Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[tpaulus_2]

I like Ross as the 4th but I'm not super high on him to the point where I dont think you can upgrade over him. He had plenty of opportunity to show what he had and didn't do much besides special teams.

Absolutely, he's nothing more than a depth slot WR at this point. But he's got the tools and youth to grow into a good slot guy for us. He's got that RB build that seems to be so successful working the underneath stuff and then making yards after the catch.

Definitely can improve on him though. I'd be thrilled if we drafted two WRs and he was pushed back to our #5 WR. I think that would be a sign that we're in good shape again at the position, or at least headed the right way...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I dont like Donald's measurables. He might get chewed up in the run game. I do know that he's a good player though and one of the top linemen but I think 10 is a little high.

Sapp was 1 3/8" taller than Donald and the same weight when coming into the NFL. Possessing the instincts that Donald has is rare to find. Fairley was a 1 year wonder for Auburn's championship team. I'd rather have a player who fights through every single play than to see someone like Fairley consistently take plays off.

We just have a different opinion and there's nothing wrong with that..

BTW, the Lions offense went 20 quarters without scoring a single point out of the total 64 quarters for the regular season. I know all the drops, fumbles, pressures etc. Still, that is an awful lot.

 

[lionstop1]

Its a tricky situation with Fairley. How do you think his effort will be they draft Donald? Lions would basically be saying that they are done with him.

The thing is; the Lions can still offer an extension throughout the season if he is playing good. It would probably offer performance incentives to avoid over paying. Mayhew voided that option not only to teach Fairley a thing or two, but to offer a better deal down the road.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I dont like Donald's measurables. He might get chewed up in the run game. I do know that he's a good player though and one of the top linemen but I think 10 is a little high.

Size-wise he's pretty well a clone of Geno Atkins, arguably the best DT in the NFL right now.

Run-stuffing won't be his specialty, but we also have to consider that he won't be seeing any double-teams next to Suh, and he'll have two over-sized DEs rotating in next to him in Jason Jones and Devin Taylor, who are both good against the run. Imo, it's a match made in heaven, and we'll regret passing on him in favor of a Clinton-Dix, Barr, Gilbert, or Dennard, etc... Don't get me wrong- I like each of those players and think they'll all be quality defensive starters. However, if we're going with a defensive prospect at #10 and Clowney and Mack are (obviously) long gone, then I think Donald is the next best defensive prospect in the class.

 

[lionstop1]

You're right about Sapp. You and TP are pretty knowledgeable so I wont argue there. Donald just isn't my favorite at 10, thats all. If the Lions felt he was the guy, I would roll with it until I see something I dont like.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Its a tricky situation with Fairley. How do you think his effort will be they draft Donald? Lions would basically be saying that they are done with him.

The thing is; the Lions can still offer an extension throughout the season if he is playing good. It would probably offer performance incentives to avoid over paying. Mayhew voided that option not only to teach Fairley a thing or two, but to offer a better deal down the road.

If we draft Donald I'd hope we're able to trade Fairley for a mid 2nd rounder, or maybe a 3rd this year and a 3rd next, or something in that relative value range.

If we don't trade him I think his effort will be top-notch because he gets to hit the open market as an un-restricted free agent after this season. That's a huge incentive for him to perform.

While you're right that we can offer him an extension at any point, we'd have to over-pay by a good chunk to do so- there's no way he's taking a team-friendly deal when there's nothing at all to stop him from selling his services to the highest bidder 11 months from now...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Its a tricky situation with Fairley. How do you think his effort will be they draft Donald? Lions would basically be saying that they are done with him.

The thing is; the Lions can still offer an extension throughout the season if he is playing good. It would probably offer performance incentives to avoid over paying. Mayhew voided that option not only to teach Fairley a thing or two, but to offer a better deal down the road.

Let's see. Pay Fairley 4+ mil a year on a new contract and then watch him return to being the same player as before or draft Donald and his contract would be 4 years at just slightly over 12 mil total. I rest my case.

