Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[lionstop1]

IMO, If the Lions are really planning on moving up to take Watkins its because they believe they have something on defense that we just dont know. I can see where the "need" for certain positions on defense come in to play, but we have no clue what their thoughts are and what the plan actually is. Though, I would love a better CB, I can see reason not to use a high pick on one because they have a ton of young guys that need to play and continue to develop. At LB, I can see the need for the OLB, but I also see that a pass-rushing OLB can be found later and even through the next wave of free agents.

The D-line is a concern at this moment but if Suh extends, its really not bad. They might really like Taylor or Jones at DE and maybe they do keep Fairley. There is no dire need for a safety either. So while the defense needs some work, its not like its the end of the world.

Teams should go after guys they "like" no matter what, especially if they are in the elite class. As an organization, you never want to pigieon-hole yourself into saying you have to pick player A because you need to fill the position. Instead, you look at things and evaluate what the opportunities are and what your needs are. Then, build a plan.

I have this feeling that some of you think the Lions are doing this simply because Watkins is a WR and they puposely ignore the defense or anything else. I dont believe that.

Watkins or Evans would be a valuable asset to this team.

 

[lionstop1]

Lets keep in mind that us fans are the ones that gave up on Houston, dont like Ihedigbo because of his past stat-line, dont like Palmer or Whitehead, gave up on Fairley and dont really know what's going on at the other DE spot. None of this is in line with what the coaches think and know.

We knew what the old staff wanted but not this one. Lombardi and Caldwell may have a different outlook on our offense than those other guys. They may use them differently. Austin may like Palmer or someone else, who knows.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Big Blue,

Those teams were pretty stacked up. The argument against that in Detroit has been things like; Detroit has the greatest player ever, they already have Golden Tate, thier running backs can catch a thousand balls and Detroit always drafts wide receivers.

Yep and he rarely practiced during the week except on Friday's in 2013... hhhmmmm.... I'm worried as hell regarding the WR corps should he go down at all or for any length of time.

As I've stated, my preference is DT Aaron Donald bc the three main DT's we have right now (Suh, Fairley, CJ Mosley) are all on their last contract year. Suh is not a given to extend even though we think it is. Maybe, just maybe, he told Mayhew he wants play somewhere closer to his home in Portland, Oregon. There's no telling what's going on with him.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Lets keep in mind that us fans are the ones that gave up on Houston, dont like Ihedigbo because of his past stat-line, dont like Palmer or Whitehead, gave up on Fairley and dont really know what's going on at the other DE spot. None of this is in line with what the coaches think and know.

We knew what the old staff wanted but not this one. Lombardi and Caldwell may have a different outlook on our offense than those other guys. They may use them differently. Austin may like Palmer or someone else, who knows.

Houston had a horrible year last year. I expect him to bounce back. He has never been considered a true #1 CB even though he has played that position for us. The questions surrounding Ihedigbo are valid when seeing only one year as a starter and not fairing well in N.E. Palmer was merely a special teams ace prior to last year and was removed for nickel situations and that may change this year with the new staff just as much as it may change utilizing Whitehead. Schwartz, JMO, played his favorites. A great coach can take average players by using them to their strengths not what they force them to become. I'd be worried about DE Jason Jones coming back from that patellar tear as it's a more difficult injury to rehab from than just an "ACL tear only" not to mention he's 27 and not a freak like A.P.

 

[lionstop1]

To me, a lot of the draft is about opportunity.

These teams spend countless amounts of time going through the process of figuring out what works for them from an opportunity standpoint. Teams conduct their own mocks and most teams probably have an idea what player will be avaiable and who wont. This is one way they decide whether trading up may be worth it.

For example; Lions probably figure players like Donald and Gilbert are very likely to be there at 10 and at 45, possibly players like Shazier, Ward and a WR like Matthews. Then, they probably combine the groups in different ways and compare it to the likes of trading up for a Watkins or whoever. Is it worth taking the two guys over the elite prospect?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

To me, a lot of the draft is about opportunity.

These teams spend countless amounts of time going through the process of figuring out what works for them from an opportunity standpoint. Teams conduct their own mocks and most teams probably have an idea what player will be avaiable and who wont. This is one way they decide whether trading up may be worth it.

For example; Lions probably figure players like Donald and Gilbert are very likely to be there at 10 and at 45, possibly players like Shazier, Ward and a WR like Matthews. Then, they probably combine the groups in different ways and compare it to the likes of trading up for a Watkins or whoever. Is it worth taking the two guys over the elite prospect?

As in an immediate impact player for this team and beyond for future years, considering this "win now mode" as in the next 3 years or sooner, by or before 2016.

