Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[tpaulus_2]

Every player should get a breather. CJ will be 29, which is still getting up there.

No it's not- see above.

29 is getting up there for a RB. It's not getting up there for a WR, QB, TE, FB, Tackle, Center, Guard, DE, DT, OLB, MLB, ILB, CB, Safety, Kicker, Punter, KR/PR, or Long Snapper.

Let's review- 29 year old RB? Almost done in 90% of the cases. Everyone else? Still 5 good years left in their body. Now ability is a different story- most guys don't have 12-15 year long careers, but it's more about talent than their bodies starting to fail them. The greats, and Megatron obviously is, play well well into their 30's. Megaton is still 110% in his prime right now. He's not even close to "getting up there" at this point.

Ok, NOW my rant is done! (we hope...)

 

[Microwahevo]

Where did I say Denver had an unstoppable defense?

Nowhere. I was stretching.

However, you did say our picks for our offense shows why we don't have the same type of talent on D and used Denver's picks in comparison. I simply stated the stats on Denver's D to show they aren't any better than ours bc they DIDNT draft like us. It just goes to show that teams don't have to draft similar to have similar offenses and defenses.

 

[tpaulus_2]

My pov has always been that it isn't about his age(in fact I've never mentioned it). However, it's the beatings he's taken from being double and triple teamed that I'm concerned about.

He's been getting banged up, to be sure, and we do need to upgrade our WR corps in a bad way to limit those beatings. However, the beating he takes relative to a RB who gets his shit rocked all game, every game, is pretty minimal in comparison. Imo, Megatron's height makes his knees more vunrable due to the fact that they're basically near waist level on most WRs, so he's taking a lot more shots to the knees that most receivers do.

While upgrading the talent at his position will be a big help, the biggest way to minimize the bad hits (and particularly the bad falls) he's taking is for Stafford to get his footwork down so he becomes more accurate and stops causing Megaton to jump at full extension over the middle when hitting him in stride would result in a better gain (run after the catch) and no falling into a plie of DBs/LBs from 12 feet up in the air...

 

[Microwahevo]

The greats, and Megatron obviously is, play well well into their 30's. Megaton is still 110% in his prime right now. He's not even close to "getting up there" at this point.

When you have to rest3-4 days after games, everything isn't hunky dory. Dude is getting beat up.

Now that's not me discrediting his ability or heart. He goes out there and gives it his all when he can. He obviously knows his body better than anyone. Example, the Cleveland game. I was there and watched him struggle. But....he at least made an effort. Him being in there as a decoy still helped.

But we can't have many games like that with him. We need him healthy. And drafting Watkins or Evans doesn't guarantee that. But, imo, it gives us a WR that can actually do damage, one-on-one). Can you say the same about Durham? Ogletree? Ross? Bc that's where we're at after CJ goes down(I didn't state Tate bc he would be the one drawing double teams at that point).

 

[Microwahevo]

While upgrading the talent at his position will be a big help, the biggest way to minimize the bad hits (and particularly the bad falls) he's taking is for Stafford to get his footwork down so he becomes more accurate and stops causing Megaton to jump at full extension over the middle when hitting him in stride would result in a better gain (run after the catch) and no falling into a plie of DBs/LBs from 12 feet up in the air...

I agree with this. Stafford does need to work on that shit and stop worrying about what ice cream shop is catering the desserts at his wedding. (I kid I kid).

 

[tpaulus_2]

I agree with this. Stafford does need to work on that shit and stop worrying about what ice cream shop is catering the desserts at his wedding. (I kid I kid).

In response to your avatar, the answer is: What is "sweep the leg," Alex?

 

[broncosmitty]

29 is definitely getting up there. Look at Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Keyshaun Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald when they got to that age. (Or round about that age.). The body can only take so much. Production drops when athletic ability does. And Jerry Rice is truely one of a kind. (Unless you want to count Tim Brown, who didn't see a whole ton of action his first four years.). Im never going to be in the "find a replacement" for CJ camp, because that's just stupid. As he's irreplaceable. But Im not going to kid myself into thinking he'll be a top receiver or a physical freak much longer. It's his physicality that sets him apart and I doubt that ages well.