Maybe Fairley is the lazy defensive player wanting some quick one-time cash similar to JaMarcus Russell. The only difference is the amount of money the two reaped. Both are lazy.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You're right about Sapp. You and TP are pretty knowledgeable so I wont argue there. Donald just isn't my favorite at 10, thats all. If the Lions felt he was the guy, I would roll with it until I see something I dont like.

He's my favorite if we stand-pat at #10, with Evans being a very close 2nd, but I don't see Evans lasting to #10 with the way things are shaping up. That's just my opinion, but I think he gets scooped up before we get the chance. If Evans and Watkins are gone then we have to go defense, imo (unless Matthews or Robinson somehow drop) and I can't see Gilbert, Clinton-Dix, Barr, Dennard or Pryor making the same impact, either right away or over the course of a career, as Donald. I think Clinton-Dix will have the next best career, but isn't a top-flight safety prospect, imo. Pryor will be solid, but doesn't offer enough in coverage for my liking. Both CBs I feel will be good starters, but I don't see either ever being special, either. Barr has the ability to be a monster, but is also the biggest gamble out of these guys.

Just my opinions, though...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

If we draft Donald I'd hope we're able to trade Fairley for a mid 2nd rounder, or maybe a 3rd this year and a 3rd next, or something in that relative value range.

If we don't trade him I think his effort will be top-notch because he gets to hit the open market as an un-restricted free agent after this season. That's a huge incentive for him to perform.

While you're right that we can offer him an extension at any point, we'd have to over-pay by a good chunk to do so- there's no way he's taking a team-friendly deal when there's nothing at all to stop him from selling his services to the highest bidder 11 months from now...

I highly doubt that. If you get a 3rd round back for him in a trade. Be happy. Now, requesting a 2nd round or a 3rd this year and next is totally different because you're asking and not Demanding. JMO.

I'd rather save 2-3 mil a year, if not more, by getting rid of or trading Fairley, drafting Donald who is already known for having an extremely good work ethic and paying him an avg of 3 mil a year than to risk Fairley going back to his non-motivated self after acquiring that 2nd contract.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I highly doubt that. If you get a 3rd round back for him in a trade. Be happy. Now, requesting a 2nd round or a 3rd this year and next is totally different because you're asking and not Demanding. JMO.

I'd rather save 2-3 mil a year, if not more, by getting rid of or trading Fairley, drafting Donald who is already known for having an extremely good work ethic and paying him an avg of 3 mil a year than to risk Fairley going back to his non-motivated self after acquiring that 2nd contract.

I think Fairley has good value still- he hasn't been a total flop by any means, he just hasn't fulfilled his potential, either.

I think he can still be a great DT, but by declining his option Mayhew pretty much stamped his ticket out of town, unless we plan on franchising him next year to basically put him on another one-year "prove it" deal. But that would be pretty damn expensive, especially considering the huge contract Suh is about to get...

 

[lionstop1]

The reason I say Gilbert is because I like the idea of pairing him with Slay, as you like Donald and Suh. To me, assuming that Slay comes on as a legit #2, and Gilbert as the #, they can potentially have one of the better young tandem in the league. Houston becomes the guy they can move around, while offering leadership too. I see it similar to how I view adding Watkins to Tate and CJ.

I think we need Gilbert's speed and big play ability out there.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I think Fairley has good value still- he hasn't been a total flop by any means, he just hasn't fulfilled his potential, either.

I think he can still be a great DT, but by declining his option Mayhew pretty much stamped his ticket out of town, unless we plan on franchising him next year to basically put him on another one-year "prove it" deal. But that would be pretty damn expensive, especially considering the huge contract Suh is about to get...