All NFL teams draw up multiple possible mock drafts leading up to their pick # slot.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Two positions that we know for sure that Mayhew/Caldwell have reflected on so far are WR and a pass rushing OLB... What player provides the most immediate impact at #10 or even in a trade up scenario ? How many WR's can do that in this draft and who are they ? Now, how many pass rushing LB's can do that in this draft and who are they ? What is the falloff from the skill-set in all the other players that are left to draft ? JMO, Watkins is that one WR and Mack is that one LB who they could get in a trade up versus waiting for a player to drop to them that meets their criteria (Mack is the one who Mayhew nor anyone else from the organization has spoken about, there's your Smokescreen by all the Watkins talk when maybe it's really all about Mack). Is Mack that much better in Mayhew's eyes, an elite prospect that provides an immediate impact than say Shazier or VanNoy, who in the fans eyes are players we would target.

We all have read articles pertaining to the need for a 3rd WR.

Detroit Lions want an edge-rushing LB, but they don't seem to have one | Detroit Free Press | freep.com... Lions need a edge rushing LB

NFL draft order released: Detroit Lions' Martin Mayhew says there are not 10 elite prospects | Detroit Free Press | freep.com... Mayhew says there are not 10 Elite prospects...

 

[Cleaves2000]

I been crying for years to get more defense....but im actually seeing what lionstop is saying...adding a player like watkins will give us a great offense....youth at the position....and insurance for CJ....i know i got sick of watching durham be the number 1.....plus we shouldnt have to draft a WR high for awhile...

I would love a CB....but everyone on here talks how it takes a few years for a CB to learn...lets say we draft gilbert or dennard....once hes good....will we still have CJ in his prime? Uninjured? What if the offense falls apart by the time the CB is ready.....my point is, hes not going to help from get go with next years team....another year of trial by fire...just like slay...

I dont want donald....our DL is fine right now....if after the year we lose all of em....then next years draft will focus on the next stud DT....but were fine for 2014....maybe a pick in the middle rounds....


I think the lions should take a player who can help in 2014....an impact player....im ok with trading up for watkins as long as we dont have to give up a future first....

I think tate would be a beast in the slot with watkins and CJ on the outside....when we go to 2 WR sets, tate can start over watkins.....just move him to slot in 3 WR sets..

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

By that same logic Evans is only "slightly" bigger than Watkins, so I don't see what all the fuss over Watkins' height is all about?

The reason I say Watkins is only slightly bigger than Tate is the fact -- while Watkins is 3 inches taller -- Tate has a higher vertical to make up for most of the 3 inch difference in height.

Evans is already 4" taller than Watkins and has a better vertical than Watkins by 3 inches. It is why I had said -- If Watkins had a 40"+ vertical, I could see him being a definite #1 WR in the future. How many balls a year do you see Calvin Johnson win contested balls in the air where he jumps over one, two and sometimes three defenders to make a catch?

I've already said -- I would be willing to eat my words if I'm wrong, but I think Watkins is going to be most successful playing in the slot using his quickness to get open.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I would love a CB....but everyone on here talks how it takes a few years for a CB to learn...lets say we draft gilbert or dennard....once hes good....will we still have CJ in his prime? Uninjured? What if the offense falls apart by the time the CB is ready.....my point is, hes not going to help from get go with next years team....another year of trial by fire...just like slay...

Our offense is all signed for multiple years -- Bush has 3 more years on his deal, Bell has three more years on his deal, Calvin has 4 or 5 more years on his deal, Tate has 5 years left on his deal, Pettigrew has 4 years left on his deal, Stafford has a lot of years left on his deal (not sure how much). Same goes for Warford and Reiff. The one player on offense who is gone next year most likely is Raoila.

So our offense is going to be good for quite a few years. Do we pass up an elite talent at CB because a lot of CBs struggle their rookie season or do we add an elite talent to the position, who even though they may struggle their rookie year, will still be better than the CBs we have on our roster right now.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

LG Sims is a UFA in 2015 and Reiff is a UFA in 2016


Raiola stated publicly he wanted to play 2 more years. Whether he is allowed to is another question

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

LG Sims is a UFA in 2015 and Reiff is a UFA in 2016


Raiola stated publicly he wanted to play 2 more years. Whether he is allowed to is another question

Sims is easily replaced, as you can get a quality Guard without spending a 1st round pick, as most Lions fans know first hand by taking Warford in the 3rd last year and him being a tremendous player.

Raiola -- Unless he puts up a year like he did last year -- I think he is on his last legs with the team. Center is another position you can find a quality replacement in the 3rd or 4th round.

Skill position wise -- we have every player locked up for multiple years with the exception of the 3rd WR spot. That is what I was getting at with my post.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Skill position wise -- we have every player locked up for multiple years with the exception of the 3rd WR spot. That is what I was getting at with my post.

If we are talking about finding replacements -- Detroit may have to replace both DT spots, if Fairley and Suh both test FA. Neither player is going to be franchise tagged, as Suh would cost a king's ransom to do so and Detroit isn't going to tag Fairley after turning down a 5.5 million dollar team option.

Tulloch is going to be 30 before the end of this next season. Chris Houston is 30. Ihedbigo is 30.