 

[Old Lion]

29 is definitely getting up there. Look at Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Keyshaun Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald when they got to that age. (Or round about that age.). The body can only take so much. Production drops when athletic ability does. And Jerry Rice is truely one of a kind. (Unless you want to count Tim Brown, who didn't see a whole ton of action his first four years.). Im never going to be in the "find a replacement" for CJ camp, because that's just stupid. As he's irreplaceable. But Im not going to kid myself into thinking he'll be a top receiver or a physical freak much longer. It's his physicality that sets him apart and I doubt that ages well.

None of those guys are 6'5 240 either so they could not take the abuse CJ takes for as long. I think he will have another 3 or 4 elite years and then another 2 to 3 good ones. Once he hits 35 he probably will decline although he could probably play TE at that point, LOL.

Still, I would prefer Barr as the first pick or trade back with Miami. There will be plenty of decent WRs in the next 2 rounds.

 

[broncosmitty]

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. (What receivers are there that are his size? Tightends were about the same size in decades past.) His size won't be a good thing for longevity. Hard to keep a big body moving quickly for too long. I doubt he's considered the best receiver after this season.

 

[lionstop1]

The ideal situation is to keep CJ as healthy as possible throughout the rest of his career. Thats why his age is a factor too. You dont want your best player to be running around at 30 continuing to take tons of punishment. Do you really want to pay a guy 20+ million a season and he barely can practice? Im not quite understanding some of the things that suggest that CJ doesn't need any help or rest. Im lost on that one.

On another note:

TP laid out some of the things N.O does with their offense as far as packages and such. Just by looking at that, the Lions dont even have the personel to do some of those things. Especially with going 4 and 5 wide.

 

[tpaulus_2]

29 is definitely getting up there. Look at Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Keyshaun Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald when they got to that age. (Or round about that age.). The body can only take so much. Production drops when athletic ability does. And Jerry Rice is truely one of a kind. (Unless you want to count Tim Brown, who didn't see a whole ton of action his first four years.). Im never going to be in the "find a replacement" for CJ camp, because that's just stupid. As he's irreplaceable. But Im not going to kid myself into thinking he'll be a top receiver or a physical freak much longer. It's his physicality that sets him apart and I doubt that ages well.

Moss put up 3 great seasons from age 30 to 32, including an NFL record 23 TDs in a season.

Chad Johnson had a big season at age 31. His decline was as much to do with him being a dumbass as anything else.

In his 31 and 32 year old seasons, Steve Smith posted 152 receptions for 2,568 yards.

In his 5 seasons from 30 to 34 years old Keyshawn Johnson totaled 332 receptions.

Larry Fitzgerald just turned 30 this season and celebrated by hauling in 82 balls for 954 balls and 10 TDs.

Glad we looked at those examples!

How 'bout some of these guys:

Andre Johnson: 31 year old season- 112 receptions, 1,598 yards.
32 year old season (last year w/ craptastic QB play) 109 receptions, 1407 yards.

That's 221 receptions and over 3,000 yards in the last two seasons, both over 30 years old.

Marvin Harrison: In the five seasons after he turned 30 (age 30 to 34) Harrison went off for an even 500 receptions for 6,619 yards and 60 TDs. He celebrated turning 30 by hauling in 143 passes. He never caught less than 82 in a season over that 5 year span while averaging 100 receptions, 1,323 yards and 12 TDs per year.

Terrell Owens: In 7 seasons after turning 30 T.O. put up 486 receptions for 7,316 yards and 72 TDs. He put up 72 grabs for 982 yards and 9 TDs at age 36.