Franchising him next year would cost in excess of 8.5 mil. That is not going to happen. I think he needs a new environment, LIKE IN DALLAS for their this years 3rd. Outside of Henry Melton, they don't have much outside of a couple 2nd year guys. He still has some value though. I just don't like players who won't take a once in a lifetime opportunity and make it work. Strictly my opinion. Agree that declining his option pretty much signifies an ADIOS coming whether it's in a trade or just let him play out this year and hopefully receive a 4th or 5th round comp pick in 2016, depending on signed/lost FA's next year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

The reason I say Gilbert is because I like the idea of pairing him with Slay, as you like Donald and Suh. To me, assuming that Slay comes on as a legit #2, and Gilbert as the #, they can potentially have one of the better young tandem in the league. Houston becomes the guy they can move around, while offering leadership too. I see it similar to how I view adding Watkins to Tate and CJ.

I think we need Gilbert's speed and big play ability out there.

I can totally see your point in those statements. Slay was a one year wonder in the SEC coming out of a 2 year JC or Community college versus Gilbert having spent 4 years at a Big 12 school. Advantage Gilbert, IMO, for that very reason. I saw the inconsistency in Gilbert's junior year, probably reading all his hype. I just don't see him providing an impact in his 1st 2 years as most rookie CB's don't. Long-term is another thing as it's a guess game as to what he'll actually do.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Size-wise he's pretty well a clone of Geno Atkins, arguably the best DT in the NFL right now.

Run-stuffing won't be his specialty, but we also have to consider that he won't be seeing any double-teams next to Suh, and he'll have two over-sized DEs rotating in next to him in Jason Jones and Devin Taylor, who are both good against the run. Imo, it's a match made in heaven, and we'll regret passing on him in favor of a Clinton-Dix, Barr, Gilbert, or Dennard, etc... Don't get me wrong- I like each of those players and think they'll all be quality defensive starters. However, if we're going with a defensive prospect at #10 and Clowney and Mack are (obviously) long gone, then I think Donald is the next best defensive prospect in the class.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Denver's D was worse than ours last year and they made a run to the SB. So it can happen. Now granted, their offense was better, but ours can get there too. Theirs was led by a future first ballot HOFer IMO. Ours is led by a QB that still has things to work on, but one that will be very good IMO.

I agree it can happen, if you have one of the truly elite QBs.

Manning has got to the Super Bowl a couple times with an average defense -- the year he finally won it though, they had a really good defense.

Brady got there quite a few times, but when NE was winning all the time, they had a top 10 defense. Not sure where they finished in 2001, but in 2003 they were the #1 scoring defense in the NFL and 2004 they were #2 in scoring defense.

When Manning won his Super Bowl -- It was when Indy had finally turned a corner with their defense and that is what led them to the Super Bowl, sans the game where Brady and Manning faced off against each other. They gave up 8 points in round 1, 6 points in round 2 and 17 in the Super Bowl.

The year when GB and Aaron Rodgers won -- it was the year they had a top 5 defense and the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.

I'm not saying it is impossible to win a Super Bowl with an average defense, it happens. IMO, the Lions don't stand a chance though without adding some elite talent to their back 7. In today's NFL, where everyone is pass happy (but Seattle), Detroit would have to beat teams 38-35 every game, especially if they had to face an elite QB -- which is likely with Brees and Rodgers in their conference.

If they get to the Super Bowl -- who would be waiting for them? Manning or Brady? This is the #1 reason why I have said repeatedly. If Detroit's goal is to just get to the playoffs -- I'm all for trading picks to draft another weapon for the offense, because Detroit will win enough games against team without enough fire power to match Detroit. The problem is -- those teams won't be in the playoffs.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I dont like Donald's measurables. He might get chewed up in the run game. I do know that he's a good player though and one of the top linemen but I think 10 is a little high.