So Detroit is going to need to find replacements for quite a few positions defensively, especially if the lose Suh and Fairley.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I heard something hilarious today on sports radio. A lions fan called and said the Lions should trade Suh to Oakland for the 5th pick and draft Watkins, if he is still on the board. He then said -- with the 10th pick, Detroit should draft Mike Evans.

He wanted to not only trade away our best defensive player -- he wanted to use, not one, but two top 10 picks to draft WRs.

Just think -- Detroit could go 4 wide all game with Calvin Johnson, Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins and Golden Tate.

 

[gandydancer]

Sims is easily replaced, as you can get a quality Guard without spending a 1st round pick, as most Lions fans know first hand by taking Warford in the 3rd last year and him being a tremendous player.

Raiola -- Unless he puts up a year like he did last year -- I think he is on his last legs with the team. Center is another position you can find a quality replacement in the 3rd or 4th round.

Not sure about easily replacable. Warford was a steal. Doesn't mean it is easy to find them. I do like taking a G or G/T guy in 4th with comp pick. Let him replace Sims next year.

They should have a chance to get a very quality C in 3rd this year. Love to have Richburg. Letting Sims and Raiola go save towards next years cap.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not sure about easily replacable. Warford was a steal. Doesn't mean it is easy to find them. I do like taking a G or G/T guy in 4th with comp pick. Let him replace Sims next year.

They should have a chance to get a very quality C in 3rd this year. Love to have Richburg. Letting Sims and Raiola go save towards next years cap.

Yeah --using the word 'easily' was a bit much. I should have said easier to replace than most positions without using one of your top draft picks. You can find quality Centers and Guards in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

I agree with you on Richburg, if he is available in 3rd and Detroit hasn't traded away the pick to move up in the 1st round -- they should definitely take him. Give him a year to get acclimated to the Lions offense and then take over for Raoila next year, or if by some chance, he just takes the position from Raoila this year, I'd be fine with that too.

 

[LPinSLC]

The OL situation if Matthews or Robinson were to fall to us would be hard to pass. As someone else stated they'd be immediate starter. Waddle would become a back-up but that wouldn't be horrible outside of slowing his development. Hilliard is a FA in 2015 thus Waddle is the swing tackle, not bad as we know he can hold his own and he's a lot cheaper, like 900k, than Hilliard.

The price is exactly the point. We strike gold on an undrafted, more than capable RT. Shouldn't we utilize that from a financial standpoint as well? Most people have concerns about the cap. Do we really want to draft a more expensive replacment? A replacement that I don't even feel is needed. We have the opportunity to save money with Waddle, why not capitalize on it?

 

[jdwills126]

I would like to hear your argument about how adding an additional O-lineman is the same as adding a 3rd WR. I don't agree at all but maybe I can be persuaded.

First I would take Mack or Barr before a WR or OT. I think a strong pass rush helps the defense more than a OT or WR helps the offense.

With that being said the talent between a Lewan, Matthews, or Robinson and Waddle is greater than the difference between whoever they have and whoever they get for the #3 slot. Even if Watkins is #3 this year. The Lions only have so many passes to throw and CJ, Tate, Fauria, Pettigrew, Bush, and Bell will get their share.

If we are talking future Watkins has great upside but I think the Lions play for this season and not when CJ starts to decline. Lewan, Matthews, or Robinson can have the same upside at LT in the future and make a greater impact year one than a #3 receiver. And yes thats what Watkins is as a rookie. Rookies WR don't normally have huge impacts and with CJ and Tate, Watkins would not be the focal point.

As good as Waddle played last year he is far from cemented into permanent role.

 

[Rollingthndr]

I been crying for years to get more defense....but im actually seeing what lionstop is saying...adding a player like watkins will give us a great offense....youth at the position....and insurance for CJ....i know i got sick of watching durham be the number 1.....plus we shouldnt have to draft a WR high for awhile...

I would love a CB....but everyone on here talks how it takes a few years for a CB to learn...lets say we draft gilbert or dennard....once hes good....will we still have CJ in his prime? Uninjured? What if the offense falls apart by the time the CB is ready.....my point is, hes not going to help from get go with next years team....another year of trial by fire...just like slay...

I dont want donald....our DL is fine right now....if after the year we lose all of em....then next years draft will focus on the next stud DT....but were fine for 2014....maybe a pick in the middle rounds....


I think the lions should take a player who can help in 2014....an impact player....im ok with trading up for watkins as long as we dont have to give up a future first....

I think tate would be a beast in the slot with watkins and CJ on the outside....when we go to 2 WR sets, tate can start over watkins.....just move him to slot in 3 WR sets..

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is.... Why sign a fullback,resign J.Bell and Pettidrops who is mainly a blocker if you weren't trying to set up a running game. Trading up and getting Watkins would mean you would have to sit Tate half the time. What is the point of giving a guy 5 million a year to sit on the bench?

 

[Rollingthndr]

For all the talk about OL.

I would have to imagine most of the Lions fans here would be stoked if Matthews somehow fell to #10 and the Lions picked him.