that they have the end-all, be-all plan for winning in the NFL, otherwise you'd see defensive clubs like them winning the Super Bowl more often, rather than once or twice a decade (maybe 3 or 4 times if you want to count the Giants as a "defensive" team...)

Besides, we'd be foolish to copy Seattle's blue print- their success hinges on being able to get away with about 75 blatant PI calls each and every game. Seriously, the refs could very easily call pass interference/holding/illegal contact on every single passing play against the Squawks- watch any game film of theirs, the CBs don't disengage from the WRs after 5 yards- supposed to be an automatic 5 yard penalty and a 1st down. But it doesn't get called because they somehow have a "reputation" as being a physical secondary, and, apparently, because of that the normal NFL rules don't apply to them.

Give the Lions Seattle's entire secondary, man for man, and watch them become the most penalized team in league history. The Lions would never, ever, get the benefit of the doubt like the good teams do (we've all seen this first hand), so trying to copy Seattle's style wouldn't be wise for us...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Dont try and make it seem like Denver has some unstoppable force on defense bc of the way they've drafted their WRs. They were below us in defensive scoring, passing and rushing yards a game and only had two more fumbles and INTs. So it's not like they had a great D. Many games ended up being shoot outs.

Where did I say Denver had an unstoppable defense? I they built their WR corp much different than Detroit. They used one 1st pick on the position (22nd overall). The rest of them were a 3rd round choice for Decker, 4th round choice for Julian Thomas, and they signed Welker to a 2 year deal.

If you want to look at a draft where Denver had the identical picks Detroit would have this upcoming year -- 2011 -- Denver had the #2 pick with the opportunity to take AJ Green or Julio Jones without giving up any picks. They went with Von Miller.

The last 3 years -- Denver has spent their 1st pick of the draft on defense. Since 2000, Detroit has spent their 1st pick of the draft on defense 4 times.

 

[tpaulus_2]

One last question while I'm in a posting frenzy -- I thought I read on here people talking about Calvin Johnson being 30 and needing to find a replacement, as one of the reasons why trading up for Watkins makes sense.

I just came across something on Calvin Johnson and he is only 28. He won't be 29 until September.

Exactly! And thank you!

A.) The guy won't be 30 till the 2015 season.

B.) I've said this before, but only a few people seem to see it the same from what I can tell- 30 years old is only (ONLY ONLY ONLY!!!) the proverbial "wall" for running backs! Other positions don't just magically drop off at 30. RBs do because of the punishment they take, but even then it's really more about total carries than age. Look at guys like Darren Sproles and Reggie Bush who didn't get 300 carries a year for their first 5 years in the league... 30 doesn't mean shit to them because their bodies are still comparatively fresh. WRs in particular seem to play well into their 30s- the greats all seem to go strong till 35, and still have a few lesser years in them after that. Jerry Rice (obviously he was exceptional in his longevity) put up over 1,000 yards at 39 years old.

Megatron has every bit of 5 elite seasons left in him. Please can we, as a group, move past this "OMG, he's going to be 30?!" nonsense for players who aren't RBs? Every other position still has 5 good years (at least) left in them once they hit 30, minus some time if they have a nasty injury history, of course. But general rule of thumb is that 30 is the wall for RBs, and somehow that's slowly crept into being thought of as the case for every position- but it's not.

There, my rant is done. My apologies...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Everyone was on Denver's jock until they got shutdown in the SB. Then everyone jumped on Seattle's jock and thinks that's how a team needs to be to win a SB. Truth is, there's many ways to create a winning team.

This.

And if we draft a defensive player other than Dennard, I'll be ok as well.

And this.

 

[Microwahevo]

Megatron has every bit of 5 elite seasons left in him. Please can we, as a group, move past this "OMG, he's going to be 30?!" nonsense for players who aren't RBs? Every other position still has 5 good years (at least) left in them once they hit 30, minus some time if they have a nasty injury history, of course. But general rule of thumb is that 30 is the wall for RBs, and somehow that's slowly crept into being thought of as the case for every position- but it's not.

My pov has always been that it isn't about his age(in fact I've never mentioned it). However, it's the beatings he's taken from being double and triple teamed that I'm concerned about.