One thing about so-called shorter Linemen. Most are able to sink their hips better, have a much better pad level, thus creating a stronger more volatile push. Donald has long arms, violent hands and the moxie to play extremely physical at the line plus a very quick burst on his initial step.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

What makes those other QBs good at this is their ability to diagnose plays and get the ball where it needs to go. There is such thing as making players better but I wont discredit guys going out there and performing well above expectations either. Using your logic, Teams can just draft any WR if they have a good QB and they will suddenly become elite players.

I think Nate, Pettigrew and Young did/does benefit from Stafford. The RBs too. All the other Wrs suck so there is no way they magically become great players. Ross came from GB and he's nothing. Young left. Broyles is always injured. Durham is very very average (Maybe Manning could turn him into Decker). Edwards couldnt catch shit but I'm sure Brady would have him at pro bowl level. Williams sucked ass.

So why are we even acting as if Stafford has had all the opportunity in the world to make these guys good players? He gives Pettigrew plenty of looks and he has put up decent numbers but also struggled with thw drops. Nate had a good year previous to this one and started the season strong before getting hurt. Fauria played well. Stafford has been decent.

It isn't about turning an average player into an elite player. It is about turning an average player into a good player and a good player into an elite player.

I'm not saying they are drafting nobodies and turning them into Calvin Johnson, but they aren't spending top 10 picks on WR's. They are drafting WR's in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and beyond and they are putting up #1 WR numbers.

Take Eric Decker -- In his 28 previous games without Peyton Manning as his QB, he had 19 catches of 20+ yards. In 15 games with Manning, he had 19 catches of 20+ yards. In his previous 28 games, he had 4 catches of 40+ yards. In 15 games with Manning, he had 6 catches of 40+ yards.

Do you think Decker is going to have 25 catches over 20+ yards on New York this year? I'd wager he doesn't.

Manning doesn't have the arm that Stafford has, nor the mobility of an Aaron Rodgers. No one in the NFL is better at decision making though and his football intelligence and game preparation is off the charts.

The one thing that is consistent between guys like Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc. is they have tremendous accuracy. Maybe that is why Detroit wants to trade away picks for another WR, because they feel Watkins has the type of hands needed to catch some of the erratic throws by Stafford? Maybe that is why they went out and signed Golden Tate, who has some of the best hands in the NFL, because they feel he will help Stafford out with his hands. Who knows?!?!

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And I agree our defense has holes, but not taking a talent like Watkins or Evans simply to take any old defensive player is asinine. If we stay put at 10, you take the BPA. It will fill a need and get us a bonafide young star-to-be. Whether that BPA is offense or defense I don't care. That's the difference between some of the posters here.

I have my favorites I'd like to see selected, but won't be upset if it goes a different direction.

I'm not going to get upset if they trade away picks to draft a WR -- I will actually get a good laugh out of it. Now if they had kept it a secret and then traded up on draft day -- I would probably be upset. Maybe they let the cat out of the bag so early about their interest in Watkins, so the fans can get all their anger out now and by draft day, it won't be a big deal.

As far as the BPA approach -- I'm fine with that. If Evans or Watkins fall to 10 and Detroit feel they are the best player available -- go for it. It is the trading away picks that I despise.

Lastly -- Detroit is drafting 10th overall, so no matter who they pick, it isn't going to be any old defensive player. They are going to get a tremendous talent, no matter what position they draft. Saying any old defensive player makes it sound as if the only two elite talents in the draft are Watkins and Evans.

 

[lionstop1]

To me, the argument would be much different if the Lions were sitting at 20 and was trying to get to 11 or 15 to take a player like Beckam. It would also be different if they were at 25, trying to get to 2. They are right outside of where the elite prospects are so it makes sense to try and get one.

 

[lionstop1]

Isn't reasonable to think that a lot of the teams picking in the top 5 would love to trade down and receive offers they cant refuse if the value is there? These teams covet the elite guys as well but often have so many needs that trades become just as important.

Isn't it reasonable to think that teams who are sitting just beyond the elite players would love to find a way to get them? They keep saying how Atlanta wants to move up for Clowney.