Jerry Rice: In his 11 seasons from age 30 to age 41 (subtracting his 1997 season that he lost to injuty after only 1 full game) Rice was an ok receiver, too. He put up 904 receptions for 13,316 yards and 100 TDs.

He put up 92 receptions for 1,211 and 7 TDs at 40 fucking years old. He was, and remains, the g.o.a.t. WR in my book.


Anywho, I've looked up these numbers in an argument before, so I was prepared to debate this particular topic. I'd like to thank my debate partner, Smitty, for offering me this opportunity to throw up a shit-ton of numbers...

 

[tpaulus_2]

None of those guys are 6'5 240 either so they could not take the abuse CJ takes for as long. I think he will have another 3 or 4 elite years and then another 2 to 3 good ones. Once he hits 35 he probably will decline although he could probably play TE at that point, LOL.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. (What receivers are there that are his size? Tightends were about the same size in decades past.) His size won't be a good thing for longevity. Hard to keep a big body moving quickly for too long. I doubt he's considered the best receiver after this season.

Based on?

 

[tpaulus_2]

None of those guys are 6'5 240 either so they could not take the abuse CJ takes for as long. I think he will have another 3 or 4 elite years and then another 2 to 3 good ones.

This math takes him right to 34 or 35 years old, which is right in-line with where most of the other all-time great WRs finally fell off...

 

[broncosmitty]

Based on?

I thought my previous two posts laid that out pretty well.

 

[lionstop1]

TrustmeImright,

To me, it never really makes sense for fans to say a team should draft a particular way, then bring forth examples. The draft is a crap-shoot for one and its also about opportunity. We needed for the team to make better choices within the positions they chose. If they wouldve got it right with a lot of the offensive picks, we wouldnt even be discussing this.

Are teams supposed to draft strictly for needs? Are teams supposed to dive all their drafts and picks so that both the offense and defense recieve an equal amount of players? Are teams suddenly supposed to copy the blueprint of the S.B champs every year?

 

[broncosmitty]

This math takes him right to 34 or 35 years old, which is right in-line with where most of the other all-time great WRs finally fell off...

The math? Did you look at statistics for any of the receivers I listed? Each of them saw their best years in their late 20's and were just regular receivers after that. Art Monk is another guy Id list with Rice as an anomaly though. But that's only two great receivers who had high end success after 29-30. Almost every "great" receiver has had a drastic drop in production at or around the age CJ is at now.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I thought my previous two posts laid that out pretty well.

Well shit... I thought mine refuted it pretty well.

It would appear that we're at an impasse, good sir...

 

[tpaulus_2]

The math? Did you look at statistics for any of the receivers I listed? Each of them saw their best years in their late 20's and were just regular receivers after that. Art Monk is another guy Id list with Rice as an anomaly though. But that's only two great receivers who had high end success after 29-30. Almost every "great" receiver has had a drastic drop in production at or around the age CJ is at now.

Did you skip right over that 12 page novel where I laid out what those guys you listed did past age 30, and then threw out some of the other all time great WRs and what they did after 30? Yes- some saw their best years before 30, but they still played at a rate well above "regular" WRs into their mid 30s. Other guys saw their best statistical stretches from 28 to 33, so there's more then one angle on this topic. Marvin Harrison, Terrell Owens, Art Monk (as you mentioned), and especially Jerry Rice were elite WRs until age 35 or so.

All those guys listed were just guys I could think of off the top of my head that were top-10 (ish) all time WRs. I'd bet if I looked up the list of the top-10 all-time receiving leaders at WR I'd find that this trend of elite WRs producing at a high level into their mid-30s would continue with most of them.

 

[Rollingthndr]

What makes you believe Watkins is a better prospect than AJ Green, Julio Jones and Josh Gordon? I included Josh Gordon, but he wasn't as highly touted coming out as the other two, as he was a supplemental draft pick.

Because Watkins has better hands than those three and quicker acceleration (especially in and out of breaks). The only thing those three have on him is the height to high point the ball in contested situations.